New Kanzenban Ending - "Daizenshuu EX" Style!

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:47 pm

I just mean that croquet isn't a mainstream popular sport there. It's more like what curling is here, actually, no worse than that, sychronised swimming. Yes, you can't get much worse than that.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:52 pm

But...cricket and rugby? And not, say, the sport that's 50 billion times more popular than either of them?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:56 pm

What, football? I didn't say that one because I figured that's followed widely by people in other places besides England.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:59 pm

Yeah, but so's rugby. And we won a World Cup in that. Which is weird, since we're not suppossed to be any good at any sport. We invent them, let them loose on the world, and then get soundly trounced by every other country at them.

Although the English football league is the most watched in the world. Apparently. Woo.

And it's better than the American trick of taking an existing sport, changing the rules, giving it a new name, and then declaring themselves World Champions.

Post by **TripleRach** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:01 am

We do have soccer in the US. It's just not very popular, in comparison to football, baseball, and basketball. I couldn't name a single US pro soccer team, and I can't think of a school that has a soccer team, either. Though there are schools with volleyball and tennis teams...? Soccer is a hell of a lot more fun than either of those, wtf!

Well, my only concern is pro wrestling, so I'll just go scurry off into a corner now...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:04 am

Yes, rugby is too, but for some reason, it still seems more "English" than football. Don't know why. Or wasn't rugby started by the Scots?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:06 am

I couldn't name a single American Football player though, so it balances out. Almost the entire population could name a couple of football players here, and even casual fans could name a variety of foreign players. But no American football players. Or baseball players. Apart from, say, Babe Ruth, if that counts.

Also, TripleH has been non-shit recently, so I will no longer be staring with anger at your nickname. Rejoice!

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:56 am

I'd take it as Vegeta admitting that Goku is currently the best fighter, but that doesn't mean that he won't stop trying to become better than him.

That doesn`t mean he doesn`t have a complex trying to better. The fact remains. Nothing changed.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:18 am

Vegeta isn't trying to kill Goku anymore, isn't that a change?

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:27 pm

I read too many webcomics.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:37 pm

omae no kaasan wrote:That doesn`t mean he doesn`t have a complex trying to better. The fact remains. Nothing changed.

I agree with Neon Z. There is a world of difference between "I'm going to train and become better than you", and "I'm going to train and become better than you and kill you and your friends and your planet and become immortal and RULE THE UNIVERSE!!!"

SpiritBomb · Post by **SpiritBomb** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:55 pm

Good point, BIG difference.

And yes, Zack, you do read a lot of web comics, always posting them but, hey! I like em so keep em coming!

.....how do you play rugby anyway? bah!

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:51 am

SpiritBomb wrote:.....how do you play rugby anyway? bah!

For a really crude explanation, think of American football, but with no padding, and a lot rougher.(Heh, who says the British aren't tougher?

)

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Sat May 01, 2004 1:11 pm

Frankly, I think Toriyama sort've... dropped the ball with that last panel. The rest of the ending was nice, but no matter how you try to explain it, that last panel doesn't fit in. Just a short time before we saw Vegeta give up his rivalry completely, even deeming Goku "#1," showing that he knew he would never be the better warrior. Then, later, he was friendly with Goku, even joking about how the sum of their worries was lazy children. Explaining it away by saying that Vegeta only meant it as 'defeat' and not 'kill' is grasping at straws. I don't think Toriyama really paid attention to where the story had gone...

If DragonBall was to be revived, even for just a 20th Anniversary Special, I think Toriyama is the last person I'd want to write it. "Saiya-jin? What the heck's a Saiya-jin? Gohan... Gohan... He was the leader of that Red Ribbon whatever-they-were, right?"

An alternate theory, though an unlikely one, could be that he was asked to add that in. I visit lots of Japanese fansites and GT has a very small fanbase, especially GT Vegeta. He tends to be hated more over there than here. Doujinshi and fanart usually ignore GT Vegeta, or alter him to make him look and act more like his late Z self, and essays often go on about why GT Vegeta doesn't count as the true Vegeta. The biggest critique I've seen is over his renewed rivalry with Goku and the way that it didn't fit in with the story. The GT Dragon Box is going to be the last one released, and there's bound to be GT Budokai and LOG games soon, so the adding of that line may have been for the sake of making Z and GT tie in together. It kills any argument over Vegeta (of whom has a massive fanbase), and by effect, GT, as not being canon.

Or, more likely, he was just trying to take up that blank space and figured that it would make the Vegeta fans happy.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat May 01, 2004 2:30 pm

I have to disagree with you Alias. I never saw Vegeta completely back down in his rivalry with Goku. Yeah, accepted that Goku was better, but he still wanted to finally beat him sometime. Not to fix his pride or ego or anything, but just for that heck of it, so that SOMEONE finally beats Goku.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Sat May 01, 2004 4:41 pm

I think he did give it up completely. It couldn't have been just him admitting that Goku was the better warrior, he had already admitted that during his battle with Goku earlier. There wouldn't have been so great a focus on him declaring Goku to be #1 if its meaning was just a repeat of a previous statement. After Kid Buu's defeat, they only remained in contact for a few years. For five years Vegeta never bothered to drop in on Goku, either to see where his progress had led him, or to spar and thus improve his own skills. Vegeta could've achieved SSJ3 over the ten year period, but didn't try to. If he had wanted to achieve similar strength to Goku, he would've pursued that and any stronger form. From the way the ending seemed, Vegeta's focus had switched from battle to family. He was much more social, threatening Trunks with cutting his allowance in half and having a generally friendly air. Besides, just a few pages before that last panel, Vegeta wasn't bothered by Goku leaving. Toriyama just simply lost track.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:03 pm

He wants to beat Goku. Just like he did when Goku showed him up waaaaaaaay back in the 20`s. Kill or not, he still has his Napoleonic complex. DB remains one of the least complex manga ever created.

And also one of the most beloved.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:33 am

You're still very bitter, aren't you? ~_^

Dragon Ball is a fairly complex show, that's why there's so many essays, books, fanfics, debates, etc... If there was nothing in the way of story, then none of this stuff could exist. Ever tried explaining the DB plot and characters to the uninitiated? They get lost within five minutes. There's so much information, story, and depth, that it takes a long time to absorb it all. Sure, there's low points, but the series as a whole is hardly simple.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:44 pm

Bitter? No, it is just a fact. That and I`ve been away from a comp for the past month so I haven`t been able to respond.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:05 am

Fact? How's it a fact?

Kanzenshuu

New Kanzenban Ending - "Daizenshuu EX" Style!

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