So what exactly is this SSGSS?

[Kamiccolo9]

But we are not making up that GT & movies take place in different dimensions in order to make them fit. Toriyama stated that they take place in a different dimension from the manga. Therefore, they take place in a different dimension from the manga. The Daizenshuu acknowledge this, and we even see it happening in XenoVerse.

Comics also place storylines in different dimensions to segregate them from the main canonicity and they are always considered to not be relevant, or canon, and ignored.

You are referring to continuities. A continuity and a canon are totally different things. And they are not "ignored," or considered "irrelevant." I don't know where you are getting that idea.

[Hitiro]

But we are not making up that GT & movies take place in different dimensions in order to make them fit. Toriyama stated that they take place in a different dimension from the manga. Therefore, they take place in a different dimension from the manga. The Daizenshuu acknowledge this, and we even see it happening in XenoVerse.

Comics also place storylines in different dimensions to segregate them from the main canonicity and they are always considered to not be relevant, or canon, and ignored.

You are referring to continuities. A continuity and a canon are totally different things. And they are not "ignored," or considered "irrelevant." I don't know where you are getting that idea.

I've seen numerous people ignore the side stories in comics because they aren't part of the main universe. If there are any issues with the story they are shrugged off because they exist outside of the established main universe.

[Kamiccolo9]

I've seen numerous people ignore the side stories in comics because they aren't part of the main universe. If there are any issues with the story they are shrugged off because they exist outside of the established main universe.

Those people are uninformed, and should not be taken seriously.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Comics also place storylines in different dimensions to segregate them from the main canonicity and they are always considered to not be relevant, or canon, and ignored.

But they are not ignored in this case, we see them in XenoVerse.

These assumptions are you trying to justify a reason to link the two though. All we can go on is the material that is already provided to us. And the material that is provided to us points to GT not linking with BoG or FnF. There is no point in making wild accusations about things we don't know.

What assumptions? I'm talking about facts.

XenoVerse takes place in the main continuity where the DB manga/DBZ anime takes place. Fact.
The movies (1-17 + Evolution) take place in different dimensions, confirmed both by the Daizenshuu (for some of them), Toriyama himself, and we see it directly in XenoVerse. Fact.
GT is a side-story to the manga according to Toriyama, and as we are told in XenoVerse, it takes place in an alternate timeline created by Future Trunks' time-travels. Fact.
GT Goku knows who Beerus is in XenoVerse, so BoG happened in the GT timeline, also confirmed by a press release by Toei, and Shueisha's official timeline, even though the BoG scriptwriters (Watanabe & Toriyama) didn't care to make them fit. Fact.

Otherwise I suppose you're going to tell me that Freeza never trained and got a super power up either and never got a new transformation? I also guess you're going to tell me that every character had their memories wiped about the SSJGod form and it's power but just remember Beerus and Whis? Because that form have been very useful in GT in combating Bebi Vegeta.

Thinking about it, there is no indication the FnF happened in the GT continuity. However, there are indications about BoG happening in the GT continuity.

As for where SSGod was in GT, apparently, something happened in these 11 years between BoG & GT, and Goku lost it, like Gohan lost his Ultimate state. Goku couldn't do the ritual against Baby, because Baby had taken in his side almost all of the Saiyans, there was only Goku & Pan.

[Bullza]

GT Goku knows who Beerus is in XenoVerse, so BoG happened in the GT timeline, also confirmed by a press release by Toei, and Shueisha's official timeline, even though the BoG scriptwriters (Watanabe & Toriyama) didn't care to make them fit. Fact.

Again you seem to be taking what happened in a video game too literally. Battle of Gods is set in between the events of the manga and was written as a continuation of that manga. Battle of Gods fits in with the main timeline

GT as a side story does not.

GT did not happen after Battle of Gods because Toriyama said Goku wouldn't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 anymore which he did.

Any Beerus GT Goku might know wouldn't be the same one from Battle of Gods.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

GT did not happen after Battle of Gods because Toriyama said Goku wouldn't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 anymore which he did.

If Goku lost the power of Super Saiyan God, he would have to use SS2 & SS3 again. Which seems to be what happened.

[Bullza]

Then it makes no sense for Toriyama to say something like that wont happen in the future when it already has.

If Battle of Gods is essentially a story that acts as a continuation of the manga and is a part of the main timeline and GT is a side story and part of an alternate timeline then they do not take place in the same timeline.

[TobyS]

Doesn't super saiyan 4 Goku only know of Beerus in generic dialogue In vs matches or by bringing them assists chars in pqs . in cut scenes SS4 Goku doesn't know <time patroller> but post God Goku does.

This implies they are not only separate people but BoG didn't happen.

Everyone knows everyone in those little dialogues and they don't even make sense with each other. Like Beers knows Freeza but Freeze doesn't know him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Then it makes no sense for Toriyama to say something like that wont happen in the future when it already has.

If Battle of Gods is essentially a story that acts as a continuation of the manga and is a part of the main timeline and GT is a side story and part of an alternate timeline then they do not take place in the same timeline.

But Toriyama doesn't care about GT, it's not his story, and it's not part of the main continuity.

However, the story of GT officially happened, but in a different timeline.

[Bullza]

So then GT isn't canon to the main timeline and Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are. That's what people are always referring to when they talk about what is and isn't canon.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So then GT isn't canon to the main timeline and Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are. That's what people are always referring to when they talk about what is and isn't canon.

By that logic, Future Trunks' timeline & the Room of Spirit & Time dimension are non-canon. It is possible for the characters of the main timeline to visit the GT timeline, as we see in XenoVerse.

[Bullza]

Except Future Trunks timeline was not deemed as just being a side story whereas GT is so they're not the same. The characters and events of Future Trunks timeline as well as the ROSAT appeared in the manga and were part of the main timeline.

Nothing about GT has ever been referred to in the main timeline.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Except Future Trunks timeline was not deemed as just being a side story whereas GT is so they're not the same. The characters and events of Future Trunks timeline as well as the ROSAT appeared in the manga and were part of the main timeline.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but side-story doesn't always mean non-canon.

Nothing about GT has ever been referred to in the main timeline.

XenoVerse takes place in the main timeline, and the GT timeline is referred there.

[Kamiccolo9]

"Side Story" never means "non canon." There are "non-canon" side stories, but they are not "non canon" because they are side stories.

[Low Tone G]

"Side Story" never means "non canon." There are "non-canon" side stories, but they are not "non canon" because they are side stories.

You are still debating on canon/non-canon thing? We don't really know now what's canon. BOG seems to be altered in Dragon Ball Super, yet it was believed to be totally canon. I'd say that Toriyama's comments decide what is his his storyline. If he says that Beerus was awake way earlier that we saw in BOG then is should be taken that way.

[Kamiccolo9]

"Side Story" never means "non canon." There are "non-canon" side stories, but they are not "non canon" because they are side stories.

You are still debating on canon/non-canon thing? We don't really know now what's canon. BOG seems to be altered in Dragon Ball Super, yet it was believed to be totally canon. I'd say that Toriyama's comments decide what is his his storyline. If he says that Beerus was awake way earlier that we saw in BOG then is should be taken that way.

I'm not debating canon policy, I'm stating the meaning of the term "side story." Side stories are not inherently "non canon."

[Low Tone G]

"Side Story" never means "non canon." There are "non-canon" side stories, but they are not "non canon" because they are side stories.

You are still debating on canon/non-canon thing? We don't really know now what's canon. BOG seems to be altered in Dragon Ball Super, yet it was believed to be totally canon. I'd say that Toriyama's comments decide what is his his storyline. If he says that Beerus was awake way earlier that we saw in BOG then is should be taken that way.

I'm not debating canon policy, I'm stating the meaning of the term "side story." Side stories are not inherently "non canon."

That's right but this is the thread to talk about it.

[Bullza]

I'm not sure where it's suddenly come from but the last couple days, on three different forums I've seen people talking about how SSGSS is actually weaker than SSJGod.

It seems to have stemmed from this article.

http://kotaku.com/its-official-goku-has ... 1696943056

"Dragonball creator Akira Toriyama apparently said that he thought red was a strong color, but blue was weaker.

“Simply put, it’s because [the red hair] looks so strong,” said Toriyama. “The color yellow has already been used, and blue isn’t really that strong looking, so visually, red is easy to understand.”

In retrospect that sounds like a backhanded complement for this blue-hair color iteration, but if you really think about it, this makes perfect sense. The Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is weaker than a straight-up Super Saiyan God, so thus, it has blue hair. Or something like that."

I thought this was an old comment from back when BoG came out though?

[Hugo Boss]

Visually-speaking, red looks stronger than blue, but I don't think this had any relation with how powerful Goku is portrayed in the film. He said he obtained the power of SSGod when he goes Super Saiyan now.

[Gotsu]

Doesn't Whis say that it would take both Vegeta and Goku in this state to be equal or have a good chance at beating beerus?

I mean if that's the case, and Toriyama said that Goku's super saiyan god was a 6, where Beerus is a 10.

Meaning Beerus is like 1.6 times (or 40%) stronger than Super saiyan god Goku, or something like that, right?

If whis states that Goku and Vegeta in these SSGSS transformations could match up Beerus, Then would that may or may not imply SSGSS as a 5 for both Vegeta and Goku?

There's also the point where base Goku, after absorbing the power, was taking on Beerus, in BoG, and Beerus only using 70% power. However whilst training in Fukkatsu no F, Goku states that the simple blast Beerus sends towards them, due to his aggravation of being woken up, would have killed them if being hit directly by it (or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong lol)

Just wondering what any of you think about that? (sorry this is actually my first reply on the forums and I'm a little late for the party Lol)