Vegeta: Inferiority Complex

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:24 pm

I suppose that this is how you've racked up over 2300 posts? ~_^

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Thu May 20, 2004 12:09 pm

Yamcha just fades into relative nothingness quite early on, in my opinion even in the first dragonball series. He looked cool in the 10th anniversary special and in his original character design, but right after he first changed his hair...

Well, I still think movie 8 presented an extremely exaggerated portrayal of such a hardass. Again, I won't really take the movies too seriously, anyway (when did the good guys get to take a weekend off from the android saga to go fight androids thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen, and why was thirteen apparently stronger than seventeen and eighteen? In many of the movies, why do Tien and Yamcha just not care to show up when Tien was even willing to risk his life fighting Cell AND Buu knowing he could do absolutely nothing? And when could they have gone to fight Broli? And who the hell is Tullece? When did Goku become the unrepenting angel of death? Why do bad things happen to good people? Is this a zit?)

Just saw Pi. Crazy ending. Actually just did that this morning and it smarts like a bitch.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu May 20, 2004 1:31 pm

A common (I think) explanation for the Super Android 13 feature is that is actually takes place in the timeline that the Trunks who Cell killed is from. Or another one where Cell wasn't created. Or it was Hanukah, and #17 and #18 were actually Jewish and didn't want to fight then.

And 13 being stronger than the later models isn't that odd. #16 is stronger than #17, who is stronger than #18.

You're right about Yamcha though. Even during the first Budokai, his role as "person who gets beaten up to show how bad the situation is" was already becoming defined.

Although at least he didn't get an arm punched right through his chest there.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu May 20, 2004 7:59 pm

Alias wrote:I suppose that this is how you've racked up over 2300 posts? ~_^

No, more because I can't shut-up.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:00 am

PsyLiam wrote:A common (I think) explanation for the Super Android 13 feature is that is actually takes place in the timeline that the Trunks who Cell killed is from. Or another one where Cell wasn't created. Or it was Hanukah, and #17 and #18 were actually Jewish and didn't want to fight then.

Doubtful... Hanukkah is one of the least important Jewish holidays... it'd be like skipping work for a Saint's feast-day, or something. Now, if it Rosh Ha-shanah or Yom Kippur...

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:49 am

And if they were delinquints, wouldn't that make it a prime choice to attack on a religious holiday?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:18 am

I knew I should have gone with Ramudan.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:56 pm

It is kind of strange, actually, because 13 seems loyal to Dr. Gero (or at least to his programmed command to kill Goku), while Dr. Gero had some kind of fear about releasing 16, who never really seemed motivated to do anything until someone found something for him to do. Why wouldn't he just use those androids from the movie, since they obeyed? Or just let them combine in the first place...?

Well, as evidenced by GT, that's just Toei for you. That series has more plotholes, stupid villians, and random, idiotic plot twists in any single episode than anyone thought possible. Yes, just like most animes.

Dragonball could never survive without Toriyama's unique storytelling, designs, and characters. It kind of reminded too much of other animes.

The rap in the dub didn't help it's credibility.

Wow. I got off the topic.

Whatever is was.

Yes.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat May 22, 2004 2:03 pm

Because movie 7 can't take place. In movie 7, instead of there being Cell in the basement, there was #s 13+14+15 being remade. 13 and co were scrapped in the manga+anime for being too imperfect, which is why we never see them.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:24 pm

I gotcha... I actually think it was the ol' secret lab UNDER the secret lab UNDER the secret mountain laboratory, hidden in an undisclosed location in the mountains...

This Dr.Gero takes NO chances.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:37 pm

Sure he does. He kept #17, 18 AND 16 alive when he knows all 3 are way stronger than him and 2 of which want him dead. That sounds like a chance to me.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:31 am

Which is something I never understood... Why didn't he just put his brain into Android 16? He'd have been stronger than 17 & 18 that way at least.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:55 am

Because Toriyama hadn't created #16, #17, and #18 yet. The androids were originally going to be #19 and #20, but Toriyama was told they looked "lame". So he went back and created the other three afterwards. Why three instead of just two? No idea, perhaps Toriyama was a little ticked that he had to go back and make new ones and said, "So you want better-looking ones eh?! Fine! I'll give you three better ones! There! Happy now?!"

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:32 am

That's the lazy excuse Jersey! I'm talking IC wise.

Thought that does make me wonder how differently things would have gone if they'd liked the first two Androids. Obviously Krillin would have stayed single his entire life... but would Cell have absorbed 19 & 20 to become perfect?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:25 am

If I recall correctly, Cell hadn't been invented yet. It went something like:

Toriyama: Behold the new villians that will turn the Z World upside down!
Editor: You spent all that time building up this android menace, and we end up with an old man and a fat clown? Oooh, scary.
Toriyama: Grrr. Fine.

*goes away*

Toriyama: Ha ha! I have come up with new, sleek, deadly villians! They will terrify you and everyone you know!
Editor: You mean this pair of teenagers? They look like they're too busy looking after their hair to destroy the world.
Toriyama: Okay, hang on....

*goes away*

Toriyama: Okay, this will do it! Behold...Cell!
Editor: A giant insect like thing?
Toriyama: Yes.
Editor: That's it? A giant insect like thing? I had my doubts about the guy with the black lipstick and the midget with the balding hairline, but this? You're fired.
Toriyama: No, wait. He may look like a giant insect like thing, but, but... But he will transform slowly over the space of several issues, causing DRAMATIC TENSION!
Editor: Brilliant! You've done it again, Akira. I can't wait to see how Goku and co defeat this new menace.
Toriyama: Who's Goku?

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:27 am

Haha...

I read that somewhere. As sarcastic as it is, that's the truth.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:55 pm

No! How dare you say that Toriyama was coming up with things randomly!? Dragon Ball was perfectly plotted out, meticulously pieced together, with an eye for every little detail!

You're all wrong! Trying to poison the true fans' minds! *puts hands over ears* La la la la...

You're all just trying to slander the series... You... you... false fans!

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:01 pm

SSSJ3 Goku is stronger than "mystic" Gohan, despite the fact that that's impossible. SSJ3 Goku is enough to take out the strongest form of Boo (if he could attain full power in the real world), yet he sacrificed his sense of self/being in order to PERMANENTLY fuse with Vegeta; the purpose being so they could defeat a weaker form of Boo. Case in point: all of Boo saga not thought out.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:22 pm

*plugs up ears* La la la la la....

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:06 pm

There are plotholes in DBZ, but the plot in itself is done in a way that doesn't throw those plotholes in your face, so you're able to actually enjoy the story and overlook those problems, probably the first or second time watching.

Yes, the Buu saga gets wierd. I just theorize that Kid Buu is stronger than the other Buus in their "pure" state, which excludes Superl Buu once he absorbs Piccolo, Gotenks, and Mystic Gohan. Mr.Straight Fingers (because of the dub of the last volume of GT, this will forever be Goku's new name) does say that Kid Buu is stronger than all the previous Buus, but perhaps he refered to Buu in his natural state, not Super Buu once he's absorbed Gohan or Piccolo and Gotenks. With this in-story explanation, it's still possible that Mystic Gohan could be stronger than SSJ3 Mr.Straight Fingers (which is what I'd like to believe, or else the Old Kai completely wasted everyone's time).

Perhaps Mr.Straight Fingers didn't want to beat Super Buu with SSJ3 because he didn't want to waste that kind of energy unless he had no choice, like he did with Kid Buu. I find this unlikely, though.

Well, this is just an IC explanation. The real truth is that they're most likely plotholes. But then again, power levels really aren't addressed by this time in the series.

Again, if you want a ton of plotholes, go see GT. That is a fine piece of rubbish, and I can't stand to watch the whole series (oh, and how the last battle fails to regain the glory of the Kid Buu fight). Sorry, about ragging on GT so much, it's... just so... vexing. I never understood how... really... really... HORRIBLE it was.

Kanzenshuu

Vegeta: Inferiority Complex

Who is online