Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

[dbzfan7]

It would be nice if the show actually SHOWED why this balance is necessary and do something with that or is this going to just be another Chekhov's gun?

Exactly. So far Beerus is shit at his job, and would pretty much end his universe if he felt like it. I have heard theories of why he's important, but not anything from the series itself. How about we see the consequences of him not doing his job. Show us why even someone as flawed as Beerus is needed. So far I see the equivalent of a fat fuck crooked cop with complete power over everything.

[buutenks]

Beerus is the newest villain/anti hero ish.So he is supposed to be stronger than Buu.

Being at the same PL would make no sense.

its like saying why is buu so powerful,he should be as strong as SPC.

I enjoy that beerus is so powerful,give goku and vegeta,perhaps gohan also something higher to aim for.

[TheUltimateVegito]

It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,

This is gold!

Let's not forget Beerus also destroyed the GT Universe.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

Why is it an problem for Beerus to be as powerful as he is? but it is okay when other characters do it or when Gero made Human androids more powerful than Freeza?

But when Trunks came out of the future is okay though.

This Beerus did it joke has gotten incredibly old fast and it was never funny in the first place.

And there are far more unbelievable things that have occurred in the manga but nobody talks about it.

[ekrolo2]

Why is it an problem for Beerus to be as powerful as he is? but it is okay when other characters do it or when Gero made Human androids more powerful than Freeza?

But when Trunks came out of the future is okay though.

This Beerus did it joke has gotten incredibly old fast and it was never funny in the first place.

And there are far more unbelievable things that have occurred in the manga but nobody talks about it.

You're doing that, and this'll get me a warning from VegettoEX but fuck it must be said already, annoying thing of assuming that just because people complain about say Beerus, they never complain about the other stuff which sure as hell isn't right round these parts.

Regardless, the Beerus didn't joke isn't born out of him being powerful, it's out of Toriyama trying to tie him into stuff needlessly. He didn't need to seal Old Kai away, he didn't need to blow up King Kai's planet and he sure as fuck didn't need to have anything to do with Freeza.

[DBZAOTA482]

Exactly, and it's always been that way.

And that's a big problem for the other characters. If Goku and Vegeta are the only ones acting like morons, sure, fine, whatever, they're Saiyan's. The problem is EVERYONE is acting like a stupid fighting obsessed Saiyan, especially characters who have no reason to do so. Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin all saw the destruction that can be wreaked on a planet if insane, powerful beings are left to do as they please. If there was any character consistency from arc to arc, none of them would so casually feed Goku's stupid Saiyan obsession. You don't go from witnessing one genocide then shrugs off a wise plan to smother one in its crib just because a stupid, alien freak like Goku tells you to.

His reasoning for it is stupid too. Okay, so Goku knows the RRA were an evil if incompetent organization and Gero worked for them. Maybe he's evil, maybe not. Here's how we can know for sure: gather the Dragon Balls and ask Shenron, hear out Gero's backstory then with 100% concrete information, decide how you want to proceed.

Everyone deciding to battle wouldn't be so bad if the character spent more than 5 seconds to think things through and based Goku's whole "Gero isn't necessarily a bad guy" assumption on factual information. But they do neither. They hear about the apocalyptic future and how they can stop it and just decided "Nah, we're gonna train and fight. Hell, we're not even gonna train properly!".

He knew that everyone would die without him, and without ANY PREPARATORY training that preceded the appearance of the androids.

Okay, so if the preparatory training is this important, why not simply train 2 years and 363 days then spend the last two in the ROSAT? That way you get enough preparatory training AND the benefits of the ROSAT to complete what Goku's objective is: TRAIN for the Android arrival.

Only Goku and Vegeta were about the thrill of the hunt. Krillin initially agreed with Bulma but welcomed the challenge because with a common enemy the Z-Warriors were about to form a bond and it was unknown if they could trust Piccolo or especially Vegeta.

Gero may be a bad guy but he's still a defenseless old men so it's pretty drastic to attack him for something he might do.

Also on the last one, hindsight is 20/20.

[ekrolo2]

Only Goku and Vegeta were about the thrill of the hunt. Krillin initially agreed with Bulma but welcomed the challenge because with a common enemy the Z-Warriors were about to form a bond and it was unknown if they could trust Piccolo or especially Vegeta.

Gero may be a bad guy but he's still a defenseless old men so it's pretty drastic to attack him for something he might do.

Also on the last one, hindsight is 20/20.

Tien was in on it while Krillin later muses that Piccolo detests getting defeated like Goku & Vegeta after 17 and 18 curb stomp them so he's letting stupid pride dictate his actions as well. They know they can trust Piccolo, Krillin even outright says as much. I can understand his reasoning for how bonding makes people closer but I'm pretty sure putting the planet in terrible, pre-determined catastrophe needs a little more reasoning than to make everyone more friends.

I'd say Piccolo would be fine with killing him. Hell, BULMA would do it too considering the fact she was willing to gun down Goku in her first appearance

But Cell is a real threat even without its perfect form.
He would be born after three years and would have started to absorb the people (although Bulma would have discovered her fetus in the lab could not know that his alternative part had arrived from the future four years before), and after a few days it would become so strong to kill any z warrior who would face him.

Without finding the androids,he would kept hiding and continuing to absorb people, becoming increasingly strong.
In point it is that killing Gero would not put things right as many think.

The characters and situations are consistent. Personal tastes are something different from the objectivity, and personal tastes are not objective.

Cell only requires humans to return to his Imperfect full power. He could potentially succeed in killing everyone but once again, Namek's Dragon Balls and King Kai's aid make this point all but moot. I doubt he'd even manage to do it since if he started absorbing people Kami would sense this and notify the others, he already suspected Cell was there while he was hibernating and with the ROSAT, Cell is totally fucked.

Others simply trust to Goku, as they ALWAYS did when he saved the earth from invincible monsters like King Piccolo, Vegeta and Frieza.
Even in the Saiyan Saga, Krillin fulfill a stupid wish of Goku, and spared Vegeta, that probably would be come back to kill them.
Honestly, I do not see no one contradiction in this.

Krillin fulfilling Goku's wish is an awful, stupid moment that I wouldn't ever use to back my point up. Also, everyone died and/or saw what happens when you simply put blind faith into Goku coming back: you twiddle around with your thumb up your ass, helpless to do anything then barely win in the end. These guys should NOT be so trusting of Goku after how that repeatedly got them killed so recently.

Maybe, because Android is a threat confined to the earth, and because they can not abandon it. If for what, in the manga, King kai could warn namekkians and convince them to resurrect all the warriors killed by Nappa, avoiding all the Namek saga. Just to give an example. It does not help them actively, in the absence of a real threat

[/quote]

If King Kai REALLY needs to know how big of a threat the Androids can potentially become, you can once again simply use Porunga as a way to figure this out. But even if Porunga told him they can't leave Earth because their tech isn't good enough, I really doubt he'd just end communication with the Namekian's and simply let everyone stay dead. He's not that much of an emotionless bastard and the manga itself supports this with him doing Goku a solid by assisting him against Cell.

[Gorou]

Cell only requires humans to return to his Imperfect full power. He could potentially succeed in killing everyone but once again, Namek's Dragon Balls and King Kai's aid make this point all but moot. I doubt he'd even manage to do it since if he started absorbing people Kami would sense this and notify the others, he already suspected Cell was there while he was hibernating and with the ROSAT, Cell is totally fucked.

Cell, in five days, he completely outclassed Piccolo, that was quite superior.
That level would have reached if he had continued to absorb people for months and months ?? Because, if he had not there localized androids, he would continue to absorb other people.

We also can not rule out that he could, by absorbing tens of millions of people, exceed the level of Perfect Cell

The sayan would not have used the ROSAT, not before he faced Cell least once, groped to stop him.
You keep ignoring my point.

Krillin fulfilling Goku's wish is an awful, stupid moment that I wouldn't ever use to back my point up. Also, everyone died and/or saw what happens when you simply put blind faith into Goku coming back: you twiddle around with your thumb up your ass, helpless to do anything then barely win in the end. These guys should NOT be so trusting of Goku after how that repeatedly got them killed so recently.

This is the point. They tend to blindly trust and Goku To Satisfy His demands, However unreasonable. They did it before the saga of the Androids, and have also done later.
They could give up its correctness and fighting and his sportsmanship, and help him in his battle against Piccolo, that threatened the entire Earth.

It would have been wiser, but, even then, they trusted him.
entirely consistent; they have always done so

If King Kai REALLY needs to know how big of a threat the Androids can potentially become

In no way the androids are as dangerous as a Frieza, a Cell or Majin Buu.
They would destroy the Earth for sure, but the gods protect the whole universe, not a single planet.

King Kai could have acted so even to resurrect the warriors killed by Nappa, and yet forced Z warriors to travel to Namek.

[ekrolo2]

Cell, in five days, he completely outclassed Piccolo, that was quite superior.
That level would have reached if he had continued to absorb people for months and months ?? Why, if he had not there localized androids, he would continue to absorb other people.
We also can not rule out that he could, by absorbing tens of millions of people, exceed the level of Perfect Cell
The sayan would not have used the ROSAT, not before he faced Cell least once, groped to stop him.
You keep ignoring my point.

You're the one ignoring the fact Kami would sense Cell eating people and notify the others of this. Even if say Vegeta goes to fight him, Goku and the rest wouldn't and would instead use the ROSAT to get a lot of intense training in a short amount of time. An amount of time Cell cannot hope to attain anything close to in a single day.

This is the point. They tend to blindly trust and Goku To Satisfy His demands, However unreasonable. They did it before the saga of the Androids, and have also done later.
They could give up its correctness and fighting and his sportsmanship, and help him in his battle against Piccolo, that threatened the entire Earth. It would have been wiser, but, even then, they trusted him.entirely consistent; they have always done so

And that has consistently kept getting them nearly or outright killed because they keep drinking the Goku cool-aid, something that, after the events of the Saiyan & Namek Sagas they'd wise up to and take an opportunity to stop something else from threatening them when they can. Seriously, them waiting and trusting in Goku to solve everything constantly keeps getting them killed throughout the first two sagas. They're totally blind fools to NOT take anything away from the events of those arcs. That's the real issue, these guys aren't thinking like people who've been through a lot of horrible things and would naturally get changed by them. They're idiots who've learned NOTHING at all.

In no way the androids are as dangerous as a Frieza, a Cell or Majin Buu.
They would destroy the Earth for sure, but the gods protect the whole universe, not a single planet.

King Kai could have acted so even to resurrect the warriors killed by Nappa, and yet forced Z warriors to travel to Namek.

Says who? They don't know anything of what the Androids are capable of but they can, by finding the Namekian Dragon Balls and asking Porunga specifically what they can do. Are they capable of space faring? Who made them? Is there an easy way to shut them down? The characters have a perfectly avaiable source of information to make an informed opinion on something yet they don't: because Toriyama know his story cannot survive any kind of logical thinking on the part of the heroes.

[Gorou]

You're the one ignoring the fact Kami would sense Cell eating people and notify the others of this. Even if say Vegeta goes to fight him, Goku and the rest wouldn't and would instead use the ROSAT to get a lot of intense training in a short amount of time. An amount of time Cell cannot hope to attain anything close to in a single day.

And who says you will not try to stop him anyway without training, as they have done with anbroids?
I'm certainly not saying that the Earth would have been a goner, but I assume that, even without Gero, it would have been anyway threatened by Cell.
The Cell arc would have been anyway. Simply Perfect Cell would be never born.

And that has consistently kept getting them nearly or outright killed because they keep drinking the Goku cool-aid, something that, after the events of the Saiyan & Namek Sagas they'd wise up to and take an opportunity to stop something else from threatening them when they can. Seriously, them waiting and trusting in Goku to solve everything constantly keeps getting them killed throughout the first two sagas. They're totally blind fools to NOT take anything away from the events of those arcs. That's the real issue, these guys aren't thinking like people who've been through a lot of horrible things and would naturally get changed by them. They're idiots who've learned NOTHING at all.

Excuse me, but what they had to learn? Goku has ALWAYS WON. He defeated King Piccolo, Piccolo, Nappa, Vegeta (with a little help) and even Freeza.
Although many of Goku decisions have extended the threat, it has always been foiled. It's not like after the Buu arc, where even for his fault, the earth is destroyed.

They have no real reason to not trust him, in the end.

Says who? They don't know anything of what the Androids are capable of but they can, by finding the Namekian Dragon Balls and asking Porunga specifically what they can do. Are they capable of space faring? Who made them? Is there an easy way to shut them down? The characters have a perfectly avaiable source of information to make an informed opinion on something yet they don't: because Toriyama know his story cannot survive any kind of logical thinking on the part of the heroes.

Androids can use the teleport as Bu or Cell? No.
They can survive in open space as Freeza? No.
In fact, they can not leave the land, and can not threaten other than that.

I admit that this is very forced, but it is not the first time that happens.

[ekrolo2]

And who says you will not try to stop him anyway without training, as they have done with anbroids?
I'm certainly not saying that the Earth would have been a goner, but I assume that, even without Gero, it would have been anyway threatened by Cell.
The Cell arc would have been anyway. Simply it would miss Perfect Cell.

Vegeta might, but Goku, even though he can be up his own ass, has shown that he can recognize the potential danger of an adversary as evidence by him sensing the depths of Boo's power upon his awakening. This might be me giving Goku undeserved credit, but I don't think he'd risk fighting Cell. Especially if say Vegeta or even Piccolo went to investigate and Cell showed off some of his power for all to sense.

It would have been threatened, for a little while by Cell, but without the Androids and with the ROSAT, Cell simply has no chance of winning or being an issue in this scenario.

Excuse me, but what they had to learn,? Goku has ALWAYS WON. He defeated King Piccolo, Piccolo, Nappa, Vegeta (with a little help) and even Freeza.Although many of Goku decisions have extended the threat, it has always been foiled. It's not like after the Buu arc, where even for his fault, the earth is destroyed.They have no real reason to not trust him, in the end.

The problem isn't solely in Goku's decision: its the fact the characters are still completely relying on him. In a story where the characters react like people and not devices to progress an easily avoidable conflict along, going through all the experiences in the Saiyan & Namek Sagas would change someone. It would make Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, who witnessed the genocide of an entire species less open to just letting Goku have his way. Same thing with Yamcha and I'd argue even Tien.

Sure them trusting Goku always ends well, but at the same time, they've all died horribly and had to see or endure terrible things for that happy ending to come. And now they're presented with an opportunity to avoid such a situation. I simply don't think they'd be so readily okay with putting their lives in such danger because Goku will come through at the end. Not after everything that's happened. Its a pill to big for me personally to swallow.

Androids can use the teleport as Bu or Cell? No.
They can survive in open space as Freeza? No.
In fact, they can not leave the land, and can not threaten other than that.
I admit that this is very forced, but it is not the first time that happens.

You're ignoring my point: we know this, King Kai and the rest don't but they can by asking Porunga the specifics behind 17 and 18. WITH said specifics they can make a proper, informed opinion instead of jumping the gun and saying "Nope! These two punks kids factually, 100% cannot do this! How do I know! Fuck you, that's how!". There is no in-universe reason for why they don't make 100% sure on this and even if they did, King Kai wouldn't just let the likes of Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin stay dead, not when he's already bothered dialing up Namek.

[Gorou]

Vegeta might, but Goku, even though he can be up his own ass, has shown that he can recognize the potential danger of an adversary as evidence by him sensing the depths of Boo's power upon his awakening. This might be me giving Goku undeserved credit, but I don't think he'd risk fighting Cell. Especially if say Vegeta or even Piccolo went to investigate and Cell showed off some of his power for all to sense.

It would have been threatened, for a little while by Cell, but without the Androids and with the ROSAT, Cell simply has no chance of winning or being an issue in this scenario.

Do not bet much on this.
We are talking about the same character who believes he can beat Freeza, who thought he could beat Kid Buu, after a first glance, without the merger, using only SSJ3. The same that faces the androids without having taken the medicine.

And, Cell would not have chance to win only if you discover by some post-training sayan , and as has been shown, if cornered, the big-bug is very good at escaping and hiding. Imperfect Cell is the smartest version of Cell (apparently, although it should be in its perfect form).

What I want to say, kill Gero would make the earth a safer place? No yet, and in any case would have been a choice at all out for character for Goku and, yes, even to his friends who have always entrusted to him.
Goku, several times, has endangered the Earth for its eagerness to fight, and no one has ever reproach him because in the end, despite everything, has always been able to resolve the situation.

The problem isn't solely in Goku's decision: its the fact the characters are still completely relying on him. In a story where the characters react like people and not devices to progress an easily avoidable conflict along, going through all the experiences in the Saiyan & Namek Sagas would change someone. It would make Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, who witnessed the genocide of an entire species less open to just letting Goku have his way. Same thing with Yamcha and I'd argue even Tien.

I do not see a connection for this.

The destruction wrought by Sayan is not liked to a Goku's bad decision . It is linked to the decision not to use the balls with cunning and not to blow up the ships sayan.

Same thing for Frieza: the tyrant would attack Namek anyway.
De facto, it was Goku to solve all these situations, and for this his friends have no real reason not to trust him.
He is a selfish and does not act as hero, but in the eyes of his companions he is always the guy that solves the situation. They should have a real reason to doubt, only after Cell saga, or after Bu saga, because the evil actions perpetuated by these monsters are derivatives, in part, of the bad decisions of Goku, but not before.

You're ignoring my point: we know this, King Kai and the rest don't but they can by asking Porunga the specifics behind 17 and 18. WITH said specifics they can make a proper, informed opinion instead of jumping the gun and saying "Nope! These two punks kids factually, 100% cannot do this! How do I know! Fuck you, that's how!". There is no in-universe reason for why they don't make 100% sure on this and even if they did, King Kai wouldn't just let the likes of Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin stay dead, not when he's already bothered dialing up Namek.

However, he has already done so, when he avoid to alerting Kami Guru with his antennae, forcing the journey to Namek. What prevented him to communicate directly the desire at the old sage namekkian?
The situation is parallel.

[DBZAOTA482]

If any arc ruined the flow of the story of Dragon Ball it was definitely the Android/Cell arc.

How?
Objectively speaking, has not ruined anything

I thought the arc just took itself too seriously and had the most self contained story out of all the arcs in Dragon Ball.

Without Android/Cell Saga... Piccolo never becomes one with God, Krillin never met Mrs. Right, Gohan never realizes his true potential, the Saiyans never discover the "Beyond Super Saiyan" wall, Vegeta's whereabouts is unknown and he never comes to accept he has people to care about, and Goku is left drifting in space for reasons unknown. If any saga is "self-contained" it's the Majin Boo Saga which only really gave closure to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry something of which isn't even necessary.

Anyways, Goku died of natural causes so they can't revive him.

[Desassina]

The Buu saga is pretty much Bourne Ultimatum. Supremacy gave us a conclusion to Identity, which turned out to be temporary, and changed around a bit by what most people consider to be the best Bourne movie. Ending at the Freeza saga would be premature, while the Cell saga ended with such a high note, that it was bound to continue from its success. I have no regrets, since the Buu saga was the most fun I had.

[Lord Beerus]

Without Android/Cell Saga... Piccolo never becomes one with God, Krillin never met Mrs. Right, Gohan never realizes his true potential, the Saiyans never discover the "Beyond Super Saiyan" wall, Vegeta's whereabouts is unknown and he never comes to accept he has people to care about, and Goku is left drifting in space for reasons unknown. If any saga is "self-contained" it's the Majin Boo Saga which only really gave closure to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry something of which isn't even necessary.

Anyways, Goku died of natural causes so they can't revive him.

- Piccolo fusing with Kami was kinda pointless in the end as all that did was give Piccolo a boost in power to fight #17 and that instigated a chain of event that lead to Cell becoming perfect. Besides, after that happened, Piccolo never fought again.
- Gohan's true potential was actually realised in the Majin Boo arc through Old Kai's ritual.
- All of the branched off Super Saiyans forms become worthless very quickly once Potara was introduced.
- Vegeta's character development only truly occurred during the Majin Boo arc. He didn't two shits about anyone prior to that.
- Goku would have come back from home eventually. There was no way he was gonna stay in space forever.

[Gorou]

- Piccolo fusing with Kami was kinda pointless in the end as all that did was give Piccolo a boost in power to fight #17 and that instigated a chain of event that lead to Cell becoming perfect. Besides, after that happened, Piccolo never fought again.

What? Piccolo fusing with Kami was a CRUCIAL EVENT, (cited in the previous sagas) which introduced Dende, like new Kami, and the new Dragon Balls.
The lack of objectivity of many users astounds me.

[Lord Beerus]

- Piccolo fusing with Kami was kinda pointless in the end as all that did was give Piccolo a boost in power to fight #17 and that instigated a chain of event that lead to Cell becoming perfect. Besides, after that happened, Piccolo never fought again.

What? Piccolo fusing with Kami was a CRUCIAL EVENT, (cited in the previous sagas) which introduced Dende, like new Kami, and the new Dragon Balls.
The lack of objectivity of many users astounds me.

All the new Dragon Balls could do was grant two more wishes. And even then there were still limitations. Because if you wanted to wish for a mass revival of people, Shenlong would count that as two wishes because Dende wasn't powerful enough to boost Shenlong's power and make it count as one wish. Not to mention they have a second set of Dragon Balls they can use at practically any time and have literally not limitations except for speaking the wish in Namekian. Porunga can do everything that Shenlong can do, except much better. Not to mention Porunga is much more friendlier. And he's well built.

[ekrolo2]

Do not bet much on this.
We are talking about the same character who believes he can beat Freeza, who thought he could beat Kid Buu, after a first glance, without the merger, using only SSJ3. The same that faces the androids without having taken the medicine.

And, Cell would not have chance to win only if you discover by some post-training sayan , and as has been shown, if cornered, the big-bug is very good at escaping and hiding. Imperfect Cell is the smartest version of Cell (apparently, although it should be in its perfect form).

What I want to say, kill Gero would make the earth a safer place? No yet, and in any case would have been a choice at all out for character for Goku and, yes, even to his friends who have always entrusted to him.
Goku, several times, has endangered the Earth for its eagerness to fight, and no one has ever reproach him because in the end, despite everything, has always been able to resolve the situation.

Goku sensed the boosts Freeza acquired from his transformations and after his finally Zenkai + Kaio-Ken guessed Freeza probably didn't have nearly as much power as he was boasting to have. It's not something born out of arrogance or a blind desire to fight, but simply a mistake in judging his opponents power, something doesn't do later on.

He also only decides to fight Kid Boo because he thinks he has a shot at it, beforehand he outright refuses to leave Super Boo's body without fusing because he knows Super Boo will murder him even with everyone absorbed cut free.

Him not taking the medicine is dumb yes but TBF, Goku is still alive a good six months after he originally bit the dust in the other timeline. He didn't do this to make things more interesting or to challenge himself but simply him thinking that if he's already managed to stay alive this much past his pre-determined expiration date, then surely the virus won't magically activate. Especially since he spends 3 years training what I'm assuming is daily without any difficulty that we know of.

It is true that Cell can keep himself hidden, however, he's still screwed. Once Goku exits the ROSAT, all he has to do is sense people getting eaten and show up there instantly with the IT.

Oh and no one questioning Goku would be a good point unless Toriyama didn't do EXACTLY this during the Cell Games when he decides to throw Gohan at Cell. Piccolo and the rest openly question this decision and the story makes no qualms about showing that Goku is being an amoral prick with bad judgment. I'll get to more on everyone's bad blind faith in Goku later and why no one, after what they experienced would simply be "Meh, Goku'll win anyway" not at least in a cast that's supposed to act anything like real people.

I do not see a connection for this.

The destruction wrought by Sayan is not liked to a Goku's bad decision . It is linked to the decision not to use the balls with cunning and not to blow up the ships sayan.

Same thing for Frieza: the tyrant would attack Namek anyway.
De facto, it was Goku to solve all these situations, and for this his friends have no real reason not to trust him.
He is a selfish and does not act as hero, but in the eyes of his companions he is always the guy that solves the situation. They should have a real reason to doubt, only after Cell saga, or after Bu saga, because the evil actions perpetuated by these monsters are derivatives, in part, of the bad decisions of Goku, but not before.

Goku being openly selfish is precisely why they should doubt him. Even if he comes through in the end, they should be worried about him letting threats escalate just because of Saiyan logic. Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu all saw precisely this happen King Kai tried to reason with him to kill Freeza while he's powering up and Goku tells him to fuck off. Krillin also has a good example for why Goku, despite coming through, still shouldn't just be taken at face value given how he lets Vegeta, the guy who came to Earth, nearly destroyed it and killed almost all of his friends to go just for the sake of combat.

Nevermind that these guys shouldn't simply be so casual about any of this. They all died horrible, painful deaths because they waited for Goku or suffered terrible injuries repeatedly while he got there. In a cast that's reacting in any way like actual people would, which shouldn't be so hard since half the fuckers are human beings, even knowing that things might work out in the end, they shouldn't be so gun hoo about throwing themselves at another set of all powerful lunatics after they died or suffered horribly from the last batch. These are not feeling, thinking people anymore, they're amoral pricks who might as well look at the reader and say "We don't give a fuck anymore and you shouldn't either."

However, he has already done so, when he avoid to alerting Kami Guru with his antennae, forcing the journey to Namek. What prevented him to communicate directly the desire at the old sage namekkian?
The situation is parallel.

Freeza wasn't an immediate issue there. When he senses the Namekian's are thriving and at peace, he probably figured they could just do this space journey themselves. By the time the Earth crew arrives, Freeza's already there and just calling him up isn't an option. The Android threat isn't remotely the same thing, in this hypothetical scenario, the Earth DBs are gone as are most of its fighters and two Androids who apparently dwarf Freeza in power are rampaging and could do the same for the rest of the universe. Key word being could, to be sure, they can ask Porunga for information and for help in reviving the dead fighters.

[Gorou]

All the new Dragon Balls could do was grant two more wishes. And even then there were still limitations. Because if you wanted to wish for a mass revival of people, Shenlong would count that as two wishes because Dende wasn't powerful enough to boost Shenlong's power and make it count as one wish. Not to mention they have a second set of Dragon Balls they can use at practically any time and have literally not limitations except for speaking the wish in Namekian. Porunga can do everything that Shenlong can do, except much better. Not to mention Porunga is much more friendlier. And he's well built.

The second set is not in any way relevant in the context, since we are talking of the reintroduction of the Dragon, now boosted, on Earth, of the introduction of a recurring character in the cast and the elimination of another (old kami).

All of this is irrelevant? Really? Playing on your game, even the Kaioshin are irrelevant, at this point... Even all the fusion have proved useless, and also ultimate Gohan (that have not concluded anything with these powers, even killed Boo).
The three wishes, in this case two, were very helpful in the Buu saga. The Nemekians balls in no way can be found like terrestrial ones (only Goku with his instantaneous transmission can get there quickly)

Even if you don like the saga, tries to be objective. As I have noted many of our objective critical are inconsistent.

[Gorou]

Goku sensed the boosts Freeza acquired from his transformations and after his finally Zenkai + Kaio-Ken guessed Freeza probably didn't have nearly as much power as he was boasting to have. It's not something born out of arrogance or a blind desire to fight, but simply a mistake in judging his opponents power, something doesn't do later on.

Instead it turned out to be a terrible miscalculation, because Freeze was not using minimal portion of its power throughout the fight. In addition, he belived to can beat him despite warnings and ammunition of King Kai, about its power and its dangerous.

He also only decides to fight Kid Boo because he thinks he has a shot at it, beforehand he outright refuses to leave Super Boo's body without fusing because he knows Super Boo will murder him even with everyone absorbed cut free.

And we saw how it went. Also, thought ho beat Boo concentrating all energies of SSJ3 in a minute; another failure.
Rather, he could have saved her son.

Him not taking the medicine is dumb yes but TBF, Goku is still alive a good six months after he originally bit the dust in the other timeline. He didn't do this to make things more interesting or to challenge himself but simply him thinking that if he's already managed to stay alive this much past his pre-determined expiration date, then surely the virus won't magically activate. Especially since he spends 3 years training what I'm assuming is daily without any difficulty that we know of.

Even this it turned out to be yet another miscalculation. Now, it is not my wish to try to say that these initiatives are devoid of a solid reasoning, My intention is only to make manifest the immense amount of calculation mistakes that he made.

It is true that Cell can keep himself hidden, however, he's still screwed. Once Goku exits the ROSAT, all he has to do is sense people getting eaten and show up there instantly with the IT.

It might go like this, how could well decide to attack before, maybe in groups, following the first notice of Kami to he unknown danger. That Cell would have been less dangerous without the androids, do not doubt it, but it any case, represented still a significant threat, which in any way could have been avoided.

Also, put well into account that could potenziarsi absorbing the remaining warriors. In a act to desperation, it would also be able to self-destruct as the Cell Games (Goku is not Trunks, killing the enemy without wasting time). Everything is possible.

Oh and no one questioning Goku would be a good point unless Toriyama didn't do EXACTLY this during the Cell Games when he decides to throw Gohan at Cell. Piccolo and the rest openly question this decision and the story makes no qualms about showing that Goku is being an amoral prick with bad judgment. I'll get to more on everyone's bad blind faith in Goku later and why no one, after what they experienced would simply be "Meh, Goku'll win anyway" not at least in a cast that's supposed to act anything like real people.

The only case, maybe, where Goku was right.
Gohan was the only one who could do and the point of Piccolo, on not talking to his son about his intentions, he is flawed, because Gohan is fully aware of his father's intentions (remember the speech in Cell).
The only case, also, where Goku insisted to give the final blow to the enemy, without getting crazy ideas to possible futore battle, and spare he.

Goku being openly selfish is precisely why they should doubt him. Even if he comes through in the end, they should be worried about him letting threats escalate just because of Saiyan logic. Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu all saw precisely this happen King Kai tried to reason with him to kill Freeza while he's powering up and Goku tells him to fuck off. Krillin also has a good example for why Goku, despite coming through, still shouldn't just be taken at face value given how he lets Vegeta, the guy who came to Earth, nearly destroyed it and killed almost all of his friends to go just for the sake of combat.

None of these choices have caused serious repercussions on them.
Freeze was also defeated, and Vegeta, later, it not represented a direct threat to Earth.
You'd be right, maybe, if Freeze would win, and if Vegeta would return, raged, on Earth committing a massacre.
Then, if for that, they would have known already from the tournament and the battle against Piccolo, when Goku refusal their help, when he let hit only for sportsmanship and when, at the end, It gave him a senzu, instead of seal.
They act thus, almost passively to its decisions, so there has always been molro sense to accuse them of excessive stupidity and inconsistency in this sporadic case. It is a general defect.

Nevermind that these guys shouldn't simply be so casual about any of this. They all died horrible, painful deaths because they waited for Goku or suffered terrible injuries repeatedly while he got there

They are dead, waiting for him, is but this is due to a series of events totally beyond its control, which it does not hold responsibility. They are not dead for its own distinct decision, or for a request. They died because the sayan came before him.

. In a cast that's reacting in any way like actual people would, which shouldn't be so hard since half the fuckers are human beings, even knowing that things might work out in the end, they shouldn't be so gun hoo about throwing themselves at another set of all powerful lunatics after they died or suffered horribly from the last batch. These are not feeling, thinking people anymore, they're amoral pricks who might as well look at the reader and say "We don't give a fuck anymore and you shouldn't either."

Yet, according to the facts, they have always acted thus. They have always trusted him.
In the saga of sayan they died precisely because he was not there, just like in the future of Trunks.

However at that time he was permanently with them there, it should be enough to reassure them.

Freeza wasn't an immediate issue there. When he senses the Namekian's are thriving and at peace, he probably figured they could just do this space journey themselves. By the time the Earth crew arrives, Freeza's already there and just calling him up isn't an option. The Android threat isn't remotely the same thing, in this hypothetical scenario, the Earth DBs are gone as are most of its fighters and two Androids who apparently dwarf Freeza in power are rampaging and could do the same for the rest of the universe. Key word being could, to be sure, they can ask Porunga for information and for help in reviving the dead fighters.

No, Freeze was an emperor with infinite resources, an army of mercenaries, a fleet of spaceships, a bad temper and the innate ability to live in space.
Androids do not have any of this, and in fact, even after years, they threatened nothing, except that the Earth
In addition, I repeat, that King Kai, if he vluto, would have saved Goku one of the most dangerous battle of his life