BoG/RoF = Manga Canon - Super = Anime Canon?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SUPER 6 - BOG's party segment without Vegeta dancing or the Pilaf gang trying to steal the Dragon Balls, making them useless for now. Cooking Vegeta is the only thing about this episode that seems Toriyamesque to me.

Kuririn is also treated as he was treated in the anime: a loser with the classic line "Why is it always me?". Fuck you Toei for treating Kuririn like that, stop making fun of him because he is a small guy.

[Bullza]

It sound to me that Toriyama is only involved in the 6th Universe story arc and the BOG and ROF retelling are handled only by Toei staff.

That's the impression that I have as well. Would Toriyama really want to retell his own story all over again after having just wrote it? Wouldn't Toei rather he spend the time writing something new instead?

I really don't think he wrote this Battle of Gods arc and I don't think he'll have wrote the Resurrection F arc either. He probably gave a few ideas towards it like why Goku ended up going to King Kai's planet but other than that it seems like it's Toei's adaptation of the Battle of Gods movie.

The Universe Six arc could be the follow up to both the Resurrection F arc and movie in a way.

[eledoremassis02]

I can't find it, but I think I saw on the main page a while ago where Akira Toriyama called the manga version his contribution to super. Tho he's not drawing it, is it more of "his" version than super, thus the SSJ3 Goku vs. Beeru being almost the same from the movie?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Universe Six arc could be the follow up to both the Resurrection F arc and movie in a way.

Well, it's not like the BoG arc has an entirely different story than the movie. Even though they changed lots of things, the story more or less remains the same: Beerus wakes up, he remembers about Super Saiyan God from his prophetic dream, the Oracle Fish confirms this, he & Whis go to Kaio's planet in order to find Goku and learn more about SSG, Goku challenges him & loses, then Beerus goes and finds Vegeta, Vegeta remembers him from the past, Bulma sees them and invites them to the party, where the Pilaf Gang is also present while trying to steal the DBs, Beerus has fun and almost gets annoyed, but Vegeta gets his attention by ridiculing himself, but eventually Boo makes him angry by refusing to give him putting, and the fight begins. The rest of it will apparently continue the same way: Everyone fails to do anything to Beerus after attacking him, Beerus hits Bulma & Vegeta surpasses Goku through his anger for a moment, Goku returns, he becomes a SSG after learning the way through the DBs, and he eventually made Beerus & Whis his friends after losing the fight, but he manages to absorb the power of SSG.

[Bullza]

Well what I mean is Battle of Gods and Resurrection F could be Toriyama's version of those movies and then the Universe 6 arc that he's writing would follow on from that but at the same time would also act as a follow on from the arcs in Super too.

Would that make it manga canon, anime canon or both?

The movie and Super have been similar up to yet but I'm interested to see how Pan is going to be handled. Is Super set the same year as BoG or before? Will Pan not be apart of the SSJG ritual or in the RoF arc? That could be the biggest change if she's not in there.

[Caulifor]

Well, I've always said there are several Dragon Ball continuities, and some of them are just more consistent than others. Here's how I look at the different 'canons':

1. Original Manga:

- Dragon Ball volumes 1-42 during its original run in Weekly Shonen Jump.

2. Updated Manga:

- Dragon Ball Minus
- Jaco the Galactic Patrolman
- Kanzenban Dragon Ball
- Dragon Ball Super manga

3. Original Anime:

- Bardock – The Father of Goku
- Episode of Bardock
- Dragon Ball anime
- Dragon Ball Z
- History of Trunks
- Dragon Ball Z movies
- Battle of Gods
- Resurrection 'F'
- Dragon Ball GT

This one is the most inconsistent of them all, but that's just what it is. Inconsistent. That doesn't mean it's not all part of the same thing. Of course, the biggest culprit in this case is Dragon Ball GT, but fillers also contradict several stuff from the main story, and so do the movies. To try and separate this canon into "consistent canons" would create at least three or four other canons so I don't even try.

4. Updated Anime:

- Dragon Ball anime
- Dragon Ball Kai
- Dragon Ball Super


Now, of course this doesn't mean something from canon X can never fit with canon Y. For instance, the Bardock Special fits perfectly with the Updated Anime canon, the same way you can watch Battle of Gods after reading the manga.

TL;DR: in short, no, I don't consider BoG and FnF part of the manga canon, as they are not... well, manga. Dragon Ball Super manga is part of the "updated manga" canon to me, and those two movies are continuations of the Dragon Ball Z anime (as their title implies). And as so many others here stated, the best thing to do is to just pick and choose whatever you like. I, for instance, completely ignore fillers, movies and GT. Oh, and DB Minus. I will always ignore DB Minus.

[DragonBallLove]

How I view the situation, from a franchise-as-a-whole/out-of-universe POV. Please feel free to criticize anything you consider wrong:

I'll use the terms "borrow" as in "taking inspiration, production values, or the like", "follow" to means "continues, story-wise" and "adapt" as "take the material as a base to make something new from a production viewpoint".

Spoiler:

First came the manga by Akira Toriyama.
It was firstly adapted into an anime called Dragon Ball. The DB movies borrows loosely from DB manga/anime.
DBZ adapts the second part of manga, and follows the first DB anime.
Father of Goku was always intended as part of DBZ.
DBZ Movies borrow from DBZ but don't follow it as a whole.
EoB follows Father of Goku but is separated from DBZ as a production.
GT follows DBZ. The 10th Anniversary is stand-alone, but if anything, is related to GT. Goku Gaiden follows GT.
BoG-RoF follows "Dragon Ball" as a whole franchise, or if you want it this was, follows nothing, as they are "stand-alone". It both borrows from the manga and the DBZ anime.
Kai borrows heavily from both manga and DBZ.
Super follows Kai.
Both BoG-RoF and Super seems to adapt the original Toriyama draft, mentioned somewhere as "a heavy bunch of paper" or something, IIRC?
Jako and Minus predates the manga story-wise, but follow it production-wise. Toriyama's Minus, in a delicious case of backwards inspiration, borrows from FoG (and maybe EoB and/or its own work with Masked/Evil Bardock in DBO?).
Supplementary manga are closely related to the original productions (EoB, Super, anything made by Oishii, Toyotaro, etc.), and can be viewed as adaptations of the former.
Most games borrow and adapt heavily from DB, DBZ, DBGT and in lesser extent (i.e. Super DBZ) the manga. Xenoverse, aside from adapting the aforementioned animated productions, borrows and also from DBO, who borrows mainly from the manga but also from the anime/Bardock special (baby Goku, Bardock, etc.).

Each GT, DBO, BoG, and Super have some kind of Toriyama involvement in diverse grade, from the main character sketches in GT case to undetermined amount of involvement in the other projects. What about Yo Son Goku & Friends??? I don't remember Toriyama's involvement, can someone please clarify?

Story-wise, the only solution is assuming there as many timeline as DB productions exists. The only pairings that would be a necessity are the ones relating backward stories, as Episode of Bardock requiring Father of Goku; this doesn't made EoB canon to FoG, even if the contrary is true (FoG being canon for EoB). That's the extent we can use the word "canon" in DB. Direct reference. And not even being part of the timeline; GT is canon to Xeno as a particular timeline, for example. Dragon Ball Heroes takes the whole franchise as a canon as of yet, discounting what, Minus? Give it time, I say. But you can't say retroactively that "everything is now canon because of Heroes"; that would be absurd. This canon topic seems to be a one-way direction, need-based thing, rather than a feedback-between-productions coherent omniverse. Seeing it this way, there could be a general consensus of many canons established by two criteria:

a) Their production values; and
b) Their story-wise requirements (not retroactive).

Now, begin the bash, please.

[MCDaveG]

As Yo! introduces Tarble, BoG mentions him, then in respect to the anime and manga, for me, Yo! and BoG is superior for me in terms of a sequel and canon than Super.

[Absolute Ice]

As Yo! introduces Tarble, BoG mentions him, then in respect to the anime and manga, for me, Yo! and BoG is superior for me in terms of a sequel and canon than Super.

I don't think "respect" is the right word but I agree. Since Movie 14 accepts Tarble's OVA, I think it is better to consider more the movie over Dragon Ball Super, which doesn't add anything, nor even the Super Saiyan God's backstory. Of course, this is a "for-the-time-being" statement. Maybe Dragon Ball Super will cover the OVA and Tarble not only got mentioned but also appears.

[MCDaveG]

As Yo! introduces Tarble, BoG mentions him, then in respect to the anime and manga, for me, Yo! and BoG is superior for me in terms of a sequel and canon than Super.

I don't think "respect" is the right word but I agree. Since Movie 14 accepts Tarble's OVA, I think it is better to consider more the movie over Dragon Ball Super, which doesn't add anything, nor even the Super Saiyan God's backstory. Of course, this is a "for-the-time-being" statement. Maybe Dragon Ball Super will cover the OVA and Tarble not only got mentioned but also appears.

I don't have high hopes for Super at this point, seeing what they've done with the possibilities they had, it's a completely wasted and unnecesary show in my opinion.

[Sandubadear]

The idea of a "manga canon" and "anime canon" doesn't even work when you mix movies, OVA, manga and anime in the "manga canon". It's better if you just say "This is Continuity 1, this is continuity 2".

[Bullza]

Well that's why I think there's a "Different dimension canon" as well which is where almost all of the Pre-BoG movies took place. The Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans has the movie villains and also refers to the first Broly movie so that could be part of the same canon. GT could take place in this dimension and Xenoverse did mention the Legendary Super Saiyan saga and GT saga's as being a part of some alternate timeline anyway.

There are a ton of other things as well. So it's not as simple as what I'm saying but just a general idea.

I do think Toriyama is probably only working on the Universe Six arc which he intends to continue on from the two new movies he did, so that is likely part of the manga continuity. The Battle of Gods and Resurrection F arcs of Super are possibly just Toei's take on it like how the History of Trunks movie differed from the manga chapter.

So as far as "canon" goes I'd say DB Minus, Jaco, Dragon Ball Vol 1-42, the Yo Son Goku story, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and the Universe Six saga of Super.

[eledoremassis02]

I do consider the Super manga manga cannon and it keeps some things in from BOG so it works for me