Unpopular DB opinions

[ekrolo2]

DBE should be viewed in the same vein as Batman & Robin imo, both are way too hilariously bad to outright hate imo like F.

[Danfun64]

TFS' rendition of Tree of Might is painfully boring.

I liked it. To me, it was their rendition of Bardock Father of Goku that I didn't like. Most of the jokes were from older TFS material, and the 80s music made the animation feel dated, which the original didn't really feel like.

Also, Bio-Broly has the best fights of the entire Broly trilogy.

[Skar]

-If Revival of F was replace with Cooler and didn't have Toriyama's name associated with it then it would be considered one of the worst DBZ movies of all time.

It already is. (At least on Kanzenshuu).

I meant that I don't think it would've had much support if Toei used the same premise but switched out the villain. For example, if Toei decided to bring back Kooler, Bojack, or Broly and have them surpass SSJ God then fans might say "Damn it Toei. Just another cheap attempt to milk the series!". When Toriyama did it with Freeza then it was "Well I mean Freeza is his favorite villain after all". I've seen some people rank RoF higher than BoG and Wrath of the Dragon. I understand it's all opinion but I'm curious if they would rank it in the top 10 if Freeza was switched out with Kooler or another Toei villain.

[dbzfan7]

I'll do you one better: I found Evolution to be more enjoyable than F.

I've stepped on a nail and it was a more enjoyable experience than F, it's not saying much.

I do agree though, and Evolution has absolutely no negative impact on the ongoing story so I can't even bring myself to dislike it that much.

I'd say F was a better movie, but F pissed me off more. I knew before watching Dragon Ball Evolution is was going to be shit. I knew when it was first teased it was going to be terrible. I don't think anyone thought it would be good. So it was terrible, but inconsequential (Heck it made Toriyama start to care about Dragon Ball again so there's a plus). F is not inconsequential and is something that is sticking with the series. It wasted all the potential it had, and got even worse in the anime version. It's a continuation of the story, and a poor one at that. It's not something I can ignore like Dragon Ball Evolution and the other 13 movies that were just side romps.

[Cetra]

I also never had a problem with DB Evolution. And while obviously it is not really a faithful adaption of Dragon Ball (even though it shares more similiarities and thoughts people want to see) I also was not as disappointed as I was from F. I can see good things from F but seriously - I think F with the style of the movie and the handling of the anime would have been way better.

My probably most unpopular opinion:

I like Super but I think it is

way
way
way
way
worse than GT. I think some stuff we got was a greater crime than everything GT did combined. Monaca? The design alone in the Dragon Ball universe ... he looks like a Dragon Quest character which would not be that bad but the giant nipples for the sake of being funny thing totally makes me dislike him, yes, looks are an important part for me, not just the rest. Beerus? Interesting in the German version but a totally questionable character.

What good can I say about Super?

Oh yes: Whis and Vados. And Frost. Maybe Hit as well. We will see. And I think Goku as Blueper Saiyajin looks good.

[Bansho64]

I found that GT made me feel more comfortable than Super did. It's hard to explain but it just made me feel happy like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z did. Super just....doesn't do it for me. I know GT has all of its flaws and I won't dare call it a great series but it gave me the "Dragon Ball" feel that Super just doesn't seem to have. (IMO). Supers color shading and overall look puts it off for me too.

[Hellspawn28]

-If Revival of F was replace with Cooler and didn't have Toriyama's name associated with it then it would be considered one of the worst DBZ movies of all time.

It already is. (At least on Kanzenshuu).

I meant that I don't think it would've had much support if Toei used the same premise but switched out the villain. For example, if Toei decided to bring back Kooler, Bojack, or Broly and have them surpass SSJ God then fans might say "Damn it Toei. Just another cheap attempt to milk the series!". When Toriyama did it with Freeza then it was "Well I mean Freeza is his favorite villain after all". I've seen some people rank RoF higher than BoG and Wrath of the Dragon. I understand it's all opinion but I'm curious if they would rank it in the top 10 if Freeza was switched out with Kooler or another Toei villain.

The differences between Freeza and those villains are that Freeza is a major villain of the series and he is a iconic villain of the series. He had a major impact in the story while characters like Bojack and Broli are movie only characters and have zero impact on the story. They are never seen or mention again outside of their own movies. Not to mention characters like Super 13, Coola and Bojack are generic one noted characters that are boring in my opinion.

[Skar]

The differences between Freeza and those villains are that Freeza is a major villain of the series and he is a iconic villain of the series. He had a major impact in the story while characters like Bojack and Broli are movie only characters and have zero impact on the story. They are never seen or mention again outside of their own movies. Not to mention characters like Super 13, Coola and Bojack are generic one noted characters that are boring in my opinion.

I agree that Freeza himself was an iconic villain but this movie doesn't do the character justice. He didn't even feel like a villain or threat and more like practice for Goku and Vegeta. You could easily swap out Freeza with one of the previous Toei villains and it would play out almost the same way. It would've been the same generic premise of a former villain coming back for revenge, getting a huge power-up, and then defeated by a new SSJ form. I feel the only difference is that Toriyama was the one who decided to use this idea. If Toei or anyone else did then it would've been called lazy and unoriginal.

[DBZAOTA482]

Speaking of GT, I like it more all of Super barring the Black Star Dragon Ball Saga.

[Victorious]

Well I still believe the controversial power chain for movie 5.

SSJ Goku [movie 5] >> Final Form Coola >>> Kaioken x 20 Goku >>> base Goku [movie 5] ~ SSJ Goku [Namek] > 100% true form Freeza = true form Coola.

A lot of people believed this 5 years ago or so, but it's died down. It's just a silly movie but I felt that was implied by the dialogue.

when?

In the Japanese versian of movie 5, after base Goku roughs up Coola, Coola says "You do as well as I expected, enough to have defeated my brother". Then Coola tranforms into his Final form. So Coola thinks base Goku was already powerful enough to have beaten Freeza.

[TheMikado]

Well I still believe the controversial power chain for movie 5.

SSJ Goku [movie 5] >> Final Form Coola >>> Kaioken x 20 Goku >>> base Goku [movie 5] ~ SSJ Goku [Namek] > 100% true form Freeza = true form Coola.

A lot of people believed this 5 years ago or so, but it's died down. It's just a silly movie but I felt that was implied by the dialogue.

when?

In the Japanese versian of movie 5, after base Goku roughs up Coola, Coola says "You do as well as I expected, enough to have defeated my brother". Then Coola tranforms into his Final form. So Coola thinks base Goku was already powerful enough to have beaten Freeza.

Well Frieza did say no one had even seen his final form before which may have included family members. If that was the case then that would be accurate for Frieza's first couple of forms.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Didn't Cooler know about Freeza's 4th form, thus saying he had found one more form?

[trick007z]

-If Revival of F was replace with Cooler and didn't have Toriyama's name associated with it then it would be considered one of the worst DBZ movies of all time.

It already is. (At least on Kanzenshuu).

I meant that I don't think it would've had much support if Toei used the same premise but switched out the villain. For example, if Toei decided to bring back Kooler, Bojack, or Broly and have them surpass SSJ God then fans might say "Damn it Toei. Just another cheap attempt to milk the series!". When Toriyama did it with Freeza then it was "Well I mean Freeza is his favorite villain after all". I've seen some people rank RoF higher than BoG and Wrath of the Dragon. I understand it's all opinion but I'm curious if they would rank it in the top 10 if Freeza was switched out with Kooler or another Toei villain.

But it completely misses the point to swap out villains. The big selling point was that you had the villain that destroyed planet Vegeta, destroyed planet Namek, had ruined Vegeta's life, and was the catalyst for Goku's ascension and greatest triumph. There is too much that comes with that, to say "oh well if you put in a different villain, it would be worse". Of course it would be, the implications of the movie would be too different. It's not a real argument. There was a relevant reason to use Freezza.

Anyways, as far as the film in a vacuum trying to ignore all that, it has better animation than almost all the DB films, it's easily top 3 in action, it places a heavy emphasis on the popular Goku and Vegeta dynamic, it has a new transformation that many people responded well to, it effectively utilized the most popular character not named Goku, it played up on previous relationships better than any other villain return in the series, and of all the movies it was the only one that actually proceeded forward with what was built up in previous films. For that alone it would be considered highly.

[Skar]

But it completely misses the point to swap out villains. The big selling point was that you had the villain that destroyed planet Vegeta, destroyed planet Namek, had ruined Vegeta's life, and was the catalyst for Goku's ascension and greatest triumph. There is too much that comes with that, to say "oh well if you put in a different villain, it would be worse". Of course it would be, the implications of the movie would be too different. It's not a real argument. There was a relevant reason to use Freezza.

I could agree with you if they actually attempted to acknowledge any of that. To me it played out like any villain revenge story in a fanfic which is what made it so disappointing. A former villain gets wished back/escapes from hell, trains to catch up with the Saiyans, and gets killed without any actual character development for anyone or relevance to the overall story. They could've gone from BoG to the U6 saga and we wouldn't have missed out on anything. The only new reveal was the new transformation which is usually the only new thing gained from these types of stories. The difference was that SSJ Blue was obtained during their training prior to the movie so they were just testing it out on Freeza.

Freeza was one of the most fearsome villains in the manga but here he was portrayed as just an obstacle for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. Barely anything having to do with their past history with Freeza was acknowledged or expanded on. That’s basically why I felt they could’ve swapped Freeza with any other villain and it would’ve played out almost the same way. Vegeta betrayed Freeza on Namek and was one of the reasons why Freeza didn’t obtain immortality. Freeza didn’t even acknowledged Vegeta except when he offered to recruit him. It’s like Freeza completely forgot all the years he abused Vegeta and how Vegeta ruined his plans on Namek. Freeza destroyed his home planet, lied to him, ruined his life, and was the first person to kill him but that never brought up either. Vegeta just stood there quietly and only intervened because he was frustrated that Goku was taking too long. When Goku was out of the fight, Freeza offered Vegeta the opportunity a position in the army if Vegeta killed Goku. It was only then that Vegeta brought up Planet Vegeta so if Freeza didn’t initiate the conversation then there would’ve been no mention of their past together. When Whis reversed time and Goku killed Freeza, Vegeta was only angry that Goku intervened in his fight. It wasn’t implied to have anything to do with Freeza specifically or that Vegeta was upset he lost his opportunity for revenge. Vegeta was angry because Goku already had his chance and now he was jumping in when it was Vegeta’s turn.

It didn’t seem like Goku learned anything from his last fight with Freeza on Namek. When Freeza was losing energy on Namek, he tried to catch Goku off guard multiple times but Goku was able to counter all his attacks. They also should’ve known that Freeza would’ve tried destroying the planet as a last resort. That’s why Goku was able to defeat Mecha Freeza and King Cold in the future timeline before either one had a chance to destroy the Earth. He would’ve done the same in the main timeline if Trunks didn’t intervene. Instead both Goku and Vegeta failed to stop Freeza in RoF and they needed a second chance to prevent something that they should've been prepared for from the beginning.

The Freeza saga was my favorite saga of DBZ and Freeza was one of my favorite villains. I honestly have nothing good to say about this movie besides the animation and a few funny scenes. It makes sense that it had the best animation considering it had the highest budget out of any DBZ movie. Overall I can’t say that makes up for all the flaws. If you look at the story without the high budget animation like what we got during the RoF saga then it’s one of the worst and laziest in the entire series.

[pacz360]

But it completely misses the point to swap out villains. The big selling point was that you had the villain that destroyed planet Vegeta, destroyed planet Namek, had ruined Vegeta's life, and was the catalyst for Goku's ascension and greatest triumph. There is too much that comes with that, to say "oh well if you put in a different villain, it would be worse". Of course it would be, the implications of the movie would be too different. It's not a real argument. There was a relevant reason to use Freezza.

I could agree with you if they actually attempted to acknowledge any of that. To me it played out like any villain revenge story in a fanfic which is what made it so disappointing. A former villain gets wished back/escapes from hell, trains to catch up with the Saiyans, and gets killed without any actual character development for anyone or relevance to the overall story. They could've gone from BoG to the U6 saga and we wouldn't have missed out on anything. The only new reveal was the new transformation which is usually the only new thing gained from these types of stories. The difference was that SSJ Blue was obtained during their training prior to the movie so they were just testing it out on Freeza.

Freeza was one of the most fearsome villains in the manga but here he was portrayed as just an obstacle for Goku and Vegeta to overcome. Barely anything having to do with their past history with Freeza was acknowledged or expanded on. That’s basically why I felt they could’ve swapped Freeza with any other villain and it would’ve played out almost the same way. Vegeta betrayed Freeza on Namek and was one of the reasons why Freeza didn’t obtain immortality. Freeza didn’t even acknowledged Vegeta except when he offered to recruit him. It’s like Freeza completely forgot all the years he abused Vegeta and how Vegeta ruined his plans on Namek. Freeza destroyed his home planet, lied to him, ruined his life, and was the first person to kill him but that never brought up either. Vegeta just stood there quietly and only intervened because he was frustrated that Goku was taking too long. When Goku was out of the fight, Freeza offered Vegeta the opportunity a position in the army if Vegeta killed Goku. It was only then that Vegeta brought up Planet Vegeta so if Freeza didn’t initiate the conversation then there would’ve been no mention of their past together. When Whis reversed time and Goku killed Freeza, Vegeta was only angry that Goku intervened in his fight. It wasn’t implied to have anything to do with Freeza specifically or that Vegeta was upset he lost his opportunity for revenge. Vegeta was angry because Goku already had his chance and now he was jumping in when it was Vegeta’s turn.

It didn’t seem like Goku learned anything from his last fight with Freeza on Namek. When Freeza was losing energy on Namek, he tried to catch Goku off guard multiple times but Goku was able to counter all his attacks. They also should’ve known that Freeza would’ve tried destroying the planet as a last resort. That’s why Goku was able to defeat Mecha Freeza and King Cold in the future timeline before either one had a chance to destroy the Earth. He would’ve done the same in the main timeline if Trunks didn’t intervene. Instead both Goku and Vegeta failed to stop Freeza in RoF and they needed a second chance to prevent something that they should've been prepared for from the beginning.

The Freeza saga was my favorite saga of DBZ and Freeza was one of my favorite villains. I honestly have nothing good to say about this movie besides the animation and a few funny scenes. It makes sense that it had the best animation considering it had the highest budget out of any DBZ movie. Overall I can’t say that makes up for all the flaws. If you look at the story without the high budget animation like what we got during the RoF saga then it’s one of the worst and laziest in the entire series.

This x100000000 you my friend hit the all the notes of why this movie is awful and should never been made.

[ekrolo2]

But it completely misses the point to swap out villains. The big selling point was that you had the villain that destroyed planet Vegeta, destroyed planet Namek, had ruined Vegeta's life.

While I largely agree with what you and Skar are saying, this is one point that I feel the need to call bullshit on in *gasp* defense of Resurrection Farce.

Freeza didn't ruin jack shit for Vegeta. As TFS brilliantly put it, if it wasn't for Freeza, Vegeta would've turned out just as vicious of a scumbag as he is in the actual series. The only thing Freeza did was put a rabid, amoral shithead on something of a leash as opposed to letting him and his genocidal kind wreak havoc across the universe aimlessly Majin Boo style.

Even saying Vegeta is justified in wanting Freeza dead over Planet Vegeta is a stretch because, even in Dragon Ball Minus, the Saiyan's are still genocidal pricks who 100% deserved being annihilated. If anything Freeza did the universe a giant favor but thinning the herd.Now, if Vegeta felt any discernible regret over his past actions and wanted to destroy Freeza as a symbolic way of atoning for them, that would work. As it stands, any pretense of Vegeta having anything remotely close to an actual, justified reason for wanting to beat Freeza doesn't exist.

[Nightmare Wheel]

I never minded that filler bit where the Kienzan fails against Perfect Cell. I feel like people really overrate the Kienzan's ability. Sure it's an incredibly powerful move, but I feel to see why people think it should be able to cut literally anything.

[Danfun64]

I never saw Kienzan failing against Perfect Cell as a bad thing either. The Kienzan failing on one of Garlic Jr's gang, on the other hand... Then again, considering the lack of logic of how the Black Water Mist worked, and the poor quality of the Garlic Jr Saga in general (the only good bits involved Maron and Kurilin's relationship with her.), I'm not sure that counts as anything.

[omaro34]

The Garlic Jr Arc was one of my favorite Arcs in the series. You didn't need Goku or Vegeta to win. Strategy was used, those henchmen were hilarious with their goofy names (Ketchup, Vinegar, Salt), and the concept of the Deadzone was a horrible fate, even worse than getting killed.

[rereboy]

I never minded that filler bit where the Kienzan fails against Perfect Cell. I feel like people really overrate the Kienzan's ability. Sure it's an incredibly powerful move, but I feel to see why people think it should be able to cut literally anything.

Because, like Solar Flare, it was proven to be not lose any of its effect agaisnt much stronger opponents in the manga. While other attacks have always been less effective the stronger the opponent is, Kienzan's sucess, like Solar Flare, in the manga, has never depended on how strong the opponent is but whether the attack hits or not.