How strong is General Rildo?

[Hitiro]

I mean the intent behind Goku saying Uub is exactly what he was expecting, when we know Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation.

I think he was expecting Oob to be just as strong so he could get him to be a lot stronger. Just like how Freeza was so strong without training a day in his life so naturally training like Goku did would make him incredibly strong. I mean if you factor in Goku's training over the years Oob could get much stronger than Goku easily. That is what Goku is looking forward to. I don't necessarily think he was expecting Pure Boo levels of strength but enough innate strength that if Oob were to train he would be a hell of a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku given enough training.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation. Not just a random strong guy. What makes you think Goku would settle for any less than what he waited 10 years for?

[Hitiro]

Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation. Not just a random strong guy. What makes you think Goku would settle for any less than what he waited 10 years for?

Because anybody starting off in the millions without training is going to be a tough rival for Goku in the future. It's not really settling. Because Oob has a chance to grow into something much more than Pure Boo ever was.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation. Not just a random strong guy. What makes you think Goku would settle for any less than what he waited 10 years for?

Because anybody starting off in the millions without training is going to be a tough rival for Goku in the future. It's not really settling. Because Oob has a chance to grow into something much more than Pure Boo ever was.

That doesn't change what Goku was expecting. He was expecting to fight Pure Buu's reincarnation, and Uub is exactly what he expected. So I don't see any evidence for Uub being below Good/Pure Buu. Also, back to this:

The intent is simply it is anyone's chance if it is a tournament. It isn't supposed to be Good Boo >>>>> Oob or Oob >>>>> Good Boo. It is simply a statement that someone other than the them could win. Which is true. Because that is the way tournaments play out. Vegeta could win, Pan could win, Trunks could win, Boo could win, Goten could win, Oob could win or Goku could win. It has nothing to do with their strength. Only how the tournament plays out.

Not true. Goku explicitly says Pan won't win. Goten is shown upset he's paired up against Buu, if he has a way to win there's no reason he'd be shown upset. Pan or Goten aren't winning, and Trunks is most likely still within Goten's tier, status quo and all that jazz. So the intent isn't anyone can win the tournament. All it shows is Uub is above Good Buu and slightly above Base Goku. If there's someone besides Buu and them who can win, he's clearly in their general tier, or slightly stronger. You're just twisting it in a weird way to make it sound like he'll somehow win while being a lot weaker than Buu.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm going to be the dissenting voice here and say that Rildo is weaker than any form of Buu and probably weaker than Cell, and Goku was just full of it when he made that comment.

Of course that's probably just my irrational hatred of all things GT speaking.

[supercat]

I mean the intent behind Goku saying Uub is exactly what he was expecting, when we know Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation.

I think when Goku mentioned Uub is what he was expecting, I think it was a more generalized statement of being able to give him a good fight and actually proving to be a worthy opponent with large amounts of potential.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

And also expected Uub to be good enough to beat Good Buu in the tournament.. hence his statement about someone besides them or Buu winning.

[Hitiro]

And also expected Uub to be good enough to beat Good Buu in the tournament.. hence his statement about someone besides them or Buu winning.

As I said, you're placing too much value on what was said here. This is a tournament setting where any one of the super powered characters could have one. Oob doesn't necessarily have to be good enough to beat Mr. Boo. Otherwise you would have to make the assertation that Goku expected Pan, Trunks and Goten to be good enough to beat Mr. Boo.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku explicitly says Pan won't win. Goten is clearly upset he's up against Buu, so I don't see how 'anyone' could win. It's made clear Pan and Goten (presumably Trunks due nothing saying the gap between him and Goten changed) are not a threat for Goku (and Buu).

Otherwise you would have to make the assertation that Goku expected Pan, Trunks and Goten to be good enough to beat Mr. Boo.

Because...?

[Hitiro]

Goku explicitly says Pan won't win. Goten is clearly upset he's up against Buu, so I don't see how 'anyone' could win. It's made clear Pan and Goten (presumably Trunks due nothing saying the gap between him and Goten changed) are not a threat for Goku (and Buu).

Goten is upset he has to fight Boo in the first round. I'm sure he would have no problem fighting Boo if Boo had to go a round against Vegeta and was extremely exhausted. Goku said he supposes Pan wouldn't be able to win the tournament but she would definitely go far. So it isn't a definite possibility that Pan couldn't win the tournament. And for her to go far she would have to beat at least one of the guys from the Z-senshi anyway. I also agree that Goten and Trunks aren't a threat for Goku and Boo normally. If this was just a straight up fight then they obviously wouldn't have a chance. But this is a tournament not a straight up fight. Goku will have to fight Vegeta or Boo before he fights Goten or Trunks, possibly. And in that scenario Goku may well lose against them if Vegeta and Boo give him a good fight and exhaust him to the point where he can't beat one of them.

[supercat]

And also expected Uub to be good enough to beat Good Buu in the tournament.. hence his statement about someone besides them or Buu winning.

If we assume what Goku said was only in reference to Uub's power, then we should to take into consideration that Goku must have believed that Uub was possibly even more powerful than himself. The way I interpret what Goku said is that he was more so referring to the fact that there is another exceptionally gifted fighter who has entered the tournament.

It doesn't seem too likely that Good Buu was used as a comparison of power here, as it seemed like even Goku was uncertain of Uub's full potential.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goten is upset he has to fight Boo in the first round. I'm sure he would have no problem fighting Boo if Boo had to go a round against Vegeta and was extremely exhausted.

Buu has infinite stamina. The only time it goes down is from other Majins. That's shown/stated.

Goku said he supposes Pan wouldn't be able to win the tournament but she would definitely go far.

Going far isn't winning.

And I agree that Goten and Trunks aren't a threat for Goku and Boo normally. If this was just a straight up fight then they obviously wouldn't have a chance. But this is a tournament not a straight up fight. Goku will have to fight Vegeta or Boo before he fights Goten or Trunks, possibly. And in that scenario Goku may well lose against them if Vegeta and Boo give him a good fight and exhaust him to the point where he can't beat one of them.

But Buu has endless stamina unless fighting another Majin. They also have senzu beans, and when in a tournament has this "exhausted from the previous fight" ever been a problem?

If we assume what Goku said was only in reference to Uub's power, then we should to take into consideration that Goku must have believed that Uub was possibly even more powerful than himself. The way I interpret what Goku said is that he was more so referring to the fact that there is another exceptionally gifted fighter who has entered the tournament.

It doesn't seem too likely that Good Buu was used as a comparison of power here, as it seemed like even Goku was uncertain of Uub's full potential.

That's over complicating things. Goku expects someone stronger than himself and Good Buu, Uub is exactly what he expected. Saying Goku was expecting something else then what he says he was to Mr. Satan is conjecture.

[supercat]

Goten is upset he has to fight Boo in the first round. I'm sure he would have no problem fighting Boo if Boo had to go a round against Vegeta and was extremely exhausted.

Buu has infinite stamina. The only time it goes down is from other Majins. That's shown/stated.

Goku said he supposes Pan wouldn't be able to win the tournament but she would definitely go far.

Going far isn't winning.

And I agree that Goten and Trunks aren't a threat for Goku and Boo normally. If this was just a straight up fight then they obviously wouldn't have a chance. But this is a tournament not a straight up fight. Goku will have to fight Vegeta or Boo before he fights Goten or Trunks, possibly. And in that scenario Goku may well lose against them if Vegeta and Boo give him a good fight and exhaust him to the point where he can't beat one of them.

But Buu has endless stamina unless fighting another Majin. They also have senzu beans, and when in a tournament has this "exhausted from the previous fight" ever been a problem?

If we assume what Goku said was only in reference to Uub's power, then we should to take into consideration that Goku must have believed that Uub was possibly even more powerful than himself. The way I interpret what Goku said is that he was more so referring to the fact that there is another exceptionally gifted fighter who has entered the tournament.

It doesn't seem too likely that Good Buu was used as a comparison of power here, as it seemed like even Goku was uncertain of Uub's full potential.

That's over complicating things. Goku expects someone stronger than himself and Good Buu, Uub is exactly what he expected. Saying Goku was expecting something else then what he says he was to Mr. Satan is conjecture.

Goku would probably be impressed and even excited if someone Super Perfect Cell tier showed up at the tournament at this point. Considering how Goten, Trunks, Pan are all probably far weaker than Cell, it wouldn't surprise me that Goku would show excitement towards Uub even if he was at or even slightly below the level of Super Perfect Cell. Just the fact that he can encounter such a fighter at the tournament of all places and the fact that this fighter is Kid Buu reborn seems enough to excite him.

[Hitiro]

Goten is upset he has to fight Boo in the first round. I'm sure he would have no problem fighting Boo if Boo had to go a round against Vegeta and was extremely exhausted.

Buu has infinite stamina. The only time it goes down is from other Majins. That's shown/stated.

Right, but his point still stands. He didn't want to fight Boo in the first round. The issue for him was that he had to fight him in the first round. Whether that means his stamina was different now that he didn't have the evil portion inside of him or he genuinely thought that Boo's strength would somehow change over the course of the tournament is unclear.

Goku said he supposes Pan wouldn't be able to win the tournament but she would definitely go far.

Going far isn't winning.

You didn't read everything. Goku is assuming she wouldn't be able to win the tournament. He doesn't outright claim she couldn't. "I suppose she won't be able to win" is not "She won't be able to win." And as I said in my statement for her to even go far she would have to fight at least one of the Z senshi. So like I said it isn't set in stone. There is also the possibility she wouldn't have to fight anybody until finals. But for that she would have to be extremely lucky.

And I agree that Goten and Trunks aren't a threat for Goku and Boo normally. If this was just a straight up fight then they obviously wouldn't have a chance. But this is a tournament not a straight up fight. Goku will have to fight Vegeta or Boo before he fights Goten or Trunks, possibly. And in that scenario Goku may well lose against them if Vegeta and Boo give him a good fight and exhaust him to the point where he can't beat one of them.

But Buu has endless stamina unless fighting another Majin. They also have senzu beans, and when in a tournament has this "exhausted from the previous fight" ever been a problem?

When have they ever used Senzu beans in a tournament that the person hasn't already lost? That is cheating. Goku could have certainly brought Senzu beans to the 23rd Budokai to replenish his strength after each match. Same for the 22nd. He didn't because he doesn't want to cheat and have an advantage over the other fighters. I agree that Boo has endless stamina but if he is knocked out by Goku and then Goku fights Vegeta and somehow wins he may not have the strength to fight either Goten or Trunks. When has exhaustion from a previous fight in a tournament ever been a problem? Do you not remember SSJ Goku vs. Cell Jr.? Had he taken a Senzu then yes, he'd be fine. But he didn't. And because of that he was struggling like everyone else except for Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Right, but his point still stands. He didn't want to fight Boo in the first round. The issue for him was that he had to fight him in the first round. Whether that means his stamina was different now that he didn't have the evil portion inside of him or he genuinely thought that Boo's strength would somehow change over the course of the tournament is unclear.

No, I'm pretty sure he's upset about being against Buu in the 1st round is because he didn't want to lose in the 1st round. The issue wasn't just the 1st round, it was Buu and the 1st round.

When have they ever used Senzu beans in a tournament that the person hasn't already lost? That is cheating. Goku could have certainly brought Senzu beans to the 23rd Budokai to replenish his strength after each match. Same for the 22nd. He didn't because he doesn't want to cheat and have an advantage over the other fighters. I agree that Boo has endless stamina but if he is knocked out by Goku and then Goku fights Vegeta and somehow wins he may not have the strength to fight either Goten or Trunks. When has exhaustion from a previous fight in a tournament ever been a problem? Do you not remember SSJ Goku vs. Cell Jr.? Had he taken a Senzu then yes, he'd be fine. But he didn't. And because of that he was struggling like everyone else except for Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo.

Goku vs. Cell Jr? That's not an exhibition match. That's Cell torturing the Z fighters to anger Gohan. When in a Budokai has "exhaustion from the previous match" ever interfered with someone's ability to win?

[Hitiro]

Right, but his point still stands. He didn't want to fight Boo in the first round. The issue for him was that he had to fight him in the first round. Whether that means his stamina was different now that he didn't have the evil portion inside of him or he genuinely thought that Boo's strength would somehow change over the course of the tournament is unclear.

No, I'm pretty sure he's upset about being against Buu in the 1st round is because he didn't want to lose in the 1st round. The issue wasn't just the 1st round, it was Buu and the 1st round.

When have they ever used Senzu beans in a tournament that the person hasn't already lost? That is cheating. Goku could have certainly brought Senzu beans to the 23rd Budokai to replenish his strength after each match. Same for the 22nd. He didn't because he doesn't want to cheat and have an advantage over the other fighters. I agree that Boo has endless stamina but if he is knocked out by Goku and then Goku fights Vegeta and somehow wins he may not have the strength to fight either Goten or Trunks. When has exhaustion from a previous fight in a tournament ever been a problem? Do you not remember SSJ Goku vs. Cell Jr.? Had he taken a Senzu then yes, he'd be fine. But he didn't. And because of that he was struggling like everyone else except for Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo.

Goku vs. Cell Jr? That's not an exhibition match. That's Cell torturing the Z fighters to anger Gohan. When in a Budokai has "exhaustion from the previous match" ever interfered with someone's ability to win?

It still counts. He fought against Cell and was exhausted afterwards. To the point that he couldn't fight on par with a Cell Jr when Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo could. It may have been an unofficial tournament but he was exhausted. Same for when he fought Tenshinhan and lost to Tambourine afterwards. It interfered with his ability to win. Like I said. If Goku fought Tenshinhan first then any of the other Z-senshi could have won the tournament afterwards. Goku was exhausted after fighting Majin Vegeta too which is why he suggested they both took a Senzu and go fight Boo. Do you think that if Goku fought Vegeta in the tournament first that he'd be able to win against Mr. Boo? Doubtful. So it is possible that any of them could win the tournament given the right conditions. That's why he says "maybe someone other than us or Boo will win." Rather than saying "maybe someone other than me or Boo will win."

[supercat]

As I've said before, if we don't factor in BoG and FnF, then EoZ Uub is probably no where near Kid Buu. Without the SSG transformation, or special training from Whis, I find it very difficult to believe that Goku in his base form managed to reach a level that is on par with SSJ3 / Kid Buu.

If we do, however, assume EoZ takes off after FnF, then there is potential to put EoZ Uub's power much higher. As crazy as this sounds, it could very well be that he is at the very least around Final Form Frieza (not Golden), if not even stronger. This can sort of be supported by how well he fights against Goku, despite the fact that Goku was probably not going all out.