I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:04 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Abra kadabra wrote:He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live, let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious, gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight, threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc. I'm sure I'm missing a few and that just in Z.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time :clap:
Why do any of these things make him a 'bad character'? Maybe he would be a 'bad person' in real life, but how is he a 'bad character' within the context of fictionality?
Isn't it obvious? Because the show expects us to like this fucking asshole.
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:47 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Kishido » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:02 pm

"I am the dick of the universe 7. I am the answer to all living things that cry out after being erased . I am the destroyer of the innocent in other universes. I am the darkness in the light. I am truth. CARE FOR NO ONE! NIGHTMARE TO YOU"

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:10 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
Gokuu isn't a real person, he's a character in fiction. He doesn't have to be the sort to really care about that sort of thing, especially when he isn't actually responsible for the act you are accusing him of. It's okay to like characters who go against real-world morality. That's the very purpose for which fiction was conceptualized. Fiction is fiction because the rules of reality do not have to apply in any sort of consistent context. Fiction is merely a canvas for expressing ideas. I find it concerning that internet users in general seem incapable of separating the two.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
Gokuu isn't a real person, he's a character in fiction. He doesn't have to be the sort to really care about that sort of thing, especially when he isn't actually responsible for the act you are accusing him of. It's okay to like characters who go against real-world morality. That's the very purpose for which fiction was conceptualized. Fiction is fiction because the rules of reality do not have to apply in any sort of consistent context. Fiction is merely a canvas for expressing ideas. I find it concerning that internet users in general seem incapable of separating the two.
So you're saying if a show wanted us to root for a serial child rapist or something like that, you would be perfectly fine with liking him and rooting for him because it's fiction? OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T

It has NOTHING to do with separating fiction from reality. It has to do with main characters being likable. That's some pretty simple shit, dude. -_-

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:27 pm

TekTheNinja wrote: So you're saying if a show wanted us to root for a serial child rapist or something like that, you would be perfectly fine with liking him and rooting for him because it's fiction? OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T

It has NOTHING to do with separating fiction from reality. It has to do with main characters being likable. That's some pretty simple shit, dude. -_-
The show doesnt force us to like a character, its you who choose to like which character, be it the bad guy or the good guys, a sidekick, a pet or something, hell this arc is insinuating that U11 is the Justice League that are the good guys who fights for peace and justice whereas Goku and his team are sort of the bad guys.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:43 pm

SansrivaaL wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote: So you're saying if a show wanted us to root for a serial child rapist or something like that, you would be perfectly fine with liking him and rooting for him because it's fiction? OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T

It has NOTHING to do with separating fiction from reality. It has to do with main characters being likable. That's some pretty simple shit, dude. -_-
The show doesnt force us to like a character, its you who choose to like which character, be it the bad guy or the good guys, a sidekick, a pet or something, hell this arc is insinuating that U11 is the Justice League that are the good guys who fights for peace and justice whereas Goku and his team are sort of the bad guys.
The show clearly still wants us to like goku and acts as if his assholishness is charming or some shit.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TheGodfather93 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:16 pm

Basako wrote:Nah, he is good, has saved the world multiple times and has done so many selfless actions. Let's just remember some: he helped the turtle to get to the sea, crushed the RR army saving the world, resurrected Bora, killed Piccolo Daimao saving the world, let Piccolo junior live to save Kami with great results, sacrificed himself to kill Raditz, huge part defeating Nappa and Vegeta, let Vegeta live because his intuition which proved right, defeated Freezer in Namek and, don't forget, he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, he trained his son for one year where he noticed he was able to defeat Cell, sacrificed himself to save the world when Cell was going to explode, teached Goten and Trunks the fusion, huge part saving the world against kid Boo, saved the world against Beerus, huge part saving the world against Golden Freezer, huge part saving all ningens against Zamasu...

So what you talking about? He is a fucking selfless hero.

He gave Cell a senzu, yeah, because he trusted his son could do it and he was right. Not in vain he spent a whole year training with him, being a better father than Vegeta has ever been for now. Remember how Vegeta trained with future Trunks in ther RoSaT? Each one on his own, if that's being a good father, let god see that. Not to mention he let second form Cell get 18 when he could have killed him. Also, he killed hundreds of people just because he wanted to fight Goku, without even considering how this could affect his son Trunks and that fight was what caused Boo's resurrection. Goku just made Shin go away, because he saw Vegeta was not giving any other way out. What was he gonna do? Let Vegeta kill more hundreds in the other side of the stadium? No, he made Shin let them fight because selfish Vegeta was not giving another chance.

Goku is not a perfect father, but when he is not absent, he is a good one. Vegeta, it's clear he has become a better father now, he finally trained with future Trunks for real and just look how he is there for the birth of Bra. But he wasn't like that before, he has changed. By the way, Goku was there for Gohan's birth and first four years, which nobody seem to remember, saved his life uncountable times plus training for three years before the androids along with Piccolo. He has also been spending time with Goten since the death of Boo to this days in Super.
So Goku was selfless when he brushed off Bulma's idea to use the Dragon Balls to find Dr Gero's location, so they could stop him before he even created the androids? Because it's such a selfless thing to want to fight a pair of sadistic mass murderers who, in another timeline, subjected Earth to decades of terror and killed his family and friends, right? Yep, sure was selfless of Goku to not care about the innocent people he was putting in danger by letting Gero finish building the androids.

Also, Goku didn't have any intuition that Vegeta would go on to become a good guy when he let him escape from Earth. Goku simply wanted to fight Vegeta again, despite the fact that Vegeta was responsible for the death of several of his friends, nearly killed his son, wanted to destroy the Earth, and even claimed he would come back to do so.

Goku has his moments of greatness, but he also has moments of complete and utter selfishness. He cares for his family and friends, but he has his own moral code, and isn't above putting others in danger to sate his Saiyan tendencies and battle lust. He is by no means an archetypal hero character; he is a hero by circumstance, and that's what makes him so compelling as a protagonist.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Basako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:31 am

TheGodfather93 wrote: So Goku was selfless when he brushed off Bulma's idea to use the Dragon Balls to find Dr Gero's location, so they could stop him before he even created the androids? Because it's such a selfless thing to want to fight a pair of sadistic mass murderers who, in another timeline, subjected Earth to decades of terror and killed his family and friends, right? Yep, sure was selfless of Goku to not care about the innocent people he was putting in danger by letting Gero finish building the androids.

Also, Goku didn't have any intuition that Vegeta would go on to become a good guy when he let him escape from Earth. Goku simply wanted to fight Vegeta again, despite the fact that Vegeta was responsible for the death of several of his friends, nearly killed his son, wanted to destroy the Earth, and even claimed he would come back to do so.

Goku has his moments of greatness, but he also has moments of complete and utter selfishness. He cares for his family and friends, but he has his own moral code, and isn't above putting others in danger to sate his Saiyan tendencies and battle lust. He is by no means an archetypal hero character; he is a hero by circumstance, and that's what makes him so compelling as a protagonist.
When Bulma though about destroying Gero's lab, the first one opposing was Vegeta, so if you want ot put that on someone, why not on him? The truth is it was a consensus, Goku agreed, as well as Tenshinhan and Krilin by voice, others by not opposing. So that's not on Goku, at least not alone, they all decided to train for three years and fight. By the way, the androids ended up being friends or more than friends in the case of 18.

Ok, it's true that Goku decided to let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight again, not for intuition that he was going to become good or anything, I just checked the manga. We could say he could have put others in risk that time, although we have to say also that Vegeta became a necessary ally in Namek, that Goku surpassed him during the next two months as he said he would and that Vegeta ended up being his friend, husband of Bulma and father of Trunks and Bra.

Goku is a hero for his actions, go and see the list I posted before. It's not his battle lust what has endangered things most times, it was his forgiveness for the enemies. Which sometimes worked out fine, others didn't. He was too innocent letting off Raditz's tail or letting Freezer go, which I repeat he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, but that was not for battle lust, was for excessive goodnes or innocence. Piccolo is not the same case, because Kami's life was at risk there too and he wanted to keep him alive and he was stronger than the enemy then.

On the other hand, we have Vegeta leting Cell absorb 18 and leting Babidi affect him just to fight Goku, being totally conscious that their fight would unseal Boo, not to mention he killed hundreds of people to make the point. There, that's selfish. So, at least Vegeta is worse than him by those standars, we should change the title of the post to "Vegeta is the worst character in this show".

Goku asking Zeno for the tournament. First, the tournament was Zeno's idea in the first place because he liked what Beerus and Champa did. Really, how could he know that Zeno would make up that rule? Saying Zeno is unpredictable is not enough. Beerus is too and there we have Bulma calling him every now and then, although she knows he blasts planets for stupid reasons.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:38 am

TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
Correction: How am I supposed to root for a supposed "hero" who endangers 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Basako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:50 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
You haven't answered the question at all. What's preventing you from liking this character? Why hold his attributes against him, as if his type of character is 'factually unable' to be a 'good character'?
Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
Correction: How am I supposed to root for a supposed "hero" who endangers 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
You are not supposed to like anyone or root for anything, you clearly don't like Goku, as many others. Is not Goku endangering 11 universes, is Zeno, look again Goku's face when Zeno explains the rule, proving he does give a shit. The tournament was not Goku's idea, less the rule about erasing universes that he would have never accepted. He just reminded him without knowing he would make up that rule and you don't even want to consider that Zeno could have remembered about the tournament on his own anyway.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:41 pm

Basako wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote: Are you kidding me? How could I like a character who dooms 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
Correction: How am I supposed to root for a supposed "hero" who endangers 11 universes and doesn't give a shit?
You are not supposed to like anyone or root for anything, you clearly don't like Goku, as many others. Is not Goku endangering 11 universes, is Zeno, look again Goku's face when Zeno explains the rule, proving he does give a shit. The tournament was not Goku's idea, less the rule about erasing universes that he would have never accepted. He just reminded him without knowing he would make up that rule and you don't even want to consider that Zeno could have remembered about the tournament on his own anyway.
He doesn't react NEARLY as seriously a DB, DBZ, or DBGT Goku would have. He's just like, "Lol whoops! Lol, don't scold me, I already heard an earful from Beerus. It's fine that 11 universes will die as long as we live!"

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by GTx10 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:53 pm

Son Goku is being written as a typical 2000's era Shonen hero. Loud, mindless adrenaline, and always happy. Super Sentai has been having a similar problems with some of its Red Rangers lately. People have issues with the Toei Shonen written Son Goku.
Toyo's Goku is more closer to Toriyama's Goku. Remember that Super is aimed at kids and Japan feels that over stimulated heroes is what the kids want. As long as Son Goku is ready to jump into action and transform then Toei will keep selling him. If we were kids we'd all think Son Goku is awesome.
But we're not the target demographic, but rather angry nerds.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:14 pm

GTx10 wrote:Son Goku is being written as a typical 2000's era Shonen hero. Loud, mindless adrenaline, and always happy. Super Sentai has been having a similar problems with some of its Red Rangers lately. People have issues with the Toei Shonen written Son Goku.
Toyo's Goku is more closer to Toriyama's Goku. Remember that Super is aimed at kids and Japan feels that over stimulated heroes is what the kids want. As long as Son Goku is ready to jump into action and transform then Toei will keep selling him. If we were kids we'd all think Son Goku is awesome.
But we're not the target demographic, but rather angry nerds.
So basically we are the ones here at fault for not being able to let go of our version of character and go with what they do to it now....?
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Basako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:04 pm

TekTheNinja wrote: He doesn't react NEARLY as seriously a DB, DBZ, or DBGT Goku would have. He's just like, "Lol whoops! Lol, don't scold me, I already heard an earful from Beerus. It's fine that 11 universes will die as long as we live!"
You made up those lines about his thoughts. His reaction is a clear shock.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by SansrivaaL » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Basako wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote: He doesn't react NEARLY as seriously a DB, DBZ, or DBGT Goku would have. He's just like, "Lol whoops! Lol, don't scold me, I already heard an earful from Beerus. It's fine that 11 universes will die as long as we live!"
You made up those lines about his thoughts. His reaction is a clear shock.
Not to mention he was shaking along with Beerus and the others (except Whis)

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TheGodfather93 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Basako wrote:
TheGodfather93 wrote: So Goku was selfless when he brushed off Bulma's idea to use the Dragon Balls to find Dr Gero's location, so they could stop him before he even created the androids? Because it's such a selfless thing to want to fight a pair of sadistic mass murderers who, in another timeline, subjected Earth to decades of terror and killed his family and friends, right? Yep, sure was selfless of Goku to not care about the innocent people he was putting in danger by letting Gero finish building the androids.

Also, Goku didn't have any intuition that Vegeta would go on to become a good guy when he let him escape from Earth. Goku simply wanted to fight Vegeta again, despite the fact that Vegeta was responsible for the death of several of his friends, nearly killed his son, wanted to destroy the Earth, and even claimed he would come back to do so.

Goku has his moments of greatness, but he also has moments of complete and utter selfishness. He cares for his family and friends, but he has his own moral code, and isn't above putting others in danger to sate his Saiyan tendencies and battle lust. He is by no means an archetypal hero character; he is a hero by circumstance, and that's what makes him so compelling as a protagonist.
When Bulma though about destroying Gero's lab, the first one opposing was Vegeta, so if you want ot put that on someone, why not on him? The truth is it was a consensus, Goku agreed, as well as Tenshinhan and Krilin by voice, others by not opposing. So that's not on Goku, at least not alone, they all decided to train for three years and fight. By the way, the androids ended up being friends or more than friends in the case of 18.

Ok, it's true that Goku decided to let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight again, not for intuition that he was going to become good or anything, I just checked the manga. We could say he could have put others in risk that time, although we have to say also that Vegeta became a necessary ally in Namek, that Goku surpassed him during the next two months as he said he would and that Vegeta ended up being his friend, husband of Bulma and father of Trunks and Bra.

Goku is a hero for his actions, go and see the list I posted before. It's not his battle lust what has endangered things most times, it was his forgiveness for the enemies. Which sometimes worked out fine, others didn't. He was too innocent letting off Raditz's tail or letting Freezer go, which I repeat he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, but that was not for battle lust, was for excessive goodnes or innocence. Piccolo is not the same case, because Kami's life was at risk there too and he wanted to keep him alive and he was stronger than the enemy then.

On the other hand, we have Vegeta leting Cell absorb 18 and leting Babidi affect him just to fight Goku, being totally conscious that their fight would unseal Boo, not to mention he killed hundreds of people to make the point. There, that's selfish. So, at least Vegeta is worse than him by those standars, we should change the title of the post to "Vegeta is the worst character in this show".

Goku asking Zeno for the tournament. First, the tournament was Zeno's idea in the first place because he liked what Beerus and Champa did. Really, how could he know that Zeno would make up that rule? Saying Zeno is unpredictable is not enough. Beerus is too and there we have Bulma calling him every now and then, although she knows he blasts planets for stupid reasons.
I'm not absolving Vegeta of any blame, but the difference between him and Goku is that Vegeta was still a dick at that time. He wasn't the Z Warriors' friend, or companion, or anything of the sort. In that regard, it's understandable that he wanted to fight the androids, since he hadn't being humanised by that point, and was being his usual assholish Saiyan self. Goku, meanwhile, was someone who grew up on Earth, and had strong connections with people on the planet like his friends and family. And yet, despite all that, he still agreed with Vegeta. Piccolo and Tenshinhan were dumbasses too, and Krillin could also shoulder some of the blame for changing his initial stance, but this topic isn't about them. It's about Goku, and the fact remains that he, along with his buddies and Vegeta, put the Earth and everyone they cared about in danger just because they wanted to fight against the androids. Heck, they didn't even have to kill Dr Gero. They could've just arrested him and destroyed his research. And if they didn't want to use the Dragon Balls, they could've just gone to Baba and asked for the location of Gero's lab. She's demonstrated in Dragon Ball that she can find things that are hidden with her crystal ball.

Goku was lucky that Vegeta ended up being a reluctant ally on Namek, who would later become one of the Z Warriors, and would go on to marry Bulma. He was also lucky that the main timeline's androids were so mellow in comparison to their future counterparts, and that 18 was a good enough person to marry Krillin. But all that was down to luck - and plot, of course. Story-wise, Goku didn't even have the slightest idea that these things would happen. No, his decisions both times were motivated solely by his Saiyan desire to fight strong opponents.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Kanassa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:10 pm

TheGodfather93 wrote: Goku was lucky that Vegeta ended up being a reluctant ally on Namek, who would later become one of the Z Warriors, and would go on to marry Bulma. He was also lucky that the main timeline's androids were so mellow in comparison to their future counterparts, and that 18 was a good enough person to marry Krillin. But all that was down to luck - and plot, of course. Story-wise, Goku didn't even have the slightest idea that these things would happen. No, his decisions both times were motivated solely by his Saiyan desire to fight strong opponents.
Yeah, his decisions should be judged by his knowledge and attitude at the time of making the decision, not on outcomes that he himself didn't predict happening. Yeah, Vegeta turned out good, but Goku didn't know that would happen. Yes, the Androids turned out good, but again, Goku didn't know that would happen. These are outcomes that were extremely unlikely to occur and that Goku didn't consider.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Basako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:12 pm

TheGodfather93 wrote:
Basako wrote:
TheGodfather93 wrote: So Goku was selfless when he brushed off Bulma's idea to use the Dragon Balls to find Dr Gero's location, so they could stop him before he even created the androids? Because it's such a selfless thing to want to fight a pair of sadistic mass murderers who, in another timeline, subjected Earth to decades of terror and killed his family and friends, right? Yep, sure was selfless of Goku to not care about the innocent people he was putting in danger by letting Gero finish building the androids.

Also, Goku didn't have any intuition that Vegeta would go on to become a good guy when he let him escape from Earth. Goku simply wanted to fight Vegeta again, despite the fact that Vegeta was responsible for the death of several of his friends, nearly killed his son, wanted to destroy the Earth, and even claimed he would come back to do so.

Goku has his moments of greatness, but he also has moments of complete and utter selfishness. He cares for his family and friends, but he has his own moral code, and isn't above putting others in danger to sate his Saiyan tendencies and battle lust. He is by no means an archetypal hero character; he is a hero by circumstance, and that's what makes him so compelling as a protagonist.
When Bulma though about destroying Gero's lab, the first one opposing was Vegeta, so if you want ot put that on someone, why not on him? The truth is it was a consensus, Goku agreed, as well as Tenshinhan and Krilin by voice, others by not opposing. So that's not on Goku, at least not alone, they all decided to train for three years and fight. By the way, the androids ended up being friends or more than friends in the case of 18.

Ok, it's true that Goku decided to let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight again, not for intuition that he was going to become good or anything, I just checked the manga. We could say he could have put others in risk that time, although we have to say also that Vegeta became a necessary ally in Namek, that Goku surpassed him during the next two months as he said he would and that Vegeta ended up being his friend, husband of Bulma and father of Trunks and Bra.

Goku is a hero for his actions, go and see the list I posted before. It's not his battle lust what has endangered things most times, it was his forgiveness for the enemies. Which sometimes worked out fine, others didn't. He was too innocent letting off Raditz's tail or letting Freezer go, which I repeat he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, but that was not for battle lust, was for excessive goodnes or innocence. Piccolo is not the same case, because Kami's life was at risk there too and he wanted to keep him alive and he was stronger than the enemy then.

On the other hand, we have Vegeta leting Cell absorb 18 and leting Babidi affect him just to fight Goku, being totally conscious that their fight would unseal Boo, not to mention he killed hundreds of people to make the point. There, that's selfish. So, at least Vegeta is worse than him by those standars, we should change the title of the post to "Vegeta is the worst character in this show".

Goku asking Zeno for the tournament. First, the tournament was Zeno's idea in the first place because he liked what Beerus and Champa did. Really, how could he know that Zeno would make up that rule? Saying Zeno is unpredictable is not enough. Beerus is too and there we have Bulma calling him every now and then, although she knows he blasts planets for stupid reasons.
I'm not absolving Vegeta of any blame, but the difference between him and Goku is that Vegeta was still a dick at that time. He wasn't the Z Warriors' friend, or companion, or anything of the sort. In that regard, it's understandable that he wanted to fight the androids, since he hadn't being humanised by that point, and was being his usual assholish Saiyan self. Goku, meanwhile, was someone who grew up on Earth, and had strong connections with people on the planet like his friends and family. And yet, despite all that, he still agreed with Vegeta. Piccolo and Tenshinhan were dumbasses too, and Krillin could also shoulder some of the blame for changing his initial stance, but this topic isn't about them. It's about Goku, and the fact remains that he, along with his buddies and Vegeta, put the Earth and everyone they cared about in danger just because they wanted to fight against the androids. Heck, they didn't even have to kill Dr Gero. They could've just arrested him and destroyed his research. And if they didn't want to use the Dragon Balls, they could've just gone to Baba and asked for the location of Gero's lab. She's demonstrated in Dragon Ball that she can find things that are hidden with her crystal ball.

Goku was lucky that Vegeta ended up being a reluctant ally on Namek, who would later become one of the Z Warriors, and would go on to marry Bulma. He was also lucky that the main timeline's androids were so mellow in comparison to their future counterparts, and that 18 was a good enough person to marry Krillin. But all that was down to luck - and plot, of course. Story-wise, Goku didn't even have the slightest idea that these things would happen. No, his decisions both times were motivated solely by his Saiyan desire to fight strong opponents.
You put the blame of not destroying Gero's lab entirily on Goku first, which is not correct. What happened was that all fighters agreed and make similar decisions, they seek fight and like chanllenge. Even if you give a pass to Vegeta for letting the androids be done, it's still not just Goku, it's Piccolo, Ten and Krilin too. I agree that Vegeta was still a dick during all the Cell arc, I understand that he had to evolve from his previous life, but he still was. But what he did in the Boo arc, he had lived with Earthlings for a while by then and he didn't even consider how it would affect Bulma and his son him becoming a mass murderer again and he unsealed Majin Boo. As far as we know, Goku followed Shin's way untill Vegeta didn't give him other choice.

About letting Vegeta live, it's all said. It's true he took a risk, but it's also true he surpassed him fast, as he promised to Krilin he would and that Vegeta turned to be an ally against Freezer. All has to be said.

So, yes, he decided to let enemies live to fight them, first time on his own, second time on a consensus with the rest and both times it turned that those enemies became friends.
Kanassa wrote:
TheGodfather93 wrote: Goku was lucky that Vegeta ended up being a reluctant ally on Namek, who would later become one of the Z Warriors, and would go on to marry Bulma. He was also lucky that the main timeline's androids were so mellow in comparison to their future counterparts, and that 18 was a good enough person to marry Krillin. But all that was down to luck - and plot, of course. Story-wise, Goku didn't even have the slightest idea that these things would happen. No, his decisions both times were motivated solely by his Saiyan desire to fight strong opponents.
Yeah, his decisions should be judged by his knowledge and attitude at the time of making the decision, not on outcomes that he himself didn't predict happening. Yeah, Vegeta turned out good, but Goku didn't know that would happen. Yes, the Androids turned out good, but again, Goku didn't know that would happen. These are outcomes that were extremely unlikely to occur and that Goku didn't consider.

Yeah, but Goku also promised that he would surpass Vegeta, which he did and the same for the androids. Again, not destroying the androids was a consensus between all the fighters, not just Goku, so don't put that just on him, be fair.
Last edited by Basako on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by GTx10 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:10 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
GTx10 wrote:Son Goku is being written as a typical 2000's era Shonen hero. Loud, mindless adrenaline, and always happy. Super Sentai has been having a similar problems with some of its Red Rangers lately. People have issues with the Toei Shonen written Son Goku.
Toyo's Goku is more closer to Toriyama's Goku. Remember that Super is aimed at kids and Japan feels that over stimulated heroes is what the kids want. As long as Son Goku is ready to jump into action and transform then Toei will keep selling him. If we were kids we'd all think Son Goku is awesome.
But we're not the target demographic, but rather angry nerds.
So basically we are the ones here at fault for not being able to let go of our version of character and go with what they do to it now....?

Yes. If Son Goku isn't written by Toriyama's own hand then he'll never be the same.
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