The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I consider Gohan the best Saiyan in the series, so to me, he is

[DBZAOTA482]

I consider Gohan the best Saiyan in the series, so to me, he is

To me, he's not Saiyan-y enough. You know what I'm saiyan?

[Edward Newgate]

How strong is 4 years old Pan compared to Goku of the very first chapter?

Goku's PL at the beginning was 10, he was twice as strong as the farmer; while Pain was smacking Wild Tiger around during the tournament.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I understand I guess it makes more sense to say he's the best Saiyan hybrid, but that title doesn't mean much. I give up. Raditz is the greatest Saiyan ever. He's manly, has long hair, and has no qualms harming his own little brother. Nothing can top that.

Alright, time for another battle: Super Saiyan Gohan Vs Cell

Basically, this is a battle like the one in the Cell Games, but the catch is Gohan's actually willing to fight Cell this time. Cell's still at the level where he was when he fought Goku. How does Gohan do?

Pan's pretty strong. Not sure how strong, but I think she's well beyond Goku when he was first introduced.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Super Saiyan Gohan Vs Cell

Basically, this is a battle like the one in the Cell Games, but the catch is Gohan's actually willing to fight Cell this time. Cell's still at the level where he was when he fought Goku. How does Gohan do?

Gohan's marginally stronger, but Cell's both more skilled (possessing Gokuu and co.'s techniques, to boot) and has regeneration in his favour. So Cell wins.

[Mystic Gohan]

I understand I guess it makes more sense to say he's the best Saiyan hybrid, but that title doesn't mean much. I give up. Raditz is the greatest Saiyan ever. He's manly, has long hair, and has no qualms harming his own little brother. Nothing can top that.

Alright, time for another battle: Super Saiyan Gohan Vs Cell

Basically, this is a battle like the one in the Cell Games, but the catch is Gohan's actually willing to fight Cell this time. Cell's still at the level where he was when he fought Goku. How does Gohan do?

Pan's pretty strong. Not sure how strong, but I think she's well beyond Goku when he was first introduced.

Gohan wins easily. He forced Cell to power-up.

[Rocketman]

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

He attacked Gurd from behind instead of charging straight at him like Gohan. Goading both Cell and Majin Buu into taking huge attacks. Attacking Cell from behind. Attacking Freeza's minions when they split up.

As for Buu, Buu used his stretchy body to surprise SS3 Goku with a kick through the ground.

Now you offer examples of Gohan strategery.

[Fox666]

And Gohan attacked Freeza from behind... also he and Kuririn hit him with Ki attacks... blah blah blah

[hleV]

Alright, time for another battle: Super Saiyan Gohan Vs Cell

Basically, this is a battle like the one in the Cell Games, but the catch is Gohan's actually willing to fight Cell this time. Cell's still at the level where he was when he fought Goku. How does Gohan do?

Gohan wins easily. He forced Cell to power-up.

Cell didn't power up against SSJ Gohan.

[dbgtFO]

Alright, time for another battle: Super Saiyan Gohan Vs Cell

Basically, this is a battle like the one in the Cell Games, but the catch is Gohan's actually willing to fight Cell this time. Cell's still at the level where he was when he fought Goku. How does Gohan do?

Cell would still start out underestimating Gohan, thus he'd be countered, as soon as he tries a half-assed attack. After a barrage of punches and kicks, Cell finally catches a break and starts going all-out in speed, but like in the original story he doesn't do much damage. Cell realizes his current level isn't enough to beat Gohan and so he releases all of his power, which is enough to easily defeat him.

[Fox666]

Cell didn't power up against SSJ Gohan.

Yes, he did.

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P6.4
Context: after fighting Gohan a little
Cell: “You’re a quick little brat…! How about I go all-out, in speed at least?”

Does this mean otherwise Cell couldn't fight Gohan?

[DBZAOTA482]

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

He attacked Gurd from behind instead of charging straight at him like Gohan. Goading both Cell and Majin Buu into taking huge attacks. Attacking Cell from behind. Attacking Freeza's minions when they split up.

As for Buu, Buu used his stretchy body to surprise SS3 Goku with a kick through the ground.

Now you offer examples of Gohan strategery.

There was the fight against the Cell Jrs., and Gohan launched a Ki blast below Dabra to give a diversion and kicked him in the face (anime-only).

[Mystic Gohan]

Haha, show me a single fight where Vegeta fights very skillfully. He's considered one of the best in the series.

He attacked Gurd from behind instead of charging straight at him like Gohan. Goading both Cell and Majin Buu into taking huge attacks. Attacking Cell from behind. Attacking Freeza's minions when they split up.

As for Buu, Buu used his stretchy body to surprise SS3 Goku with a kick through the ground.

Now you offer examples of Gohan strategery.

Vegeta killed him from behind. How does that show strategy? That's a cheap move for someone with "Saiyans pride"... Cell is an arrogant bastard, who opted for a KHH struggle when he could have decimated a one handed Gohan in hand to hand. Majin Buu can take anything, so....Again, attacked from behind. That's some strategy. Freeza's minions? Holy shit, he didn't have a power advantage there did he?

Gohan eh? Well, since attacking from behind is apparently a strategy, how about his stuff on 2nd form Freeza? The fact that he fights dead evenly with someone who's on-par with him in strength, while he hasn't fought in 7 years. Does much much better against Gotenks-Buu then Super Buu does against him, despite that power difference probably being around the same.

I didn't say that Gohan even had that much skill or strategy. Not sure how I got into this argument. I just said: "Other skilled fighters don't show me any impressive feats".

[Rocketman]

Vegeta killed him from behind. How does that show strategy?

...huh? "Attack where your enemy is weak" is pretty much the core of all strategy/tactics.

"Attack head-on because PRIDE" is the stupid decision that produces military fuck-ups like the Light Brigade or Pickett's Charge or pretty much all of World War I.


As for Freeza's minions, he didn't have a power advantage against all of them combined. So he waited and picked them off one-by-one. And even when defeated and captured, he managed to steal all the Dragonballs, escape unharmed, and kill Zarbon.

Or compare versus Recoome.

Vegeta - plays dead to blast Recoome in the face
Krillin - surprise-attacks Recoome to make him bite down on his own blast
Gohan - charges head-first, gets neck broken

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta killed him from behind. How does that show strategy?

...huh? "Attack where your enemy is weak" is pretty much the core of all strategy/tactics.

"Attack head-on because PRIDE" is the stupid decision that produces military fuck-ups like the Light Brigade or Pickett's Charge or pretty much all of World War I.


As for Freeza's minions, he didn't have a power advantage against all of them combined. So he waited and picked them off one-by-one. And even when defeated and captured, he managed to steal all the Dragonballs, escape unharmed, and kill Zarbon.

Or compare versus Recoome.

Vegeta - plays dead to blast Recoome in the face
Krillin - surprise-attacks Recoome to make him bite down on his own blast
Gohan - charges head-first, gets neck broken

But Vegeta doesn't show any strategy in battle after the Freeza arc, and even still, those "strategies" were mostly part of Vegeta being stronger than them at all times. The only exception is possibly his rematch with Zarbon. He was stronger than Dodoria, way stronger than Gurd (killing him off-guard in a middle of another battle, no less; that's not strategy, that's just cheating). When he realizes he can't defeat true-form Freeza, what does he do? He almost destroys the planet with a full-power blast, then cries like a little bitch and gives up.

Boo has no skill. He relies purely on his overwhelming power, magic, and regeneration. Something that, apart from the power, Gohan doesn't have.

I like how you ignore that after Kuririn does that surprise attack (which, again, isn't even strategy; it was an off-guard kick while Recoom was in the middle of fighting Vegeta), Recoom immediately recovers from it and puts Kuririn out of commission with one kick.

And since you like to give flimsy examples of strategy to justify your blatant bias against Gohan in what's meant to be a legitimate discussion, how about Gohan's demonstration of skill against Vegeta? He fired a blast at him, which Vegeta dodged, and then Gohan quickly took advantage of his dropped guard and kicked him in the face. You sound smart, but no offence, a lot of the time you just resort to juvenile ad hominems, such as "Vegetto can beat so-and-so because he's Vegetto", "Chi-Chi would never have an affair with Yamcha because he has a tiny penis" or "Gohan can't beat so-and-so because he's a wimpy little bitch FUCK GOHAN". Maybe one or two of those examples are hyperbole, but the point still stands.

I mean, Jesus, all we were saying is that Gohan could possibly defeat Boo because it's more than likely that he has more skill than Boo, since he's actually been trained. If it makes you happy, another reason for why I think Ultimate Gohan would beat Buff Boo is because I believe he's slightly stronger than him and could destroy him with a full-power blast, like what SS3 Gokuu could've done to Pure Boo if he didn't have the energy drain.

[DBZAOTA482]

Vegeta killed him from behind. How does that show strategy?

...huh? "Attack where your enemy is weak" is pretty much the core of all strategy/tactics.

"Attack head-on because PRIDE" is the stupid decision that produces military fuck-ups like the Light Brigade or Pickett's Charge or pretty much all of World War I.


As for Freeza's minions, he didn't have a power advantage against all of them combined. So he waited and picked them off one-by-one. And even when defeated and captured, he managed to steal all the Dragonballs, escape unharmed, and kill Zarbon.

Or compare versus Recoome.

Vegeta - plays dead to blast Recoome in the face
Krillin - surprise-attacks Recoome to make him bite down on his own blast
Gohan - charges head-first, gets neck broken

"Vegetto can beat so-and-so because he's Vegetto", "Chi-Chi would never have an affair with Yamcha because he has a tiny penis" or "Gohan can't beat so-and-so because he's a wimpy little bitch FUCK GOHAN".

I especially agree with the first one because Mr. Satan is truly the strongest character. He's the Chuck Norris of Dragon Ball.

[Kaboom]

Anyone else think we're going off on a bit too much of an unnecessary tangent here?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Anyone else think we're going off on a bit too much of an unnecessary tangent here?

Yes. I guess I kind of got too carried away as well as Rocketman, but I just felt the need to get it out there.

[Rocketman]

(killing him off-guard in a middle of another battle, no less; that's not strategy, that's just cheating)

What is this obsession with calling strategy/tactics "cheating"?

"You can't watch our movements from space, that's cheating!"

"You can't hide in a forest and ambush us, that's cheating!"

"You can't build a fortress on a hill, that's cheating!"

"You can't attack the weakest part of our lines, that's cheating!"

"You can't declare war on us while we're fighting another country, that's cheating!"

"You can't use Pikachu, items and Hyrule Castle, that's cheating!"

I'm honestly curious what you guys think a "real" strategy is.

I like how you ignore that after Kuririn does that surprise attack (which, again, isn't even strategy; it was an off-guard kick while Recoom was in the middle of fighting Vegeta), Recoom immediately recovers from it and puts Kuririn out of commission with one kick.

Strategies don't have to work to be strategies.

He fired a blast at him, which Vegeta dodged, and then Gohan quickly took advantage of his dropped guard and kicked him in the face.

*checks manga* Well, look at that. Somebody responded with an example I asked for. Good on you, I concede the point. Gohan does have some skill.

[Piccolo Daimao]

(killing him off-guard in a middle of another battle, no less; that's not strategy, that's just cheating)

What is this obsession with calling strategy/tactics "cheating"?

"You can't watch our movements from space, that's cheating!"

"You can't hide in a forest and ambush us, that's cheating!"

"You can't build a fortress on a hill, that's cheating!"

"You can't attack the weakest part of our lines, that's cheating!"

"You can't declare war on us while we're fighting another country, that's cheating!"

"You can't use Pikachu, items and Hyrule Castle, that's cheating!"

I'm honestly curious what you guys think a "real" strategy is.

I'm talking about strategies strictly in battle only. Dragon Ball strategy. Slicing an opponent's head off, when he's much weaker than you and in the middle of a fight with two other guys, isn't strategy. Like Gurd said, it was unfair, and the fight was between him, Gohan and Kuririn. Not Vegeta.

I like how you ignore that after Kuririn does that surprise attack (which, again, isn't even strategy; it was an off-guard kick while Recoom was in the middle of fighting Vegeta), Recoom immediately recovers from it and puts Kuririn out of commission with one kick.

Strategies don't have to work to be strategies.

No, but I can hardly call Kuririn charging in and knocking Recoom in the back of his head while he's fighting someone else as strategy. Anyone could do that.

He fired a blast at him, which Vegeta dodged, and then Gohan quickly took advantage of his dropped guard and kicked him in the face.

*checks manga* Well, look at that. Somebody responded with an example I asked for. Good on you, I concede the point. Gohan does have some skill.

And there we go.