Shisami managing to land even one shot at Piccolo is BS

[buutenks]

The movie simply isn't adhering to "traditional" fan-upheld notions regarding group battles and power level differences. I personally find it refreshing.

Piccolo fights hundreds of random mooks while intentionally holding back enough strength/effort to NOT kill them, and as a result is tired enough that a particularly strong mook can actually land a few blows.

If, like, a chipmunk attacked a pro MMA fighter, obviously he could smack it away pretty easily. But if one or two HUNDRED chipmunks swarmed him, after fending them off he'd be tired, and have a harder time dealing with the badger they called in as backup.

Ye its called nerf and jobbing.Word frequently used for comic characters.

Unless he's got the stamina of skinny or fat gotenks,then ye would make sense.

[ZombieVito]

According to people who watched the film:

- Piccolo and Shisami trade blows. Shisami has an advantage.
- Piccolo uses a Makankosappo and Shisami dodges it.
- Shisami then K.O's an unguarded Piccolo.
- SSJ Gohan comes and K.O's Shisami.
- Freeza and Sorbet get surprised by that.

By this we can conclude:

a) Shisami is indeed stronger than Piccolo.
b) They are equal but since Piccolo is not at 100% (80-90%) he lost.
c) Piccolo is stronger but is so tired (<1%) that a Zarbon level guy K.O's him.

Take your pick, I personally go with option B.

[AvatarReiko]

The invading Saiyan teams weren't concerned with restraining themselves to avoid killing their enemies.

Should we assume that, when Nappa and Vegeta landed on Earth on that city, if 300 humans from that city decided to attack Nappa and Nappa decided to fight them hand to hand and knock them out, without killing them, he would spend more energy and stamina doing it than he spent with the huge explosion he created that destroyed the entire city and was felt in the entire planet?

I don't see why it takes more stamina and energy to knock out a few hundred fighters who are just fodder than to blow up huge areas with everything and everyone in it, including the same or an even greater number of fighters. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I agree entirely. Apparently, I will expend a lot of my energy crushing an entire colony of ants with my boot. But After doing it, I am going to be so tired that a 5 year old will be able to beat me up.

[buutenks]

According to people who watched the film:

- Piccolo and Shisami trade blows. Shisami has an advantage.
- Piccolo uses a Makankosappo and Shisami dodges it.
- Shisami then K.O's an unguarded Piccolo.
- SSJ Gohan comes and K.O's Shisami.
- Freeza ans Sorbet get surprised by that.

By this we can conclude:

a) Shisami is indeed stronger than Piccolo.
b) They are equal but since Piccolo is not at 100% (80-90%) he lost.
c) Piccolo is stronger but is so tired (<1%) that a Zarbon level guy K.O's him.

Take your pick, I personally go with option B.

Or he has the stamina of skinny or fat gotenks ^^

[TheGmGoken]

Once again. They was fighting for 10 seconds. How could they be tired? Ssj2 Gohan fought Cell for at least 10 minutes and he got tired only after the clash. Pretty sure Gohan(who's stronger than present Gohan apprantly since no Mystic) put more effort against Cell than the Z fighters here.

The movie simply isn't adhering to "traditional" fan-upheld notions regarding group battles and power level differences. I personally find it refreshing.

Piccolo fights hundreds of random mooks while intentionally holding back enough strength/effort to NOT kill them, and as a result is tired enough that a particularly strong mook can actually land a few blows.

If, like, a chipmunk attacked a pro MMA fighter, obviously he could smack it away pretty easily. But if one or two HUNDRED chipmunks swarmed him, after fending them off he'd be tired, and have a harder time dealing with the badger they called in as backup.

Was Goku tired after fighting the ENTIRE Red Ribbon Army?
The chipmunk argument is weak because 1 chipmunk can kill a UFC fighter with it's claws. How about an ANT army versus a Dinosaur.

[ZombieVito]

10 seconds? People said the fight lasts like 10 minutes.

[TheGmGoken]

10 seconds? People said the fight lasts like 10 minutes.

10 seconds IN UNIVERSE time. Not screen time.

[ZombieVito]

That's just impossible.

[TheGmGoken]

That's just impossible.

From someone who saw the movie

At that time they didnt realize Freeza got more powerful, they only got scared after Freeza 1hit knocked out Gohan in base lol, actually it wasnt a knock out, it was a 1hit kill.
But hey at least they reached the 10 secs Freeza gave them because of Gohan, if he wasnt around it would have took them longer, but we are talking about Freeza here so he may just be an idiot when it comes to time

So they got tired after ten seconds?

Makes the hold tired or fatigue argument seem like bullshit honestly.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The whole "Piccolo getting tired from fighting mooks" argument is flawed. Thats like saying that Cell would get tired after fighting 1000 Yamchas.

Well that's flawed considering Cell is not a single being like Pics.

[FoolsGil]

Piccolo should've tanked that punch. What the heck.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Freeza, who was defeated by 2 Super Saiyans in the past, was surprised that Shisami was defeated by a Super Saiyan. This means that Shisami should be stronger than Mecha-Freeza was. If he was at Zarbon's level 4 months before the big fight, it means that Freeza wasn't the only one that trained hard.

[Dayspring]

fighting millions of people.

Yeah no.

No? Taking Earth as an average planet, just China alone has an army of over 2 million people, and that's just the army that they have at the ready... if there was a war they would summon lots of more able bodied men to fight, increasing that number by a LOT. Now imagine that it's not just China, it's the whole world fighting against an invader. Only, since this is happening on the Dragon World, an hypothetical world with a population close to that of an average planet like Earth wouldn't have just tech like we do in the real world to fight, but also fighters (with Ki) that, despite being pretty weak, are very numerous.

Are you suggesting that all the planets that those saiyans conquered were WAY less populated than Earth and all of them just had a a few thousands or hundred of thousands people in it? Because that's the only they wouldn't have to fight millions of people.

And if a large population is such a great of a factor, why did Saiyans and everyone else consider Earth to be an easy and weak planet? Even if Earth's average power is very small, by numbers alone they would be a challenge to any normal Saiyan by himself.

Dozens of years of planet conquering by several thousands of Saiyans led to only a few hundred planets being conquered. Vegeta also expected it to take him and Nappa about a month to conquer Earth and that's with book-ending the invasion with full-moon nights to speed things up.

Freeza, who was defeated by 2 Super Saiyans in the past, was surprised that Shisami was defeated by a Super Saiyan. This means that Shisami should be stronger than Mecha-Freeza was. If he was at Zarbon's level 4 months before the big fight, it means that Freeza wasn't the only one that trained hard.

Agreed.

[ZombieVito]

Freeza, who was defeated by 2 Super Saiyans in the past, was surprised that Shisami was defeated by a Super Saiyan. This means that Shisami should be stronger than Mecha-Freeza was. If he was at Zarbon's level 4 months before the big fight, it means that Freeza wasn't the only one that trained hard.

Pretty much this. I have no problem with a Zarbon level guy reaching Piccolo by training.

Freeza after all surpassed SSGSS Goku by training.

[rereboy]

Dozens of years of planet conquering by several thousands of Saiyans led to only a few hundred planets being conquered. Vegeta also expected it to take him and Nappa about a month to conquer Earth and that's with book-ending the invasion with full-moon nights to speed things up.

I wasn't suggesting that they would fight all the soldiers of the planet in one single go.

However, we can be sure that they wouldn't have battles against just 5 fighters every time they fought or something like that.

During that period, we can be sure they would fight many battles against (at the very least) thousands and thousands of soldiers many times.

Yet, the argument was that just a few hundred soldiers that even Roshi can beat are able to tire end of Z Piccolo so much that a Zarbon level fighter matches him.

So... if that happens with Piccolo, what would happen to Saiyans who are around Raditz's power? Obviously, it would very doubtful that they would have great success at conquering planets with just a few saiyans... Any battle against thousands of soldiers, even if they are very weak, would tire them immensely and leave them extremely vulnerable.

(Also, I have no idea where you got that number for the planets conquered by the Saiyans or the time period for Earth's conquest).

Pretty much this. I have no problem with a Zarbon level guy reaching Piccolo by training.

Freeza after all surpassed SSGSS Goku by training.

Freeza is pretty much implied in the manga to be the being with the highest natural power in the universe, which allowed him to "rule"for many decades without much fuss. Even though his increase in power in the movie is ridiculously extreme for just training, at least it ties into that notion of him being that much of a freak.

A random alien having a similar extreme power-up without any kind of tie-in to any notion of the manga, is much worse than ridiculously extreme.

[Lord Beerus]

Freeza, who was defeated by 2 Super Saiyans in the past, was surprised that Shisami was defeated by a Super Saiyan. This means that Shisami should be stronger than Mecha-Freeza was. If he was at Zarbon's level 4 months before the big fight, it means that Freeza wasn't the only one that trained hard.

Freakin this. If Resurrection F has shown anything, it's that the Saiyans and Freeza's race aren't the only the only genetic freak races in the universe that get strong in short spaces of time.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Freeza, who was defeated by 2 Super Saiyans in the past, was surprised that Shisami was defeated by a Super Saiyan. This means that Shisami should be stronger than Mecha-Freeza was. If he was at Zarbon's level 4 months before the big fight, it means that Freeza wasn't the only one that trained hard.

Freakin this. If Resurrection F has show anything, it's that the Saiyans and Freeza's race aren't the only the only genetic freak races in the universe that get strong in short spaces of time.

We know that Freeza & his dad aren't the only mutants out there, the Ginyu Tokusentai were mutants with extremely high power as well. We just saw what kind of gains mutants have through training (look at Freeza's gains!), so it isn't hard to believe that Shisami is a mutant as well (but not a prodigy at the same level as Freeza of course) who also hasn't done training before, and got monstrous gains through special training in a short time.

[supercat]

Hi, I'm new here!

Hopefully, we'll have some explanation as to how Shisami managed to obtain a power increase that would enable him to fight on par with Piccolo.

I know that it's been discussed that Sorbet was potentially referring to aspects other than power when comparing Shisami and Tagoma to Zarbon and Dodoria.

While this seems plausible and may actually be applicable towards other characteristics(leadership, strategy, etc), I think at the time when this comparison was made, strength or power was the primary feature that was being compared.

My reasoning for believing that is from the fact that Frieza quickly defeated Tagoma in his first form prior to training. It was also my understanding that Tagoma and Shisami were relatively on par with each other at the time; meaning both were probably under first form Frieza (prior to training) in terms of power.

[shonenhikada]

Hi, I'm new here!

Hopefully, we'll have some explanation as to how Shisami managed to obtain a power increase that would enable him to fight on par with Piccolo.

I know that it's been discussed that Sorbet was potentially referring to aspects other than power when comparing Shisami and Tagoma to Zarbon and Dodoria.

While this seems plausible and may actually be applicable towards other characteristics(leadership, strategy, etc), I think at the time when this comparison was made, strength or power was the primary feature that was being compared.

My reasoning for believing that is from the fact that Freeza quickly defeated Tagoma in his first form prior to training. It was also my understanding that Tagoma and Shisami were relatively on par with each other at the time; meaning both were probably under first form Freeza (prior to training) in terms of power.

So in short latest PL for characters:

Piccolo (22,000)
SSJ Gohan (530,000)
Golden Freeza (10 Quintilian)

[supercat]

Where did those numbers come from? I think the Frieza one was mentioned somewhere, but I imagine the others are a result of the Piccolo and Gohan holding back to match Frieza's men in power right? Regardless, even if that were the case, I always speculated that they can raise their power instantly (as Goku did against the Ginyu Force) on an as needed basis.

What I'm having a hard time believing is how Piccolo is unable to raise his power on the same as needed basis against someone Zarbon tier.