The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZAOTA482]

How can you hate Gohan? He's the best haha.

One of the reasons Rocketman hates him is because because of the way he became the strongest one.

Which character didn't become stronger through some stupid crap?

Goku, Vegeta, Kuririn, Yamcha, Kame-shinnin, Tenshinhan etc.

[Mystic Gohan]

One of the reasons Rocketman hates him is because because of the way he became the strongest one.

Which character didn't become stronger through some stupid crap?

Goku, Vegeta, Kuririn, Yamcha, Kame-shinnin, Tenshinhan etc.

Don't gimme none of that. haha. Goku got numerous zenkais and had otherworldy training, which nobody else got. Vegeta got numerous zenkais and gravity machine. Krillin got the guru power up instead of training himself. Yamcha....Well Yamcha didn't get jacksquat. Tenshinhan....Well he didn't get nothing, but he's irrelevant in Z anyway.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Compared to Majin Boo, I mean.

I'm gonna need some proof of this.

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world. Majin Boo gets by mostly on his regeneration and ridiculous power. Not to say that that the latter isn't part of what makes Gohan get by too, but he still has at least some skill. Boo never showed much in the way of skill, which isn't surprising, because he's haxxed even more than Gohan.

[Pantalones]

What actually allows him (Vegetto) to kill gag characters.

A few pages late, but how about this: gag characters aren't actually some all-powerful force that can do whatever the hell they want, they're only portrayed as unstoppable or super-overpowered for the sake of a joke (hence the term "gag characters," most of what they do is just a joke and not to be taken really seriously.) When put in serious situations, they may still be powerful but they definitely aren't going to go around pulling impossible stunts due to some vaguely defined "gag character omnipotence" that Internet-people ascribe to them. If put in a serious fight with a main character instead of some second-rate villain like General Blue, they would probably lose horribly. Remember that there's another kind of joke character, along the lines of Mr. Satan or Fat Gogeta... the kind that gets their ass handed to them in some humiliating way without getting seriously injured in the process, even against a dead-serious opponent... that's what gag characters become when you put them in a serious fight against someone who really matters. They may not ever get killed but they still don't have a chance.

Now, that's not to say that silly characters can't *ACTUALLY* be super-powerful. You don't have to be serious to be powerful, just like how you don't need to be a full-blown gag character to do silly stuff. Gotenks and Fat Buu are proof of that. The difference is that their power is still taken seriously even when their personality and abilities are jokey; Majin Buu is a real threat even when he's hopping up and down screeching about candy and turning demon kings into cookies, because he really is that strong and the next second he might be blowing up some random city or beating up Vegeta just for fun. With actual gag characters, their whole existence revolves around their jokey-ness--a gag character is almost never a serious threat, which is probably why you don't really get "gag villains" very much (unless they're the "always gets beat up but never dies" variety of jokey characters instead of the "does inexplicably high-level stuff as a joke" type.)

A certain fusion of Goku and Vegeta isn't some all-powerful force nobody could ever hope to match, either... but he at least comes closer due to actually being depicted as *THAT* much stronger than everyone else in serious scenes, not just the jokey ones like "fighting as a candy." And even that's more "fusion magic is weird + he's stronger than Buu's magic so he can shrug it off even when it works" than "he's a gag character, he can do anything! lol!!1!1"

[Saiga]

The power up Yamcha and Tenshinhan got from sparring at Kami's is pretty bullshit.

So yeah, most characters got bullshit power ups.

[mysticboy]

SSJ3 Adult Gotenks vs. Omega?

Omega wins with ease or do you see more of an even fight?

[DBZAOTA482]

Omega wins with pure ease....unless the logic of GT strikes once again.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yi Xing Long rapes Gotenks for 5 minutes.

[Rocketman]

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world.

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

[Saiga]

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world.

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

That can be said for nearly every character.

[Mystic Gohan]

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world.

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

[DBZAOTA482]

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world.

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

Goku vs. Vegeta
Vegeta vs. Dodoria
Vegeta vs. Zarbon
Vegeta vs. Gurd
Vegeta vs. Jheese
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu (in Goku's body)
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu
Gohan vs. Vegeta (I know it's filler but still an example nonetheless)
Vegeta vs. 19
Vegeta vs. Semi-perfect Cell
Vegeta vs. Bulma (if you know what I mean.. )
Vegeta vs. Pui-Pui

[Mystic Gohan]

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

Goku vs. Vegeta
Vegeta vs. Dodoria
Vegeta vs. Zarbon
Vegeta vs. Gurd
Vegeta vs. Jheese
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu (in Goku's body)
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu
Gohan vs. Vegeta (I know it's filler but still an example nonetheless)
Vegeta vs. 19
Vegeta vs. Semi-perfect Cell
Vegeta vs. Bulma (if you know what I mean.. )
Vegeta vs. Pui-Pui[/quote]
1. Had an advantage. When he lost his advantage, he got his ass kicked.
2. Had a power advantage
3. Had an advantage. When he lost his advantage, he got his ass kicked
4. Killed him from behind and he had an advantage in power.
5. Seems you left out his fight before his zenkai eh? Either way, he had a power advantage. Skill had no factor in the fight.
6. He had a giant freaking advantage over Ginyu (Goku)
7. Ginyu was weakened incredibly already. He could barely put up resistance.
8. Saw Android 19 before hand and had a power advantage.
9. Had a giant freaking power advantage.
10. I got you
11. This one, I don't need to elaborate.

This pattern holds true for what Rocketman said. All characters: 1. Have an advantage and 2. Charge headfirst. Even the most "skilled fighters".

[Piccolo Daimao]

Gohan has actually had training from Gokuu and Piccolo, two of the most skilled martial artists in the world.

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

So...same as in the majority of fights for the other so-called "skilled" characters? I mean, Vegeta's constantly touted as being second to Gokuu in terms of both power and skill, yet when he's pushed into a corner, his only strategy is to spam ki blasts. Post-Freeza, of course. But even in the Freeza arc, the only example I can think of where Vegeta's skill played a part was his rematch with Zarbon, and even then, he may've been at least slightly stronger than him, and possibly would've won by his own power anyway.

Rocketman, face it. You're just whining for the sake of whining right now. We get it. You don't like Gohan. Stop beating us over the goddamn head with it. Even if Gohan isn't all that skilled, he's still better than Boo, who primarily gets by on magic and regeneration. Aside from what they show in actual battle, Gohan has been trained in martial arts, while Boo hasn't. I can't find an instance of Boo fighting with skill either.

[DBZAOTA482]

Doesn't matter. Gohan only has two settings:

1. Be so overwhelmingly strong the opponent can't touch him
2. Charge headfirst

If you can find an instance of Gohan fighting with skill, I'll be glad to see it.

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

Goku vs. Vegeta
Vegeta vs. Dodoria
Vegeta vs. Zarbon
Vegeta vs. Gurd
Vegeta vs. Jheese
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu (in Goku's body)
Vegeta vs. Captain Ginyu
Gohan vs. Vegeta (I know it's filler but still an example nonetheless)
Vegeta vs. 19
Vegeta vs. Semi-perfect Cell
Vegeta vs. Bulma (if you know what I mean.. )
Vegeta vs. Pui-Pui

1. Had an advantage. When he lost his advantage, he got his ass kicked.
2. Had a power advantage
3. Had an advantage. When he lost his advantage, he got his ass kicked
4. Killed him from behind and he had an advantage in power.
5. Seems you left out his fight before his zenkai eh? Either way, he had a power advantage. Skill had no factor in the fight.
6. He had a giant freaking advantage over Ginyu (Goku)
7. Ginyu was weakened incredibly already. He could barely put up resistance.
8. Saw Android 19 before hand and had a power advantage.
9. Had a giant freaking power advantage.
10. I got you
11. This one, I don't need to elaborate.

This pattern holds true for what Rocketman said. All characters: 1. Have an advantage and 2. Charge headfirst. Even the most "skilled fighters".[/quote]
True, although Rocketman won't stop until he proves contrary to the matter.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Vegeta actually showed skill in the 2nd bout with Zarbon. He already had a strategy planned out before the battle began, and once it started, he was able to throw Zarbon off his game--albeit with a cheap trick. I still think skill should apply there. If not fighting skill, then strategic skill.

Gohan's image training (go ahead and laugh ) was a showing of skill as well. I believe he had around the same Battle Power as Krillin at that point. His advantage was not only attributed to his Saiyan ancestry, but also his training with Piccolo. Gohan also showed good skill against Vegeta, despite being at a disadvantage in terms of power, experience, and skill. I mean, he was only five yrs old, after all.

Don't be hating on the greatest Saiyan alive!

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta actually showed skill in the 2nd bout with Zarbon. He already had a strategy planned out before the battle began, and once it started, he was able to throw Zarbon off his game--albeit with a cheap trick. I still think skill should apply there. If not fighting skill, then strategic skill.

Yeah, but that's the only example I can think of. All other times were primarily because he was stronger than his opponent, and when the opponent actually ends up surpassing him, he resorts to energy blast barrages rather than trying to expose a weakness.

Gohan's image training (go ahead and laugh ) was a showing of skill as well. I believe he had around the same Battle Power as Krillin at that point. His advantage was not only attributed to his Saiyan ancestry, but also his training with Piccolo. Gohan also showed good skill against Vegeta, despite being at a disadvantage in terms of power, experience, and skill. I mean, he was only five yrs old, after all.

Rocketman probably won't buy that, since it's not as much of an explicit example (in the manga, we didn't see Gohan and Kuririn's actual image training) and Gohan arguably held out as long as he did before getting beaten because Vegeta had been weakened by Gokuu's Kaiouken x3 Kamehameha and using the Power Ball.

Not that I disagree with you, though. I'm just pointing it out.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Oh, I have no doubt those aren't the best examples, but I just wanted to throw them out there

Vegeta was definitely weakened, but he was still pretty powerful at that point. I just think, with Krillin basically being down in one kick, Gohan showing good resistance against Vegeta should at least count for a skillful showing, considering the situation. Even Vegeta thought he was good, but of course, he could just be busting his balls But I guess it all comes down to how you view the use of "skill" here. I see skill as more than just using fancy fighting techniques.

[DBZAOTA482]

Don't be hating on the greatest Saiyan alive!

He's not. He's hating on Gohan.

[DBZAOTA482]

Don't be hating on the greatest Saiyan alive!

He's not. He's hating on Gohan.