I agree but Gokuu i mean both Kid and Adult when circumstances demanded would turn dead serious and drop their happy-go-lucky attitude. Hybrid Saiyan called Kid Gokuu stupid and compared him to Super's Gokuu which isn't correct.ABED wrote:Goku's lack of intelligence has always been a part of his character.My point was more towards you calling Kid Gokuu stupid which was not correct.
Yeah, however. I see signs of Kid Goku in Supers Goku but that's just from my prospective lol. Kid Goku was stupid during the earlier days of Dragon Ball, for example..when he thought a tv was a window lol. Maybe Naive is the main word i'm looking for though.Saikyo no Senshi wrote:I agree but Gokuu i mean both Kid and Adult when circumstances demanded would turn dead serious and drop their happy-go-lucky attitude. Hybrid Saiyan called Kid Gokuu stupid and compared him to Super's Gokuu which isn't correct.ABED wrote:Goku's lack of intelligence has always been a part of his character.My point was more towards you calling Kid Gokuu stupid which was not correct.
- Travis
OMG the art is so much better than anything in Super i almost forgot how good GT at least looked.fadeddreams5 wrote:SSJ4 Goku's demeanor in this one scene alone is the complete opposite of anything we've seen in Super from Goku:
https://youtu.be/r7GrjdTwyJY?t=1m1s
"You've gone too far. Your evil is too great. BABY!! *gut punch*"
Super's Goku would be more like:
"Heh, heh, heh. *Luffy face smirk* Baby, I'm sure you can do better than that! I'm just getting warmed up!"
*Que Baby with a generic anime anger vein in response*
On the contrary, Super making Goku a morally void bastard in every way, shape, and form is EXACTLY where Z was going with him. Even in his youth, Goku was far more heroic than his adult self who just became more selfish and Saiyan-like as things progressed. The last moment of common sense he had was when he told Gohan to kill Cell because they didn't want to see what he'd resort to once he (Cell) got desperate.GodKaio-Ken wrote:Well he did grow up basically alone after Grandpa-Gohan died. Naive is definitely the word...he has always been morally intelligent but obviously never went to real school of any sorts and was extremely laid back.
There is a lot of original Kid Goku in Super Goku IMO but it seems awkward because it doesn't quite match his progression through Z.
I meant in terms of how laid back he is now. In Z we saw serious moments where in DB and Super he's pretty relaxed no matter the situation. We havent seen a tense Goku yet.ekrolo2 wrote:On the contrary, Super making Goku a morally void bastard in every way, shape, and form is EXACTLY where Z was going with him. Even in his youth, Goku was far more heroic than his adult self who just became more selfish and Saiyan-like as things progressed. The last moment of common sense he had was when he told Gohan to kill Cell because they didn't want to see what he'd resort to once he (Cell) got desperate.GodKaio-Ken wrote:Well he did grow up basically alone after Grandpa-Gohan died. Naive is definitely the word...he has always been morally intelligent but obviously never went to real school of any sorts and was extremely laid back.
There is a lot of original Kid Goku in Super Goku IMO but it seems awkward because it doesn't quite match his progression through Z.
GT had him grow up, ironically and managed to make him far more mature without taking his love of combat away or turn him into what every who's never read Superman thinks Superman is.
Goku: Fuck you Gohan, don't be a dumbass and toy with Cell right now. He could be dangerous. Only I can fuck around all I want with dangerous people, instead of stopping them before they do something drastic out of desperation.ekrolo2 wrote:The last moment of common sense he had was when he told Gohan to kill Cell because they didn't want to see what he'd resort to once he (Cell) got desperate.GodKaio-Ken wrote:Well he did grow up basically alone after Grandpa-Gohan died. Naive is definitely the word...he has always been morally intelligent but obviously never went to real school of any sorts and was extremely laid back.
There is a lot of original Kid Goku in Super Goku IMO but it seems awkward because it doesn't quite match his progression through Z.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku at his core is a Blood Knight. A heroic blood knight, but a blood knight nonetheless.dbzfan7 wrote:Goku: Fuck you Gohan, don't be a dumbass and toy with Cell right now. He could be dangerous. Only I can fuck around all I want with dangerous people, instead of stopping them before they do something drastic out of desperation.ekrolo2 wrote:The last moment of common sense he had was when he told Gohan to kill Cell because they didn't want to see what he'd resort to once he (Cell) got desperate.GodKaio-Ken wrote:Well he did grow up basically alone after Grandpa-Gohan died. Naive is definitely the word...he has always been morally intelligent but obviously never went to real school of any sorts and was extremely laid back.
There is a lot of original Kid Goku in Super Goku IMO but it seems awkward because it doesn't quite match his progression through Z.
Exactly! And if you try to point out how Goku, under Toriyama, is a stagnant bastard who's become increasingly stale and one note well....dbzfan7 wrote:Goku: Fuck you Gohan, don't be a dumbass and toy with Cell right now. He could be dangerous. Only I can fuck around all I want with dangerous people, instead of stopping them before they do something drastic out of desperation.ekrolo2 wrote:The last moment of common sense he had was when he told Gohan to kill Cell because they didn't want to see what he'd resort to once he (Cell) got desperate.GodKaio-Ken wrote:Well he did grow up basically alone after Grandpa-Gohan died. Naive is definitely the word...he has always been morally intelligent but obviously never went to real school of any sorts and was extremely laid back.
There is a lot of original Kid Goku in Super Goku IMO but it seems awkward because it doesn't quite match his progression through Z.
Goku only cares about anyone when they're about to die or in danger, he gives precisely negative infinity fucks if HE'S the one who got them into a situation like that to begin with. Super has taken this a step further where killing Piccolo and Future Bulma means nothing to him: Freeza and Black can give him a good fight so fuck dead Piccolo and Future Bulma right in the throat with a loaded shotgun is his stance on the matter.HeroR wrote:Calling Goku a morally void bastard is a bit much. He's still a heroic character, he just tend to put a good fight before certain things, unless the enemy make things truly personal for him. At the same time, it isn't like he allowed his enemies to kill people in front of him without caring and he showed visual anger at Freeza after he killed Piccolo and hurt Gohan. A truly morally void bastard wouldn't have cared that Beerus was going to destroy the Earth during the fight, outside of having no oxygen to breath.
And we already know that Goku in Z got some heroic adaptation from Toei and GT was exclusive made by Toei, which is why he came off as more heroic.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Yeah pretty much. But he's also the only one allowed to dick around, without any backlash. Curse you Vegeta. Curse you Gohan. Curse you Gotenks. I love you Goku, let's go eat some food.ekrolo2 wrote:Exactly! And if you try to point out how Goku, under Toriyama, is a stagnant bastard who's become increasingly stale and one note well....dbzfan7 wrote:Goku: Fuck you Gohan, don't be a dumbass and toy with Cell right now. He could be dangerous. Only I can fuck around all I want with dangerous people, instead of stopping them before they do something drastic out of desperation.
This I think sums up thinks nicely:
*Toriyama writes Goku like a Saiyan, someone complains about how annoying it's gotten*
Fuck you! That's how Goku is! - moron fanboy
*Toriyama gives Goku some development that goes against his Saiyan traits*
FUCKING BRILLIANT TORIYAMA-SENSEI-SAMA-DONO-TAICHO! - moron fanboy
A blood knight who is just the most special person, free of peer consequence, despite being pretty horrible.Lord Beerus wrote:Goku at his core is a Blood Knight. A heroic blood knight, but a blood knight nonetheless.
Do you mean consequence as in dying or being called for your actions? Because if it's the latter, that is kinda true. But if it's the former, I don't think that's been the case. Goku's fucking around during the Cell Games lead to him getting called out by nearly everyone. Even Cell. Piccolo flat out cussed him out for the bullshit gamble he pulled with Gohan.dbzfan7 wrote:Yeah pretty much. But he's also the only one allowed to dick around, without any backlash. Curse you Vegeta. Curse you Gohan. Curse you Gotenks. I love you Goku, let's go eat some food.ekrolo2 wrote:Exactly! And if you try to point out how Goku, under Toriyama, is a stagnant bastard who's become increasingly stale and one note well....dbzfan7 wrote:Goku: Fuck you Gohan, don't be a dumbass and toy with Cell right now. He could be dangerous. Only I can fuck around all I want with dangerous people, instead of stopping them before they do something drastic out of desperation.
This I think sums up thinks nicely:
*Toriyama writes Goku like a Saiyan, someone complains about how annoying it's gotten*
Fuck you! That's how Goku is! - moron fanboy
*Toriyama gives Goku some development that goes against his Saiyan traits*
FUCKING BRILLIANT TORIYAMA-SENSEI-SAMA-DONO-TAICHO! - moron fanboy
A blood knight who is just the most special person, free of peer consequence, despite being pretty horrible.Lord Beerus wrote:Goku at his core is a Blood Knight. A heroic blood knight, but a blood knight nonetheless.
A one-time occurrence that no one, including Goku, has learned anything from. If they wanted to make this an actual thing, they would've had Gohan punch his teeth out for his shit in F and have Trunks do the same for what he did in the last episode. But they don't, everyone's just a morally void prick with no sense of responsibility.Lord Beerus wrote: Do you mean consequence as in dying or being called for your actions? Because if it's the latter, that is kinda true. But if it's the former, I don't think that's been the case. Goku's fucking around during the Cell Games lead to him getting called out by nearly everyone. Even Cell. Piccolo flat out cussed him out for the bullshit gamble he pulled with Gohan.
He didn't expect Freeza, the guy who blew up a planet to suffocate Goku in the void of space, who attacked Goku after the guy was willing to let him go, who attacked Goku after he had the balls to beg him for energy, who attacked the Earth and by extension wanted to attack Goku a third time after everything that happened to blow up the fucking Earth in desperation during F? After he told him he can leave AGAIN, he didn't expect that to end badly?! No, fuck Goku.HeroR wrote:Big difference.
Goku prolong fights because he enjoys them. Gohan prolonged his fight with Cell purely to torture him. The only time Goku allowed someone to get so desperate that they destroy the planet is with Freeza and he wasn't expected it. Cell had Freeza's cells, so Goku would know that Cell might rage quit if pushed into a corner. So, Gohan prolonging things and showing Cell that he has no chance at winning was doomed to end badly.
When Goku dominates a fight, he usually gives his enemies an out, or just kills them King Piccolo and Buu. The one time he did prolong a fight to torture someone, Freeza, the planet got destroyed. So, Goku was speaking from experience and Gohan blew him off.
Literally the only time someone actually got upset with the shit he pulls, and it actually affected him. The other time we had just Bulma, but everyone for some reason sided with Goku. It's basically a campy sitcom at this point when it comes to his faults.Lord Beerus wrote:Do you mean consequence as in dying or being called for your actions? Because if it's the latter, that is kinda true. But if it's the former, I don't think that's been the case. Goku's fucking around during the Cell Games lead to him getting called out by nearly everyone. Even Cell. Piccolo flat out cussed him out for the bullshit gamble he pulled with Gohan.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
They can't help it. The cast are fully aware they have three sets of wish granting MacGuffins that can bail them out of anything. Tension and stakes are deader than disco in Dragon Ball.ekrolo2 wrote:A one-time occurrence that no one, including Goku, has learned anything from. If they wanted to make this an actual thing, they would've had Gohan punch his teeth out for his shit in F and have Trunks do the same for what he did in the last episode. But they don't, everyone's just a morally void prick with no sense of responsibility.Lord Beerus wrote: Do you mean consequence as in dying or being called for your actions? Because if it's the latter, that is kinda true. But if it's the former, I don't think that's been the case. Goku's fucking around during the Cell Games lead to him getting called out by nearly everyone. Even Cell. Piccolo flat out cussed him out for the bullshit gamble he pulled with Gohan.
Which is why the writers of Super need to take a page out my book to rectify this issue. Specifically my stance of "FUCK NAMEK!", hey, it worked wonders for my rewrite of FLord Beerus wrote:They can't help it. The cast are fully aware they have three sets of wish granting MacGuffins that can bail them out of anything. Tension and stakes are deader than disco in Dragon Ball.ekrolo2 wrote:A one-time occurrence that no one, including Goku, has learned anything from. If they wanted to make this an actual thing, they would've had Gohan punch his teeth out for his shit in F and have Trunks do the same for what he did in the last episode. But they don't, everyone's just a morally void prick with no sense of responsibility.Lord Beerus wrote: Do you mean consequence as in dying or being called for your actions? Because if it's the latter, that is kinda true. But if it's the former, I don't think that's been the case. Goku's fucking around during the Cell Games lead to him getting called out by nearly everyone. Even Cell. Piccolo flat out cussed him out for the bullshit gamble he pulled with Gohan.
