Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

[Blackstripe]

I can't see Vegeta's rage boost doing any significant damage to Buuhan, let alone completely outclass him like Vegito did. Rage boost Vegeta was just above SSJ3 Goku and Vegito was ridiculous far above SSJ3 Goku before even turning into a SSJ. So no, Vegeta didn't surpass Vegito with his rage boost.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the evidence isn't there.

Everything we've seen suggests Rageta surpassed Vegetto and thus, Buuhan.

What exactly suggests it? All we're given is the suggestion that Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, nothing about being stronger than Boohan or Vegito.

Did you not read the rest of this thread?

But fine, I will repeat it for you.

Beerus defeats SSJ3 Gokuu very casually with two light taps. From his comments about using somewhere close to 10% of his power against Vegeta, we know that he must have been using a good deal less than that there.

When Beerus arrives at the birthday party and the fighting begins, Ultimate Gohan - the man that completely trolled Super Buu - attempts to attack him, and is laughably disposed of by being hit with Mr. Buu, knocking him out of the fight.

GohanBuu MUST be less than half of Gohan's strength, there's no if's, and's or butt's about that.

And yet...Vegeta pushed Beerus far harder than any of them when he raged, and made him use more of his power than he had in a good long while. So Raging Vegeta MUST therefore surpass Ultimate Gohan at a minimum, and given how easily Beerus disposed of him, he must do so by a wider margin than GotenksBuu surpassed Gohan, because he had to actually try a bit in order to defeat him.

Understand?

[mikey4111]

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the evidence isn't there.

Everything we've seen suggests Rageta surpassed Vegetto and thus, Buuhan.

We only know that Rageta surpassed Goku, that's it.[/quote]
Dragonball Super

Beerus stated he used 10% power against Vegeta but not against another other fighter. He does compare his efforts against Raging Vegeta to his efforts against Goku Ssj3, implying Goku Ssj3 was the second strongest.

Nothing is said about Ultimate Gohan.

Battle of Gods

Beerus comments on Vegeta's fighting ability and the feats dictate Vegeta is even greater than Gohan by this point of time. Everybody is pleased to see Goku, thinking he could possibly save the day. Both Goku & Vegeta receive praise but Gohan receives none.

Nothing is said about Gohan.

In two releases that depict the same scenario, we've evidence to support Goku Ssj3 & Raging Vegeta Ssj2 to be superior to Gohan, not the other way around.[/quote]
When did I say they weren't superior to Gohan? Better yet, how does this have to do with Gohan? I didn't even bring him up.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Understand?

My interpretation of Vegito's strength doesn't violate anything seen in the series and neither does yours. But I think mine is more logical. Super Vegito is far and away stronger than SSJ3 Goku. He wouldn't have beaten Beerus, but he would have put up a good fight. Surely more than an unfused Vegeta.

[mikey4111]

Beerus defeated Rageta just as easily as he defeated Goku. Yes he had to use 10% of his power to swat Vegeta and knock him out but how do you know how much he had to use against Goku? If it was 5% even then Rageta isn't that much stronger then Goku and definitely isn't above Vegito.

[h0kuten]

Under the knowledge that Goku surpassed Ultimate Gohan by Dragonball Super, wouldn't Goku factor his own increases unto those of Vegetto? Meaning a DB Super Vegetto would be infinitely stronger than the Vegetto from the Majin Boo Saga?

[Saiyan007]

Why would Beerus use 5%?

He could have used 0.00000000000000000000000001% of his power vs Goku

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Under the knowledge that Goku surpassed Ultimate Gohan by Dragonball Super, wouldn't Goku factor his own increases unto those of Vegetto? Meaning a DB Super Vegetto would be infinitely stronger than the Vegetto from the Majin Boo Saga?

It more that Ultimate Gohan got weaker as opposed to Goku getting a lot stronger.

[Blackstripe]

Understand?

My interpretation of Vegito's strength doesn't violate anything seen in the series and neither does yours. But I think mine is more logical. Super Vegito is far and away stronger than SSJ3 Goku. He wouldn't have beaten Beerus, but he would have put up a good fight. Surely more than an unfused Vegeta.

Mikey4111 claimed they couldn't see Raging Vegeta defeating Buuhan, and I responded by explaining why he MUST be able to do so. That was the point of the post you were quoting.

And nobody is saying Rage!Vegeta would be stronger than Rage!Vegetto, just that he is stronger than a non-raging Super Vegetto. The reason is because SSJ3 Gokuu felt that a massively suppressed Beerus was too much for Super Vegetto, so at a minimum, Rageta must surpass the Super Vegetto we've seen.

Whether he surpasses any hypothetical forms that Vegetto may or may not have, is up for debate.

[mikey4111]

Under the knowledge that Goku surpassed Ultimate Gohan by Dragonball Super, wouldn't Goku factor his own increases unto those of Vegetto? Meaning a DB Super Vegetto would be infinitely stronger than the Vegetto from the Majin Boo Saga?

Even if Goku got stronger then Ultimate Gohan it still wouldn't be by much. Their gap in powers wouldn't be nearly big enough to make Vegito infinitely stronger then his Majin Buu saga counterpart.

[mikey4111]

And didn't Gohan get weaker? That's what caused the change between Goku and Gohan.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Why would Beerus use 5%?

He could have used 0.00000000000000000000000001% of his power vs Goku

that's a bit extreme. He would need more than that to beat Nail

[mikey4111]

Why would Beerus use 5%?

He could have used 0.00000000000000000000000001% of his power vs Goku

I'm saying we don't know.

[mikey4111]

Understand?

My interpretation of Vegito's strength doesn't violate anything seen in the series and neither does yours. But I think mine is more logical. Super Vegito is far and away stronger than SSJ3 Goku. He wouldn't have beaten Beerus, but he would have put up a good fight. Surely more than an unfused Vegeta.

I 100% agree. I don't see why this is even an argument.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Understand?

My interpretation of Vegito's strength doesn't violate anything seen in the series and neither does yours. But I think mine is more logical. Super Vegito is far and away stronger than SSJ3 Goku. He wouldn't have beaten Beerus, but he would have put up a good fight. Surely more than an unfused Vegeta.

Mikey4111 claimed they couldn't see Raging Vegeta defeating Buuhan, and I responded by explaining why he MUST be able to do so. That was the point of the post you were quoting.

And nobody is saying Rage!Vegeta would be stronger than Rage!Vegetto, just that he is stronger than a non-raging Super Vegetto. The reason is because SSJ3 Gokuu felt that a massively suppressed Beerus was too much for Super Vegetto, so at a minimum, Rageta must surpass the Super Vegetto we've seen.

Whether he surpasses any hypothetical forms that Vegetto may or may not have, is up for debate.

And I argue that the Vegetto we've seen is stronger than Vegeta. I see no reason to think that Goku was making the fusion statement in regards to 1% Beerus

[Blackstripe]

And I argue that the Vegetto we've seen is stronger than Vegeta. I see no reason to think that Goku was making the fusion statement in regards to 1% Beerus

Because that was the only Beerus he saw?

He can't sense Beerus' true power, and had no clue how strong he truly was. In fact, the show was making it a point of hiding how much he was using until his "anywhere near 10%" comment. That was the whole point of not being able sense the presence of deities.

[Herms]

Dragon team subs confirmed it. These are the subs that Herms always uses on his fact checker.

Herms translated the line differently well prior to the Dragon Team's sub.

According to his translation, Beerus stated this:

Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."

His translation, while still leaving it open that he wasn't precisely at 10%, still indicates that he was a good deal closer to the 10% mark.

Yeah, the term in question is 1割ぐらい/ichi-wari gurai, "approximately 10%" or "roughly 10%". I'd say "anywhere near 10%" gives slightly the wrong idea (in fact, strictly speaking 1割ぐらい/ichi-wari gurai could potentially mean a bit more than 10% as well as a bit less than 10%).

[mikey4111]

And I argue that the Vegetto we've seen is stronger than Vegeta. I see no reason to think that Goku was making the fusion statement in regards to 1% Beerus

Because that was the only Beerus he saw?

He can't sense Beerus' true power, and had no clue how strong he truly was. In fact, the show was making it a point of hiding how much he was using until his "anywhere near 10%" comment. That was the whole point of not being able sense the presence of deities.

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

[Blackstripe]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara an option after he DID see it.

[h0kuten]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara and option after he DID see it.

That's under the assumption that Goku considered a Raging Vegetto as well.

[Blackstripe]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara and option after he DID see it.

That's under the assumption that Goku considered a Raging Vegetto as well.

Well, I dunno about that. I mean, what were they gonna do? Fuse and then ask Beerus to slap around Bulma and Chichi? Beerus would've probably just blown up the solar system in disgust.