Would the Dragon Ball series be more respected if Z didn't exist?

[sintzu]

F'n George Lucas

You also have to keep in mind that the companies behind the franchise, both in Japan and America act like it doesn't exist which doesn't help.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

They think it's a prequel and prequels don't have the best reputation here probably thanks to star wars.

And that's the harm American TV stations did to the audiences: They didn't broadcast the show from the start to the end. Doing this solves many problems - believe me.

(Remember Ninja Morusaki ?)

No, but I remember Ninja Murasaki

[sintzu]

No, but I remember Ninja Murasaki

At least I got the ninja part right, at first I wrote Samurai.

[ABED]

Even GT got more attention than DB. There's this odd assumption that because the characters are canonically weaker that the action isn't as good or interesting.

[MasenkoHA]

but it seems like if something isn't 100% action then it's not successful in the U.S. .

That's not really true though.

I mean, yeah, when you look at the biggest hits with kids or at least young boys they tend to be action based:'Transformers, TMNT, Power Rangers, Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh (the latter two aren't that action packed)

but comedy shows can and still do well with kids:Rugrats, Animaniacs, Dexter's Lab,Ren and Stimpy.


And Spongebob is one of the most successful animated shows of all time and has basically no action.

And of course the only adult animated shows that are allowed to succeed are comedy like Simpsons and Family Guy, and South Park. Not that Dragon Ball would have ever beem marketed as an adult cartoon.


I'm actually confused where you get that only action shows succeed in the U.S.

Dragon Ball underperformed because a standard for Dragon Ball Z had been set with ALL ACTION! And the dub further the tonal divide as someone else posted with the dun bgm.


I honesty think Dragon Ball could have done well enough if it had been picked up by Fox Kids or KidsWB.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

(...) at first I wrote Samurai.

At least, you wrote that properly!

[sintzu]

(...) at first I wrote Samurai.

At least, you wrote that properly!

[Cure Dragon 255]

You know, most people write Samurai "Samuri" so he's being pretty kind. You did write that right after all!

Not making fun of you BTW.

[SaiyanZ]

Hell no. Z to me is by far the better written part, better characters, better art, more interesting story, etc. I think the people who say its all about lasers and that the humans are worthless when all but 2 weren't really much to begin with don't really pay attention to what they're reading or watching. As much as I enjoy Beerus and Whis, I definitely think the series should've ended after Z, or at least after Battle of Gods. Removing the Revival of F and Zamasu arcs would be a godsend, and the Vs U6 arc I'd rather just happen in the Universe Survival arc if I could rewrite it.

[Freeza9000]

Funny enough since Goku had more character development in the Z series than DB.

[sintzu]

Not making fun of you BTW.

Yes you are, You're just racist against Vegeta fans.

Z to me is by far the better written part, better characters, better art, more interesting story, etc.

The good thing about Z is that it stands on its own so if someone like you doesn't like the original that much they don't HAVE to watch it. with other anime, if you don't like a big part of it then good luck watching from anywhere other than the start and getting a full experience.

Goku's origin isn't brought up until Z so what you need to know about the main character is there from the start and everyone who's introduced later are the main characters so you're not losing important character development for the main cast.

In terms of everyone/everything else, Z more or less does a good job at bringing people up to speed with what they need to know.

The reaosn Z might be this way is because according to Toryshima, it was a reboot to DB because the original anime wasn't doing that well. By doing this, they managed to bring in new fans, remake DB's image and turn it into a mega hit franchise.

Shows are ususally judged based on their 1st arc so if they didn't split them up then everyone's view of DB would always be the Pilaf arc, not the Saiyan arc.

Funny enough since Goku had the development in the Z series than DB.

Toei got lucky with that cause they couldn't have had a better jumping on point.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Nonononono! I like Vegeta fans. I just wanted to slip that "Samuri" thing. I like you and I dont judge you.

[DBZAOTA482]

Here's another question. Would Dragon Ball have been more respected or gotten more love in the U.S if it aired in its entirety and with decent time slots before DBZ? Instead of showing just the first 13 episodes that most people never saw and skipping straight to Z. And then only running all of Dragon Ball cocurrently with Z's last third and having Toonami's promotions treat it like a Muppet Babies esque spin off rather than the series that came first?

I definitely think it would. I mean Z itself wasn't exactly thriving till it aired on Toonami.

[Bullza]

Dragon Ball Z only gets more hate because it's vastly more popular. Dragon Ball get's a certain kind of love because it's basically the unpopular younger brother.

Dragon Ball is very good too but it just doesn't compare to Z. It has problems just the same.

The Pilaf and Red Ribbon Army sagas were boring. Half of it was just Tournaments. It was a little too silly. The villains aside from Piccolo Jr weren't really that good. The cast were a bit of a mixed bag etc.

[sintzu]

Nonononono! I like Vegeta fans. I just wanted to slip that "Samuri" thing. I like you and I dont judge you.

Yeeeeeees! As we speak, I'm holding a secret meeting with all Vegeta fans to figure out our next move against you.

Dragon Ball Z only gets more hate because it's vastly more popular. Dragon Ball get's a certain kind of love because it's basically the unpopular younger brother.

I think DB is like star wars, The middle movies are the franchise's main product and why people like it (Z), no one cares about the prequels that much (DB) and the new material is a mixed bag like Super, it's financially successful but fans are mixed on it.

[MasenkoHA]

^People despise the prequels. Does anyone actually despise Dragon Ball but love Z?

The reaosn Z might be this way is because according to Toryshima, it was a reboot to DB because the original anime wasn't doing that well. By doing this, they managed to bring in new fans, remake DB's image and turn it into a mega hit franchise.

Even if Z was more popular Dragon Ball ran for 3 years it was clearly doing well enough. So I don't buy that it wasn't doing well.

Not sure how its a reboot. Its a sequel series .



And of course there is Kai which I liken to the second Yu-gi-oh anime, skipping ahead to the more popular part of the manga.

[sintzu]

I don't buy that it wasn't doing well. Not sure how its a reboot. Its a sequel series.

"Even though we tried to make the Dragon Ball anime better than Dr. Slump's, the ratings still went gradually down. We then tried to figure out why that was happening, why the series wasn't doing well. One thing we discovered was that the producer for the Dragon Ball anime was the same as on Dr. Slump. As he had an image of Toriyama's manga as being something cute and funny, which meant his style of Dragon Ball became too similar to Dr. Slump. This meant he was missing the more serious tone we had developed in the Dragon Ball manga. For instance, when I saw the scene in the anime where Goku pierces Piccolo I realized I couldn't work with this producer.

“So I talked with the studio and asked to have the producer changed. This was something that had never happened before, as it was an entirely different company.

“Around the same time, Saint Seiya was a very popular anime. This was interesting because the Saint Seiya manga was rather average but the anime by comparison was a lot better. So I wanted to know why the Saint Seiya anime was doing so well and we did some research on that. We found that there were two key figures. The first was Kouzou Morishita, who was the director, and the second was Takao Koyama, who wrote the script. So I visited these two guys and asked them if they'd help me reboot Dragon Ball and they both agreed.

“In addition to all this, Toriyama was asking to change the character design for Goku, from the cuter proportions to something taller and more muscular.

“All of this was great timing as we had all these staff changes happening in the animation as well. The new anime producer also was very smart and said that if we had a new title, in that Dragon Ball would finish and we'd start a new show, then that meant the anime would get more money for promotion. So we decided to go with the different title and updated characters, with bigger proportions, and we had a meeting for this new title but we couldn't come up with anything good. I went and asked Toriyama for his input and he answered immediately by saying "Dragon Ball Z". I asked "why Z?" and he said "because this is last, nothing comes after this."

[successoroffate]

Traidor! Pense que eras latino! Nosotros empezamos con Dragon Ball SIN Z!

[spoiler]LOL. Broma.[/spoiler]

And I think that since this is a site for the Japanese version its only natural it would still exist since the people who started with the Japanese version dont have the Z hardon foreigners have.

What!!? Don't call me traitor!
This is what I meant, I am attached to DB, as I am to Z, GT and Super so far. I see Goku as the same dumb, naive but noble child from DB, To Bulma's Boobs, all the way to the end of GT 100 years later. That's the reason why GT's episode 64 ending video hits me right in the heart, because of Nostalgia. But I'm saying if there was no Z, that means no Saiyans, which is the key aspect that made DBZ an international hit. No Saiyans means no Successful Kanzenshuu Forum and no DB Super Clickbait Videos in 2017.

That's such reductive thinking to reduce something's popularity to one thing. It's as ridiculous as claiming Batman's popularity is because he's human.

That's not what I meant. The fact that they brought the Saiyan concept is what I believe put the show out there, and by out there I mean the mainstream and the rise in popularity. I love the concept and story of DB just like the other arcs and/or movies (And I was privileged enough to see DB from episode one in my country Venezuela) but I just don't see DB reaching such popularity by itself with no Saiyans or No Z for that matter.

[ABED]

It was more the action than a fictional alien race. Action translates across cultural boundaries. And who is arguing about popularity. We all know Z is the more successful series. What's your point?

The Pilaf and Red Ribbon Army sagas were boring. Half of it was just Tournaments. It was a little too silly. The villains aside from Piccolo Jr weren't really that good. The cast were a bit of a mixed bag etc.

Pilaf is goofy and fun. How dare you, sir.
The Red Ribbon Army is mixed. It has a lot of good and moments such as Tao Pai Pai.
People like tournaments and they were full of some of the best parts of the show
Silly, but fun
Piccolo Daimao is right up there with the best villains in any DB series, and while Tenshinhan wasn't a straight up villain, he was an interesting antagonist.
The cast is just as interesting as Z's cast and I think better utilized.

[VegettoEX]

SJW would have ate early Dragon Ball alive nowadays (admittedly the overt sexualization of Bulma was
a bit much)

You complain about "SJWs" yet time and time again it's been the conservative parents and local politicians that have a problem with the series over here, whereas the liberal folks seem plenty happy to acknowledge the issues it has in historical context while simultaneously defending its availability and right to exist unaltered.

You would stand to gain from reading up a little bit before commenting on issues you don't understand or have any familiarity with.