Question about last fight with Kid Buu

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:58 pm

wannywan wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but metrite, that has to be my new sig.

Still not as good as my sig, though.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:07 pm

Magneto wrote:Because Gohan wasn`t strong enough , thus Goku`s statement about bringing both Gohan and Gotenks to help them fight against him , suggesting that individually they can`t beat him.

What

Mystic Gohan is indeed stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku and Kid Buu.

Evidence #1 - Goku states that a fighter stronger than himself will fight Buu in two days, namely Gotenks (and Goku said this with no idea that Gotenks would be able to become a Super Saiya-jin 3), Mystic Gohan is both stated and shown to be stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks.

Evidence #2 - Goku stated that both Vegeta and himself would surely be defeated if they fought Super Buu. Mystic Gohan completely dominated Super Buu.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:17 pm

Phenomenol wrote:Evidence #1 - Goku states that a fighter stronger than himself will fight Buu in two days, namely Gotenks (and Goku said this with no idea that Gotenks would be able to become a Super Saiya-jin 3), Mystic Gohan is both stated and shown to be stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks.

The kids hadn't even learned the fusion dance by that time. Goku was bluffing.

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:24 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Phenomenol wrote:Evidence #1 - Goku states that a fighter stronger than himself will fight Buu in two days, namely Gotenks (and Goku said this with no idea that Gotenks would be able to become a Super Saiya-jin 3), Mystic Gohan is both stated and shown to be stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks.
The kids hadn't even learned the fusion dance by that time. Goku was bluffing.

Either that, or he was sincerely positive that the Fusion Dance would have that great an effect. I say he really had his faith put into the idea. o.o

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:44 pm

Rocketman wrote:The kids hadn't even learned the fusion dance by that time. Goku was bluffing.

What? Goku knew Trunks and Goten's combined power would be greater than his. Goku even said that Super Buu would waste him, Gotenks was stronger than Goku.

I love it when someone just randomly says a character was "bluffing," which is laughable. I guess Toriyama was bluffing when he wrote that dialogue.

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:58 pm

Phenomenol wrote:
Rocketman wrote:The kids hadn't even learned the fusion dance by that time. Goku was bluffing.
What? Goku knew Trunks and Goten's combined power would be greater than his. Goku even said that Super Buu would waste him, Gotenks was stronger than Goku.

I love it when someone just randomly says a character was "bluffing," which is laughable. I guess Toriyama was bluffing when he wrote that dialogue.

Hey, now, quit it with the insulting. We're supposed to discuss this civilly.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:18 pm

Those aren't insults, more like facts.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:46 pm

Phenomenol wrote:
Rocketman wrote:The kids hadn't even learned the fusion dance by that time. Goku was bluffing.
What? Goku knew Trunks and Goten's combined power would be greater than his. Goku even said that Super Buu would waste him, Gotenks was stronger than Goku.

I love it when someone just randomly says a character was "bluffing," which is laughable. I guess Toriyama was bluffing when he wrote that dialogue.

Yes, Gotenks was stronger than Goku. But there's no way Goku could've known that before they ever even learned the dance.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:50 pm

Phenomenol wrote:I love it when someone just randomly says a character was "bluffing," which is laughable. I guess Toriyama was bluffing when he wrote that dialogue.

Not everything that is put into a particular character's dialouge is gospel.

"But Toriyama had him say it!"

This is one of the few instances throwing Mr.Toriyama's name at the issue won't help your argument. He also had Vegeta say that there was only one Super Saiya-jin every thousand years.

A character's dialouge is not Mr.Toriyama's means of establishing fact... it's a character's dialouge. That's it. Whether that character happened to be right or not establishes itself later in the story.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, (I'm not usually interested in participating in 'who's stronger' debates) but this isn't the first time I've heard you use the same defense.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:49 pm

I understand that not everything a character says is "gospel."

When the author is telling you how strong or fast a character is, it is usually the truth.

Post by **TripleRach** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:55 pm

Phenomenol wrote:Mystic Gohan is indeed stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku and Kid Buu.

Evidence #1 - Goku states that a fighter stronger than himself will fight Buu in two days, namely Gotenks (and Goku said this with no idea that Gotenks would be able to become a Super Saiya-jin 3), Mystic Gohan is both stated and shown to be stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks.

Evidence #2 - Goku stated that both Vegeta and himself would surely be defeated if they fought Super Buu. Mystic Gohan completely dominated Super Buu.

And yet, Gokuu also says that he could have beaten Buu the first time they fought, but he wanted the kids to take some responsibility and handle it themselves. Which statements are more correct...!?

The fact of the matter is, the story is just plain inconsistent about who was stronger than whom, because originally the Buu arc was building towards Gohan being the hero. Then, someone decided it would be better to kill off Gohan and Gotenks and bring back Gokuu and Vegeta.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:02 am

The Buu that Goku was able to beat was Fat Buu, not Super Buu.

I liked all the Dragonball arcs.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:15 am

Phenomenol wrote:The Buu that Goku was able to beat was Fat Buu, not Super Buu.

But Fat Buu is who Goku was talking to when he bluffed.

The fact of the matter is, the story is just plain inconsistent about who was stronger than whom, because originally the Buu arc was building towards Gohan being the hero. Then, someone decided it would be better to kill off Gohan and Gotenks and bring back Gokuu and Vegeta.

That is better.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:23 am

Rocketman wrote:But Fat Buu is who Goku was talking to when he bluffed.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:25 am

Phenomenol wrote:
Rocketman wrote:But Fat Buu is who Goku was talking to when he bluffed.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:33 am

Rocketman wrote:
Phenomenol wrote:
Rocketman wrote:But Fat Buu is who Goku was talking to when he bluffed.

Come on, guys. Let's try to either actually say something more than an emote or just let it go.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:04 am

Rocketman wrote:Yes, Gotenks was stronger than Goku. But there's no way Goku could've known that before they ever even learned the dance.

I disagree. Goku had seen what the result of fusion did for the Metamors.

Goku: "Every one of 'em was a wimp by himself- but once they fused, they were unbeatable!"

I'm sure Goku was guessing on some degree as to what Gotenks' actual power was going to be, but he was still confident that if the fusion was done correctly with both Goten and Trunks fusing at full power as Super Saiya-jins, and maybe with a little RoSaT time, the final outcome would make a stronger warrior than himself altogether.

So I wouldn't say what he told Boo was a full bluff, because he had a good idea of what Gotenks' power would be like, in the end.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:11 pm

If I recall, Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku and Fat Buu's fight destroyed 1/10 of earth. I always kept thinking that Gotenks in Super Saiya-jin 3 and Super Buu's fight should have destroyed earth. I know, we can't have that because then everyone would die (but hey it's not like Super Buu killed everyone anyway).

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:33 pm

Phenomenol wrote:I love it when someone just randomly says a character was "bluffing," which is laughable. I guess Toriyama was bluffing when he wrote that dialogue.

So Vegeta was an SSJ when Freeza brutally murdered him?

-Corey

Drabaz · Post by **Drabaz** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:58 pm

Wasn't Goku strong enough to kill Kid Buu? He said he could of defeated him but he'd need a minute to "rev up" his "chi". Also, when Gotenks' fusion wore off inside of Super Buu, Goku told Gohan to not worry about the potora anymore, he could take care of it.

But regarding the original question...I really think that Akira Toriyama intentionally put in the dialogue, "I'm sorry...I spent all my power...I can't teleport...", so that people wouldnt ask questions like this.

Kanzenshuu

Question about last fight with Kid Buu

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