Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

[Kid Buu]

He was always kinda pointless really. Even at his most "relevant" moment, his debut, he was just serving as the Bacterian of the 22nd Budokai.

[precita]

The problem is Toei kept putting Chiaotzu in the openings, he's billed as a major character, and he does absolutely nothing. If Chiaotzu disappeared towards the end of Dragonball it'd be a different story.

I mean they always had Yamcha do things.

[Kid Buu]

Well, Toei did let him beat up Guldo.

[FoolsGil]

Well, Toei did let him beat up Guldo.

Yeah...Because Guldo conveniently forgot how to stop time. There was no reason for Chaozu to won that. That entire fight made no sense.

Why should I expand my speech? we all watch the same series, why should I explain the obvious?

Because... it's not obvious? Chaozu had a role to play and he played it. This entire thread is essentially Monday-morning quarterbacking, backseat driving, or whatever analogy you prefer. I never had a moment where I was watching/reading Chaozu and thought "wait, is that it?" as this thread seems to be implying it's outrageous he didn't do more.

If anything, the monkey Goku says "hi" to Chapter 1 was completely pointless after his debut. There being seven Dragon Balls instead of, say, five, is completely pointless. We would still get the gist of how the Dragon Balls work if there were only five of them. Do you see how arbitrarily and easily I am doing this?

While I can't speak as eloquent as Gaffer, but seeing as how two members request I speak, maddeningly enough, I might as well:

Chaozu had no role. He had no legacy. Here are his actions from cradle to grave.
-Be mirror image of Krillin with creepy powers.
-Fill in for Yamcha as Mr. Exposition for Tenshinhan's attacks
-Fade in the background until King Piccolo kills him.
-Fade in the background, Train offscreen, lose to Tao.
-Fade in the background, Train offscreen, lose to Nappa.
-Train offscreen dead, Fade in the background, then train offscreen alive for the rest of the series

Where is the legacy in that? How can anyone look at the list I written and say "Herp Derp All's well that ends well, anyone who wished Chaozu did more or never existed doesn't understand plot and story."

Puar, is a legacy character, because He has personality. He was Yamcha's straight man and has actually did more than stand around and listen. Oolong, same thing. Launch as well. You can even argue that Yajirobe is the greatest legacy character; he had more personality than the last three and was made twice as awesome in the anime. He was a cool mofo. How can any of you dissenters even place Chaozu in the same bracket as these guys?

There. Did you really need me to explain all that?

#legacy

[JulieYBM]

Why does Chaozu need to be an important character? He does what he was meant to do and was then useless to the author. That's okay, because Toriyama went off to write for characters he actually did like, which is the entire point of creating art.

[FoolsGil]

Why does Chaozu need to be an important character? He does what he was meant to do and was then useless to the author. That's okay, because Toriyama went off to write for characters he actually did like, which is the entire point of creating art.

Why does Chaozu need to be a character all? He does what he does with no lasting effects and placed in the background because of poor planning in the writing phase. That's okay, because Toriyama eventually learned not to waste his and everyone's time, but gee if only he learned that lesson years prior for his "art."

[B]

Why does Chaozu need to be a character all? He does what he does with no lasting effects and placed in the background because of poor planning in the writing phase.

But it isn't poor planning. It's never hinted at or promised that Chaozu would do more than he did. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. Chaozu needs to be a character for the same reason the log Goku rides in Chapter 1 needs to be a log, or why the Dragon Balls need stars on them instead of Zs. Some characters don't contribute as much as others. This has happened in every story that has ever been written since forever. I don't think anyone is arguing that Chaozu is this major figure that the series couldn't do without, but the conversation seems more and more fruitless. Is the series magically better if he doesn't exist, or isn't friends with Tenshinhan and is a one-off contestant at the 22nd Budokai? Why would it be better? Why would the series be better if Chaozu did more? And what would he do? Would our lives be significantly different changed if this tiny mime never came to be? You're screaming about the series' faults without offering any solutions. If it doesn't matter that Chaozu is there, then it equally doesn't matter if Chaozu's not there. What are we even discussing?

-Be mirror image of Krillin with creepy powers.

And to top it all off, what is wrong with this? Why isn't this enough? Who decides where the magical line or threshold is for "worthwhile contribution to the story?"

[FoolsGil]

Why does Chaozu need to be a character all? He does what he does with no lasting effects and placed in the background because of poor planning in the writing phase.

But it isn't poor planning. It's never hinted at or promised that Chaozu would do more than he did. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. Chaozu needs to be a character for the same reason the log Goku rides in Chapter 1 needs to be a log, or why the Dragon Balls need stars on them instead of Zs. Some characters don't contribute as much as others. This has happened in every story that has ever been written since forever. I don't think anyone is arguing that Chaozu is this major figure that the series couldn't do without, but the conversation seems more and more fruitless. Is the series magically better if he doesn't exist, or isn't friends with Tenshinhan and is a one-off contestant at the 22nd Budokai? Why would it be better? Why would the series be better if Chaozu did more? And what would he do? Would our lives be significantly different changed if this tiny mime never came to be? You're screaming about the series' faults without offering any solutions. If it doesn't matter that Chaozu is there, then it equally doesn't matter if Chaozu's not there. What are we even discussing?

If you didn't want to know my spiel, then don't ask next time and move on.

[DBZAOTA482]

I just noticed something...

Chiaotzu is the only human fighter who hasn't fought on par with Goku at any point... barring Mr. Satan and Videl, of course.

-Yamcha fought on par with him in the first Saga
-Jackie Chun and him were practically even in the 21st Budokai (one could argue Chun was a bit stronger)
-Krillin fought on par with his Match-level before he blitzed
-Tien fought on par with him in the 22nd Budokai and his Weighted self in the 23rd Budokai
-Yajirobe fought on par with him (even took his strongest kick)
-Chi-Chi fought on par with the suppressed Weighted Goku before he blasted her out of the ring

He sucks...

[s841]

It's sad because Chiaotzu looks pretty unique in terms of appearance at least..

[precita]

It's sad because Chiaotzu looks pretty unique in terms of appearance at least..

He looks like Mr. Mime crossed with Pikachu. And yes I'm aware Pokemon didn't exist at the time Chiaotzu was created.

[Kid Buu]

Well, Toei did let him beat up Guldo.

Yeah...Because Guldo conveniently forgot how to stop time. There was no reason for Chaozu to won that. That entire fight made no sense.

Wait, so you're upset that Toriyama didn't do anything with Chaozu, but also don't like how Toei threw him a bone?

[Saiga]

I agree with the sentiment that Chaozu is fine as he is. He is not a main character except by the most generous definitions - at which point calling anyone a main character loses all meaning.

He had a role in the 22nd Budokai that he served well. He was a minor opponent for Kuririn, he had an entertaining fight with him. All is well. Tenshinhan was the one who went on to have more importance, as he had his own character arc. I suppose Chaozu simply could have stayed loyal to the Crane Hermit and be written out of the series, but then Tenshinhan loses his friend. And they were quite literally made for each other, so would it be worth it? Making Chaozu leave with Crane Hermit clears up the misconception that more was to be done with him, but does it improve the series in any way? I don't think so at all. I think it's better to keep him with Tenshinhan, and there's no problem with the future role he played.

If he were to ever be written out I think that maybe he should have just stayed dead after the Saiyan arc. That would probably be a good place to write out Tenshinhan as well, the two of them training together in the best possible environment for it.

Why does Chaozu need to be a character all? He does what he does with no lasting effects and placed in the background because of poor planning in the writing phase.

But it isn't poor planning. It's never hinted at or promised that Chaozu would do more than he did. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. Chaozu needs to be a character for the same reason the log Goku rides in Chapter 1 needs to be a log, or why the Dragon Balls need stars on them instead of Zs. Some characters don't contribute as much as others. This has happened in every story that has ever been written since forever. I don't think anyone is arguing that Chaozu is this major figure that the series couldn't do without, but the conversation seems more and more fruitless. Is the series magically better if he doesn't exist, or isn't friends with Tenshinhan and is a one-off contestant at the 22nd Budokai? Why would it be better? Why would the series be better if Chaozu did more? And what would he do? Would our lives be significantly different changed if this tiny mime never came to be? You're screaming about the series' faults without offering any solutions. If it doesn't matter that Chaozu is there, then it equally doesn't matter if Chaozu's not there. What are we even discussing?

If you didn't want to know my spiel, then don't ask next time and move on.

B clearly DOES want to know, the problem is you're not explaining it or answering their questions at all.

[manwolf]

The problem with Chaozu is shared more or less with the rest of the humans, they train off-screen but they don't show the result of they training, Chaozu is only the character that have the worst.

Krillin shows the result of his training in the majority of the sagas, the exceptions are Cell and Buu saga, but in Cell he shows to fight and have some fight time and in Buu saga he have the strongest earthling moment and tries to fight Babidi.

Tien is the same as Krillin but the only saga that he doesn't show anything is in Buu saga with the same attack that the previous saga.

Yamcha begins the same as Krillin, but he are fodder in Cell saga and he retires in Buu saga.

Chaozu is worst that Yamcha, he doesn't fight in the finals of the 23 tournament and he also doesn't fight in Cell saga, two training that he does for nothing.

Yajirobai is the same but he at least doesn't training after saiyan saga.

[rereboy]

Chaotzu is fine as he is, but it would be good if he got more good development and relevance, pretty much like all Earthlings. As long it was good development, it could only improve Dragon Ball. Of course, if it wasn't good, it probably would only make Dragon Ball worse or basically the same.