Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

[TheMikado]

Its hard to believe an arc that literally sounded like some 15 year olds fanfiction:

1. Evil Goku
2. Future Trunks returning
3. An evil Kai
4. Mai is back as Trunk's love interest
5. Vegito comes back as a new Super Saiyan
6. Multiple timelines going back and forth
7. Yajirobe surviving in a dead future
8. A whole universe/timeline being destroyed
9. Super Saiyan Rose

....turned out to be one of the best arcs of the show.

I'm sure you can find some of these concepts in the last 20 years of Dragonball Z fanfiction if you looked hard enough.

The Cell arc and Trunks' entire character already sounded like fanfiction, so this isn't exactly something new.

Oh come on, please show me a single fan fiction piece written like Cell, F Trunks, prior to its actual release. This is totally false, if you can find a single fan fiction piece with those concepts written before the original manga I'll neve question a single statement you ever say again.

[Doctor.]

Oh come on, please show me a single fan fiction piece written like Cell, F Trunks, prior to its actual release. This is totally false, if you can find a single fan fiction piece with those concepts written before the original manga I'll neve question a single statement you ever say again.

I obviously meant that the concepts sound extremely like fanfiction.

- A character coming from the future
- He's the son of two characters with no romantic involvement whatsoever
- Has a sword
- Slices up the previous villain with no trouble whatsoever
- Has the transformation that only the main character had before that point
- Came back in time to save the main character
- Dark backstory

Put all of these elements together and use them to describe any other character and anyone will tell you it sounds like fanfiction. Obviously I won't be able to find you anything, but the only reason that the Black arc sounds like fanfiction is because there was a 20-year gap between DB's ending and the Black arc lol.

[Marlowe89]

Between Goku Black being possibly the best villain in the franchise and Future Trunks arguably getting even more relevance than in Z, I thought it was a fantastic arc.

I had some issues, obviously - I don't really like the way Black's timeline origins were explained (and considering the latest chapter, the manga doesn't look to be much different in that regard either unfortunately) and "Super Trunks" was cool but entirely unexplained which is somewhat annoying. The pacing was awkward at some points with the constant back-and-forth time travelling, and to be honest, I'm still not sure the whole Mafuba thing was even necessary.

Other than that, the general pros of the arc have all been summed up nicely by the other posters here. I definitely liked how Toei fleshed out Zamasu's character; he was never particularly a good guy, but his development from a simple Supreme Kai apprentice who didn't really approve of the actions of mortals to an incredibly narcissistic god who outright despised them was very well-done and I especially liked the fact that Goku directly had a hand in that transition. Just very entertaining overall.

[Kaboom]

Honestly? The arc's done nothing to improve my low opinion on Super as a whole. In fact, when it comes to Super's habit of "screwing up things from the original story," the Trunks arc has ended up the worst offender by far. Dropping the ball with stuff like the kid's ages and minor details from the manga's epilogue is NOTHING compared to outright ruining the hard-earned happy ending for Trunks after the Cell arc.

There were some cool bits, like Zamas as a character concept and some of the fights. But that's not enough to outweigh the convoluted time-travel story, the ass-pull powerups, the completely pointless waste of Vegetto, and of course the dreariest ending of a Dragon Ball arc to date.

Then of course the "soft-serve" icing on this crap cake was Trunks' creepy romance with Mai, who's actually older than his mother, who of course was also killed off. But naturally Mai is the only other survivor of his universe in the end, so their not-fooling-anybody-about-their-real-ages fling can continue in some other reality. Add the sprinkles of Goku's character flanderization on top, and you've got a putrid dessert that's en route right into the trashcan.

At this point I don't really care who's writing this stuff anymore, be it Toei's people or Toriyama himself. It's just bad, regardless.

[Draconic]

Gonna quote what I said in another thread:

So now that the arc is over I guess it's time to give my final thoughts on it and I guess this is the best thread for it.

As a whole it was very good. The first half of it especially was downright excellent: Bulma's death, Zamasu's development, the moments between Vegeta and Trunks, Black's whole characterization, the mystery element and Beerus killing Zamasu are some of the best parts in any Dragon Ball story.

The fights for the most part were very good troughout the whole arc, with Trunks vs Black at the cabin, Goku and Trunks vs Rose Black and Zamasu, Vegeta's rematch against Black and Vegetto vs Merged Zamasu and Goku's angry beatdown of both villains being the highlights.

The character utilization was also very well done, with Bulma, Mai, Beerus and Whis having major roles, while characters like Kid Trunks, Yajirobe and Kaioshin also getting some stuff to do. While Goku and Vegeta still did the most fighting, their role wasn't much more than muscle, while they took a backseat in favor of Trunks. Even so, Goku still managed to retain the feeling of importance, jumpstarting Zamasu's eveil ways, which was important when one of the main villains wore his body for the arc, but the themes of the story was centered around Trunks and that was good.

Zamasu also managed to climb rapidly to the top of best villains. Present Zamasu was very well utilized to showcase the character's main gripes and motives for evil, Goku Black incorporated his respect but also contempt for Goku and humans in general, while Future Zamasu existed to clear what his pure character is, without Goku's traits that Black possesed. For all that to take place in a mere 20 episodes is incredible for me, especially in the context of the arc taking place in something like Super, which played mostlyeverything safe until that point.

However, the main problems the arc suffers from is in how they tried to keep Trunks relevant fighting wise. As this was his arc first and foremost, it's understandable the writers wanted that, but how they went about it was sub par, to say the least. Him getting a transformation out of nowhere, explained trough the concept of rage was very poor. Rage for me is the worst way progression could be done, which is why, even for all of SSBlue's shortcomings, I still accept it as it is something interesting. The form looked cool, the first transformation scene was great and it was part of some very good moments, but the fact the reason for it's exitence is so poor I can't help but criticize it.
Outside of that form, we have the problem of the Genki Dama scene, which is, as many called it, a huge asspull. The intention behind it is very good, as having the strike which destroys Zamasu's body be an attack representing all the mortals he so despised is a fitting end for him. The moment had build up, as almost everyother episode we had the two kids proclaim their hope in Trunks, but it came short of actually explaining the ability of the character to use it. Thematically I applaud the writers for the intention, but the execution came short.
How I would have fixed those problems is instead of Trunks' form being achieved trough rage, I would have replaced it with Vegeta proposing the God ritual to him after their sparring session. Then you replace FTrunks' and Kid Trunks' little squabble with Kid Trunks being jealous of his future self for getting this much attention. The two would eventually have a heart to heart, with the Future one complimenting the kid's strength, much higher than his at the same age and making him promise he will continue training to surpass him so that a similar future doesn't befall this timeline too. The time limit would end during the trip to the future, but Trunks would have kept the power inside him, much like Goku and his Rage form would just be SSJ2 using God ki. You don't even have to change the design!
For the Genki Dama, I would have proposed that after Trunks' and Kaioshin's battle with Dabura, Majin Buu would get revived. Without knowing of fusion and SSJ3 being way to hard to achieve so quickly, Kaioshin would take Trunks to Kaio in the afterlife, where he would learn the technique and finish Majin Buu with it, establishing that he knows it, so when the time comes for him to use it againts Zamasu it wouldn't come out of nowhere.

EDIT: Shit! Forgot the actual ending! The fact that the characters lost is new and refreshing. I love Trunks being sad that he faild to protect his timeline, but chose not to sulk over it and just went with Whis' and Mai's proposal to continue living in another timeline similar to their own. It's bittersweet, but encompases Trunks' character that no matter what befalls him he will find a way to keep on going.
Also, Zamasu being eventually erased by the Zuno is poetic justice. After all his speeches of gods being superior to everyone, having his end come by the hand of the highest one is the ultimate irony if you think about it.

All in all, outside of the problems with keeping Trunks relevant, as the whole arc has been built on his reappearence, I think mostly everything else was done very good. My ranking is:

1. Saiyan
2. Piccolo (includes both Daimao and the 23rd Budokai)
3. Freeza
4. Future Trunks

[PsionicWarrior]

A very promising start with intriguing middle arc, more effort on the fireworks than anything else for the final, 9/10 lol

Zamasu is an awesome villain and acquired his place alongside Majin Buu, Cell and Freeza
The animation has been fantastic at parts and the overall visual quality of the show has greatly improved since its beginning
The story has been intriguing I just wish we would have had better character development and up till the end,
Overall more hits than misses for me, even if the misses were pretty big and not that hard to avoid in absolute lol

[MegaBossMan]

Starting off with the arc, I had my reserves going in. An evil Goku, Trunks coming back, it all seemed too regressive and genuinely wouldn't do anything to advance the plot. But I had figured maybe I'd enjoy that aspect, I was always fond of events in Dragon Ball that don't have to be a massive calamity, since constant tension upon constant tension seemed tiring and that was one thing that I applauded Resurrection F for......And this arc managed to completely fool me. From a production standpoint, the visuals were astronomically better and more consistent compared to previous arcs of Super, I know a lot of the highlights from general crowd reaction were based around the moments Shida animated but through and throughout, I enjoyed a lot of the episodes from an art and animation standpoint. We had a few episodes that didn't look as strong but that was for the sake of building other episodes so I easily forgive it. But a pattern I hope to see continued as well would have to be the music. I'll admit I'm not fond of using synthesizer-styled tracks to help build tone in TV shows, there are contexts where it works, but for something like Super I never quite liked that approach. Yet we got to hear some stellar new tracks come out of this arc! One thing I'd like to see improved from that, however, is to maybe make a few more tracks next major arc. I understand a composer can have difficulty in his work, but while I enjoy tracks like Desperate Assault I enjoy them a little less after the 50th time it's been played in an arc.

Moving on to character writing, development and moments, I think the Future Trunks arc easily takes the cake compared to other arc. I won't be shy in saying I was entertained by characters like Zamasu and Goku Black, and they really were the proper villains to explore the dynamic of "God vs. Mortal" with and I thoroughly enjoyed that. I could go on for hours on end claiming my enjoyment of our two main villains, but anything I could say in those hours have already been elaborated upon by other members surely and I'm not one to harp on the same points. I think the only moment I stopped enjoying Zamasu was during the final episode when he turns into his universal form, I tended to enjoy his drawn-out speeches and I even liked how he began to break down in rage against Trunks in his final battle, but he loses his magnificence when he's relegated to just laughing. Sure, he was breaking down in his fight against Trunks, but he so quickly lost my attention when he basically became a laughing, tacky wallpaper. A shame too, a Zamasu encompassing the entire universe really did sound like a good idea, but the execution wasn't fun at all. Not to mention that when Zen'o finally finished him off....Where's the fun in any of that? The entire arc builds up the mortals and what they can do and that they have meaning, but all of that is thrown aside in favor of God vs. Bigger God? What? I'm sorry, but there's nothing poetic in the slightest about that. Not to mention that everyone in Trunk's timeline just dies. I feel like it was just writing that continued trying to raise the stakes over and over, but then that basically wrote everyone into a wall. I know Super didn't have stakes before and I enjoy the fact that some stakes were brought in here, but there's a point where it's too much. I would've much preferred to just see Trunks and Mai stay in the present timeline and cast for an arc, and then finding some magic mcguffin to bring back their world or something. Not "Well our friends technically exist in another universe, good enough"? It'd be a good ending for anything else and definitely feels like something out of Rick and Morty, but for Dragon Ball...It's not even unconventionally good, it's just downright depressing. But to note some positives, we had a lot of fun character closures and development that came from this. I genuinely felt bad for Gowasu and I kinda want to see him return, and in the grand scheme of things he was only a background character. Trunks finally gets to be useful after having absolutely no moments in the Android/Cell arc besides slicing Frieza and being made a fool out of by Cell, so I'm glad to see that he finally gets wrapped up as well. Unfortunately to stay relevant he had to get a few awkward power-ups, but as long as one day we actually get a valid explanation I think I can set that aside. Like I said, the boy needs his moments. Props to this arc for making me feel bad for the human characters, most of DBZ displays them as ungrateful and idiotic so to see the humans actually get a human side really helped for justifying and strengthening characters like Mai and Trunks.

Overall, just a lot of fun moments in this arc. I thought it was one hell of a ride, and while it was short-lived I loved Vegito's appearance, I loved that we happened to get an explanation for Buu in Trunks's timeline, just a lot of fan-servicey moments that I enjoyed. I thought besides the whole Zen'o shebang at the end, I enjoyed the arc. There was a lot of fun concepts at play here from start to end, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm sure there's more negatives for me to note, of course, but at the moment the ending's really distracting me from thinking about any of those.

[Kamen Rider Revolver]

Honestly? The arc's done nothing to improve my low opinion on Super as a whole. In fact, when it comes to Super's habit of "screwing up things from the original story," the Trunks arc has ended up the worst offender by far. Dropping the ball with stuff like the kid's ages and and minor details from the manga's epilogue is NOTHING compared to outright ruining the hard-earned happy ending for Trunks after the Cell arc.

There were some cool bits, like Zamas as a character concept and some of the fights. But that's not enough to outweigh the convoluted time-travel story, the ass-pull powerups, the completely pointless waste of Vegetto, and of course the dreariest ending of a Dragon Ball arc to date.

Then of course the "soft-serve" icing on this crap cake was Trunks' creepy romance with Mai, who's actually older than his mother, who of course was also killed off. But naturally Mai is the only other survivor of his universe in the end, so their not-fooling-anybody-about-their-real-ages fling can continue in some other reality. Add the sprinkles of Goku's character flanderization on top, and you've got a putrid dessert that's en route right into the trashcan.

At this point I don't really care who's writing this stuff anymore, be it Toei's people or Toriyama himself. It's just bad, regardless.

Have to agree. I hate to say this simply because I don't want to downplay people's opinions, but it feels like people are really soft on Super. When it commits the same crimes GT did. This arc had a very strong start with good ideas on exploring the Kais, but the middle was not good. Particualrly it felt like dragged going back and fourth in the future. Not to mention the leaps in power Trunks took to keep him relevant. I also don't like that Pillaf and his gang were forced to be around. Like enough already, his relationship with Mai is not cute and had no reason to be a thing. Overall the arc for me is an 6/10

[omaro34]

It was alright. Gowasu reminds me of Kami.

The Arc as a whole had such great potential at the start, but as the Arc went on it got worse. Them literally going back and forth through time annoyed me, as well as Goku's absent mind forgetting key things. Piccolo's suggestion of the Mafuba was brilliant and had they brought the seal with them, this arc would have been over.

I also had a big problem with our heroes relying on the Gods too much. Goku resorting to calling Zeno meant that Zamasu had won, and it just ruined the tension for me. He could have called Zeno a long time ago.

The time travelling in this Arc was difficult to grasp. Trunks starting from super saiyan 2 to god knows what without a decent explanation was a problem too.

The last episode would have been so much better if they ended it with Trunks slicing Zamasu in half. That would have saved the survivors and of course Zeno's appearance which meant doomsday. Goku can then choose Goten or even a funnier option in Piccolo to be Zeno's friend in the present (would have been hilarious, I mean Piccolo is a great babysitter).

Vegito's cameo was annoying too. But the highlight was Zamasu's development. Dragonball has never developed a villain to the extent of Zamasu.

All in all, 6.5/10.

[Totamo]

Honestly? The arc's done nothing to improve my low opinion on Super as a whole. In fact, when it comes to Super's habit of "screwing up things from the original story," the Trunks arc has ended up the worst offender by far. Dropping the ball with stuff like the kid's ages and and minor details from the manga's epilogue is NOTHING compared to outright ruining the hard-earned happy ending for Trunks after the Cell arc.

There were some cool bits, like Zamas as a character concept and some of the fights. But that's not enough to outweigh the convoluted time-travel story, the ass-pull powerups, the completely pointless waste of Vegetto, and of course the dreariest ending of a Dragon Ball arc to date.

Then of course the "soft-serve" icing on this crap cake was Trunks' creepy romance with Mai, who's actually older than his mother, who of course was also killed off. But naturally Mai is the only other survivor of his universe in the end, so their not-fooling-anybody-about-their-real-ages fling can continue in some other reality. Add the sprinkles of Goku's character flanderization on top, and you've got a putrid dessert that's en route right into the trashcan.

At this point I don't really care who's writing this stuff anymore, be it Toei's people or Toriyama himself. It's just bad, regardless.

Have to agree. I hate to say this simply because I don't want to downplay people's opinions, but it feels like people are really soft on Super. When it commits the same crimes GT did. This arc had a very strong start with good ideas on exploring the Kais, but the middle was not good. Particualrly it felt like dragged going back and fourth in the future. Not to mention the leaps in power Trunks took to keep him relevant. I also don't like that Pillaf and his gang were forced to be around. Like enough already, his relationship with Mai is not cute and had no reason to be a thing. Overall the arc for me is an 6/10

I don't know about you but most dbtuberd are throughly pissed off with this show, many will stop reviewing the show all together.

super is polurizing

[amuroray]

Terrible just terrible. Fan fiction and bad fan fiction at that. Stupid power ups, awful plot with no direction boring characters.

I have had it. Theres nothing in this. Just an awful show

[Totamo]

Terrible just terrible. Fan fiction and bad fan fiction at that. Stupid power ups, awful plot with no direction boring characters.

I have had it. Theres nothing in this. Just an awful show

so you going to stop watching

[FoolsGil]

Let me put it like this. You know how the Mass Effect Trilogy is nothing but awesome until like the last ten to twenty minutes? That's this Super Arc.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Leaving me very curious as to where this would fall had it been part of the original run of manga. I wonder if its something that would occur to Toriyama at the time.

It did well by Vegeta and Future Trunks, certainly! Zamasu, while not taking the direction I would have taken a villain of his sort in Dragon Ball, worked out, and Gowasu served that cause better than I expected. Black was a great movie villain- rule of cool to the max but not really around to do anything else- I don't feel he qualifies to be in the running for best villain any more than, say, Cooler does. The attempt at a mystery plot, the Black resistance movement, Gowasu and Zamasu's grade-school platonic dialogs, and the multiple instances of nonsensical anime apocalyptic imagery are all new ideas for Dragon Ball. The nigh-triumphant return of the Mafuba was welcome. And of course the arc has what is likely one of the series best animated fight scenes and the single best instance of scene-setting in the entire franchise (Whatever episode Black's reveal was): it is almost beyond reproach to conclude that had Toei not blown his cover to hook the arc, Black would be a strong contender for best villainous introduction for sheer framing.

But then you offset all of this by such a warped story structure that the arc cannot quite find the time to do anything it wants to do beyond Vegeta being pretty solid whenever the story insists its not his turn to fight. Ekrolo once expressed that it doesn't feel like a complete story, and I have to agree. "Z-era" Dragon Ball has yet to write a non-tournament arc that is not advanced by repeated power-ups.

[Cipher]

I feel like I'm of the opposite opinion to most here, where I thought this storyline was mediocre-to-frustrating throughout most of its run, outside of the mystery element, but was brought up by a really good ending.

[Hellspawn28]

Then of course the "soft-serve" icing on this crap cake was Trunks' creepy romance with Mai, who's actually older than his mother

I'm not a fan of it neither, but people where okay with GT Kid Goku being marry to Chi Chi, who was in her 50's. I can understand the idea of Kid Mai having feelings for Kid Trunks, but at least Future Mai and Future Trunks are both adults despite the large age gap.

[precita]

Why are people still bothered by the Mai romance? Why on earth would this matter to anyone? She was de-aged. It doesn't matter that she's really a 50+ year old woman.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I feel like I'm of the opposite opinion to most here, where I thought this storyline was mediocre-to-frustrating throughout most of its run, outside of the mystery element, but was brought up by a really good ending.

I had just mentioned that. Since Zamasu and Black had no issue sticking to the future timeline, and our characters could simply jump ship if they could not win the battle, it felt like the later arc spent two of every four episodes building up to one time jump or another and very little was allowed to actually happen. Beyond me how anyone can say Trunks had character progression beyond mending things with Vegeta.

The best thing I can say about the ending is that it used that "hammerspace" to do the unthinkable. And all I can say is... well played.

[DanielSSJ]

Not a big fan, to be honest. Zamasu isn't nearly as interesting or entertaining as he should be. The power-ups that Trunks gets to become relevant come completely out of left field with zero build-up or explanation and that goes for both Super Saiyan I-can't-believe-it's-not-Blue and the Genki Dama Sword. The Mafuba plotline went nowhere. Vegetto was poorly utilized and I strongly dislike the Potara retcon for several reasons.

All of that could be forgiven if it weren't for the ending, where when Zamasu get's too powerful, Omni-King just shows up and blows the whole Universe to smithereens. The whole point of the arc was about Trunks trying to protect his world, and when Zamasu becomes too much for them, they say, "Well this world is fucked, why don't we just go to some near-identical parallel timeline and just hang out there?" It would've been great that if they lead into the next story arc by having the good guys plan to use the Super Dragon Balls to restore Trunks' world. Maybe they would travel through both Universe 6 and 7, from planet to planet searching for them, allowing use to visit some of the U6 guys, like Cabba or Hit. Maybe they would hold another Multiversal Tournament and have the Super Dragon Balls be the prize, and Trunks would have to be a participant. Anything would be better that what we got, in my opinion.

[precita]

All of that could be forgiven if it weren't for the ending, where when Zamasu get's too powerful, Omni-King just shows up and blows the whole Universe to smithereens. The whole point of the arc was about Trunks trying to protect his world, and when Zamasu becomes too much for them, they say, "Well this world is fucked, why don't we just go to some near-identical parallel timeline and just hang out there?" It would've been great that if they lead into the next story arc by having the good guys plan to use the Super Dragon Balls to restore Trunks' world. Maybe they would travel through both Universe 6 and 7, from planet to planet searching for them, allowing use to visit some of the U6 guys, like Cabba or Hit. Maybe they would hold another Multiversal Tournament and have the Super Dragon Balls be the prize, and Trunks would have to be a participant. Anything would be better that what we got, in my opinion.

So again, this boils down to people being bothered by the fact that everything didn't get a nice happy ending? Trunks world doesn't have to be saved. They don't have to use the dragonball to restore everyone who died.

The ending of the saga is perfectly fine, people are just expecting some nice happy ending but that's not a flaw.