Toriko Takes DBK's Slot On April 3 (Kai Ends with Cell)

[Herms]

One thing I'm worried about is that this will boost the ego of all the people who think that the Cell Saga is the real ending to DB.

The fact that, when it started, it was claimed to be the "Toriyama cut" of the anime isn't gonna help at all...

I guess those people would also think that Toriyama didn't originally intend to draw those first 194 chapters of the manga either.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Still, wouldn't that image of Gotenks in the scan that kei17 posted tell us that the footage has already treated for Kai?

I don't know why you would assume that at all. Because it's a clean-looking shot? They do have production and cel art, etc.

No, they do not.

[beast mode]

I don't get why it's so bad that Kai isn't redoing the last 97 episodes but it's fine that they skipped the first 153... I'm just glad that I can watch Saiyans-Cell and not be bored out of my mind.

[Rukura]

One thing I'm worried about is that this will boost the ego of all the people who think that the Cell Saga is the real ending to DB.

The fact that, when it started, it was claimed to be the "Toriyama cut" of the anime isn't gonna help at all...

I guess those people would also think that Toriyama didn't originally intend to draw those first 194 chapters of the manga either.

Believe it or not, that could be exactly the case.
I've seen people claiming that there's a lack of character development in Dragon Ball Z, and been called a "japanophile" for even mentioning that it didn't start in Z. And for those people, there is nothing besides Z

[Flamzeron]

Didn't Z aired in the evening when it ran? If the fact that Kai might be canceled is because of Toriko taking its time slot, then couldn't Kai be moved to the evening?

I never got the whole "Dream 9" thing anyway. I don't think of Dragon Ball when I think of One Piece. Naruto, maybe, but not One Piece.

[sangofe]

Well, this makes it easy for me; I won't be buying any Kai stuff as the Boo saga was my favorite saga, and the one I truly cared about.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Still, wouldn't that image of Gotenks in the scan that kei17 posted tell us that the footage has already treated for Kai?

I don't know why you would assume that at all. Because it's a clean-looking shot? They do have production and cel art, etc.

No, they do not.

What makes you say that?

[Goku100xKamehameha]

What makes you say that?

This.

[Budogenkai]

Well that sucks. At least they made come back to it someday.

Well, this makes it easy for me; I won't be buying any Kai stuff as the Boo saga was my favorite saga, and the one I truly cared about.

Yeah this is currently how I feel about it too.

[RazorX]

The Buu story arc had not been released before in North America. It's an irrelevant comparison.

The Kai Buu saga hasn't been released in Japan yet. Clearly there's a very good following for Kai in Japan so it is feasible for Toei to do a direct to DVD release of the Kai Buu saga. There's a direct to DVD series based on Hellsing being released in Japan, if a not so well known series can get a direct to DVD release, why not an immensely popular phenomenon like Dragon Ball?

It has not only been airing in repeats in Japan since its initial airing, but now it's been released on home format twice (Dragon Box sets and individual R2 DVDs -- which actually sold, mind you, meaning many people already own the underlying video content). Not to mention the manga, of course...

DBZ's being repeated a lot, presumably Toei make money off those repeats. Kai's already getting a repeat starting soon on Fuji TV two. It is successful enough to warrent those repeats.

People watching something for free does not somehow miraculously make money for its owners.

It does. High ratings means high value advertising slots, meaning more money per slot can be charged. It's one reason why the Ocean dub of DBZ was such a success; high ratings.

People can watch a lot of things for free on TV, doesn't mean they will. They watch stuff they are interested in, normally.

So one piece of turd is doing better than other pieces of turd. O... K...?

That...doesn't look like a good way for a fan devoted to the series as yourself to describe.

Kai is profitable? Says who? We know the sales figures for Namco-Bandai and Toei (both of which have been on the decline year-over-year, especially since 2007), but "sales" does not inherently equal "profit". If you sink $10 into something and have $5 in sales, it's not profitable. In this case, we don't know what the investment is. Saying Kai "is profitable" is not a call any of us can make, because we have no real way of knowing. I have not seen Toei make this statement.

I wasn't following Kai regularly until the Trunks and Android saga, but from what I gathered, Kai's initial advertising didn't go past the Freeza saga and I learned from your website that Happinet adjusted their Kai DVD episode count from the 50s to the 90s prior to the Trunks episodes broadcasting, then the Android/Cell episodes' advertising began. This suggests that a decision was made to extend Kai past the Freeza saga, why would Toei do that if Kai wasn't profitable? That's not even counting the international revenue Kai is generating.

Dragon Ball's merchandise licensing is still among Toei's top 4. Kai's merchandise has even branched into pots and pans, which isn't bad:

I update this website each and every single quarter with Namco-Bandai's fiscal report. You can easily dip back through the updates and read them. It has been a steady decline for years, with constant forecasts dipping lower and lower -- not only is it doing worse than before, but they know it.

I did read them. But is Kai to blame for the decline? How many new characters did Kai introduce? How many new storylines did Kai have? There's only so many times you can buy figures of the same characters. Toei and Namco Bandai should realise that if they want merchandise sales to increase substantially, they need to introduce new stuff to the series.

As for the games, I think a lack of innovation from Namco Bandai is a factor in the sales decline. If they give a fresh experience, like a good RPG, sales should increase because fans have wanted that.

Where do you have a source for this information? It's likely true, but I haven't seen that data.

Toei Animation:

Why do you people continue to argue from delusional emotion? You can't just toss statements out there like these and expect them to be true just because you want them to be.

I'm not arguing from delusional emotion. It's true that I want Kai to continue into the Buu saga but I find it difficult to believe that Kai is loss making. Toei have made close to 100 episodes of Kai, longer than a lot of other Anime last and Kai isn't even finished yet.

Look... again, I have absolutely no vested interest any which way in how this resolves itself. I really don't. I'm not going to sit here and let folks convince themselves that the franchise is completely invulnerable, though. It's not, it hasn't been for years, and I'd be shocked if some major fallout didn't come about sooner than later, with or without Kai's existence.

So what if it "defeats the purpose" by it not covering the Buu arc? Who says everything has to be and invariably will be ideal to an original concept? Things fail all the time. You don't have to like it, but hey -- welcome to reality.

Who says Kai is a fail? We don't even know for sure that it will end at the Cell saga yet. Episode 98 could show clips of the Buu saga with a "coming soon" for all we know. Trunks' VA hasn't given up hope for the Buu saga.

Merchandise wise the Buu saga is probably the most lucrative. It has more new characters introduced than the previous sagas and some of the new characters are very popular, such as Vegito. Also, I've seen more figures from the Buu saga than others. Toei probably recognise this and might produce the Buu saga later. Or they might produce it for the international fanbase first. Dragon Ball's international "film" sales in FY2010 were ¥875million, an increase from FY2009 ¥672million. 3Quarters of March 2011 was ¥956million, while it was ¥714million in 3Quarters of March 2010. Dragon Ball "film" made more revenue in the 3 quarters of March 2011 than the whole year ending March 2010. I think Kai helped the increase in revenue, and Kai hasn't even started broadcasting in Europe yet. The international merchandise exceeded ¥1.6billion in FY2010. Toei said in their report that they want to continue to strengthen and expand the global development of Dragon Ball. That strategy ties in with the continuation of the Buu saga.

For an international standpoint, Toei can basically edit and remaster the Buu saga and add in bgm for the international licensees and save money on Japanese voice re recordings and advertising, but still charge the licensees what they are now. Or if Toei could just give the licensees the episodes uncut. I think that the Kai Buu saga is feasible for international distribution. I would hope it is feasible for Japanese distribution.

[Mewzard]

I agree that there's no way Toei is failing to make a profit on Kai. Considering how little effort they've actually put into Kai (if any money's been blown, it's been through the stupid decision to try to get AKB-48 to do music for them *Kageyama would have done it for far less*). Plus, they're constantly getting high ratings on TV. Even if the marketing hasn't been great, and DVD sales have been down, series that have cost more to make have, in fact, sold less yet still have been seen as successes, even with little merchandising. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if the series went on hiatus and tried a new timeslot, or even air on the channel the re-runs will be on, after they go through a cycle.

Even if it does end in Japan, there is no way they won't get something for the international markets. I mean, look at Razor's graph:



Not surprisingly, Dragon Ball is their most licensed series by far in foreign markets (seeing Saint Seiya, One Piece, and Sailor Moon as second, third, and fourth respectively feel right to me), and even if Japan either continued to see a drop in popularity or didn't even air Buu Saga material in Kai, all the different markets would definitely pay to have that portion available. Even if it's not at it's peak popularity, it's still more than enough to make a massive profit.

Even if it cost them a little, this investment would pay off in the international markets at a later date.

Also, even if I wouldn't use them, I would hang those Dragon Ball Skillets on my wall for decoration, lol.

[Rocketman]

Great. Just fucking great.

Welp, guess I'll just buy the Saiyan and Namek saga only.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

(if any money's been blown, it's been through the stupid decision to try to get AKB-48 to do music for them (Kageyama would have done it for far less).

Isn't it the other way around? I would think AKB-48 went to Toei to promote their song.

[penguintruth]

I want a Dragon Ball Kai pancake pan...

[Goku100xKamehameha]

According to a translation of a One Piece spoiler on Arlong Park forum, there will a Toriko x One Piece one-shot Manga similar to Cross Epoch in issue 17 of the Japanese Shonen Jump.

[Chuquita]

According to a translation of a One Piece spoiler on Arlong Park forum, there will a Toriko x One Piece one-shot Manga similar to Cross Epoch in issue 17 of the Japanese Shonen Jump.

Your link is leading to a login page instead of the thread.

I tried to find the thread by browsing AP, but I didn't find it.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

According to a translation of a One Piece spoiler on Arlong Park forum, there will a Toriko x One Piece one-shot Manga similar to Cross Epoch in issue 17 of the Japanese Shonen Jump.

Your link is leading to a login page instead of the thread.

I tried to find the thread by browsing AP, but I didn't find it.

You have to be a member of Arlong Park forum to view the spoiler section.

[Chuquita]

According to a translation of a One Piece spoiler on Arlong Park forum, there will a Toriko x One Piece one-shot Manga similar to Cross Epoch in issue 17 of the Japanese Shonen Jump.

Your link is leading to a login page instead of the thread.

I tried to find the thread by browsing AP, but I didn't find it.

You have to be a member of Arlong Park forum to view the spoiler section.

Ah. I had an account there, but it's around 4 years old and I think I only actually posted once or twice. I tried to find it in the members list and it was gone. Maybe after a while if you don't use your account on AP they just delete your account to free up space?

[Goku100xKamehameha]

I don't really know about that....

Also, the one-shot will have "center color", too. Whatever that means...

[Turtle Marked Stone]

I want a Dragon Ball Kai pancake pan...

Is it too late to change my username to Turtle Marked Pancake?