Unpopular DB opinions

[Kanassa]

And considering that they do make up the majority of non-fodder enemies in the arc...

But the arc placed more emphasis on adventure than fighting. It was still pretty light hearted and gag heavy.

Ninja Murasaki is one of my favourite characters in the franchise. and whilst weaker than Goku wasn't exactly fodder.

I'd also say Goku struggled against the Pirate Robot.

Plus General White, Colonel Silver, and Black, despite being beaten relatively easily by Goku weren't exactly fodder. Especially not White who had the upper hand on Goku temporarily.

- Also Metalitron's batteries hadn't been changed for a long time I thought?

I was saying that in your favor, you can't eactly say that Goku doesn't face much opposition when the majoity of actual 'villains' he faces in the arc make him struggle.

[Krillin1994]

Oh haha I thought you were saying it like 'there were barely any non fodder characters so he had little opposition'

[ABED]

It's not as though it's either struggle or not. There are various degrees of struggle, and most of those guys aren't much of a threat on his life. So yes, I would still say he doesn't face much in the way of opposition since they provide minor obstacles to Goku achieving his goal.

Cymbol wasn't really that big a fight. Yajirobe quite effortlessly beat him and rather quickly and the struggle against 19 was only really a thing due to the heart virus though.

Sorry, I meant Tambourine. Goku never fought Cymbol and I was confused on which one is which. And whether 19 was a struggle just due to the heart virus isn't really the point, he nearly kills Goku whereas Murasaki and Metallic don't do anything much to him.

I think I'd have preferred Black to hijack the organisation because he has a ridiculous wish rather than the other way round.

Even there, Black isn't that interesting nor is he much trouble to Goku. Destroying the RRA at their HQ was anticlimactic after he killed Tao Pai Pai.

[Krillin1994]

But at the time of muscle tower the closeness to death and life threats for Goku hadn't been a thing we'd seen. So gauging proximity to death isn't really a valid way to describe how much opposition they provided.

Master Roshi was good opposition for Goku in the 21st world martial arts Tournament but he didn't nearly kill him.

[kinisking]

Super buu is the worst buu.

I agree. He's pretty uninteresting until he becomes buutenks. Kid boo is still my favorite though.

For my own unpopular opinion: Boo saga Gohan was way better than Teen Gohan which was an inconsistent mess of a character.

[ABED]

But at the time of muscle tower the closeness to death and life threats for Goku hadn't been a thing we'd seen. So gauging proximity to death isn't really a valid way to describe how much opposition they provided.

Master Roshi was good opposition for Goku in the 21st world martial arts Tournament but he didn't nearly kill him.

I would say that it was, but not the only way. Roshi took Goku to his limit, Buyon and Metallic don't even come close to that.

[Krillin1994]

But at the time of muscle tower the closeness to death and life threats for Goku hadn't been a thing we'd seen. So gauging proximity to death isn't really a valid way to describe how much opposition they provided.

Master Roshi was good opposition for Goku in the 21st world martial arts Tournament but he didn't nearly kill him.

I would say that it was, but not the only way. Roshi took Goku to his limit, Buyon and Metallic don't even come close to that.

The main antagonists don't have to take the hero to the limit to be more than 'little opposition' for them though. PIilaf had the gang beaten despite not taking them close to their limits in the first arc.

Major Metalitron had Goku questioning how he could beat him, because he was taking Goku's best attacks and still coming for him. If he can withstand a Kamehameha he is more than minor opposition imo.

[ABED]

The main antagonists don't have to take the hero to the limit to be more than 'little opposition' for them though. PIilaf had the gang beaten despite not taking them close to their limits in the first arc.

First, Pilaf was the villain when the manga was a gag manga. Second, at least he had them near death, and third, while the big bad doesn't necessarily have to pose a physical threat to the hero (usually a necessity in a shonen series), he should pose some sort of threat to the hero achieving his goal. Red checks none of those boxes, nor does black. Defeating them felt more like checking off a box than a cathartic moment.

Major Metalitron had Goku questioning how he could beat him, because he was taking Goku's best attacks and still coming for him. If he can withstand a Kamehameha he is more than minor opposition imo.

And yet Goku was able to beat Metallic and make his way through the rest of Muscle Tower. Goku took no real damage nor was he even physically exhausted after the fight. He's absolutely minor opposition. He doesn't even last an episode.

[Kanassa]

For my own unpopular opinion: Boo saga Gohan was way better than Teen Gohan which was an inconsistent mess of a character.

Bloody agreed, the ''Fight you? No. I'm going to kill you" sends more chills up my spine then anything Teen Gohan ever did. Plus, I actually enjoyed Gohan's time trying to get through highschool, it was strangly endearing.

[kinisking]

For my own unpopular opinion: Boo saga Gohan was way better than Teen Gohan which was an inconsistent mess of a character.

Bloody agreed, the ''Fight you? No. I'm going to kill you" sends more chills up my spine then anything Teen Gohan ever did. Plus, I actually enjoyed Gohan's time trying to get through highschool, it was strangly endearing.

Everything about him is perfect to me. Teen Gohan had badass to moments but it made his character so inconsistent for the sake of added drama. Why was Gohan acting like fighting Cell was pointless? He knew Cell was dangerous and needed to be disposed of. He never felt like the fights on Namek were pointless and always took them as seriously as possible. It was a probably to make his angry outburst more shocking but still, I didn't like it.

[Kanassa]

For my own unpopular opinion: Boo saga Gohan was way better than Teen Gohan which was an inconsistent mess of a character.

Bloody agreed, the ''Fight you? No. I'm going to kill you" sends more chills up my spine then anything Teen Gohan ever did. Plus, I actually enjoyed Gohan's time trying to get through highschool, it was strangly endearing.

Everything about him is perfect to me. Teen Gohan had badass to moments but it made his character so inconsistent for the sake of added drama. Why was Gohan acting like fighting Cell was pointless? He knew Cell was dangerous and needed to be disposed of. He never felt like the fights on Namek were pointless and always took them as seriously as possible. It was a probably to make his angry outburst more shocking but still, I didn't like it.

I'd be fine if they tried to play it as Gohan not being confident that he could stand up to Cell, but the whole stick of him trying to convince Cell to back down seemed stupid.

[FortuneSSJ]

I like FT Gohan's death flashback in DBS.
While not better than HOT version, it's still good on its own.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'd be fine if they tried to play it as Gohan not being confident that he could stand up to Cell, but the whole stick of him trying to convince Cell to back down seemed stupid.

Gohan was afraid control of his powers.

[RisanF]

For my own unpopular opinion: Boo saga Gohan was way better than Teen Gohan which was an inconsistent mess of a character.

Bloody agreed, the ''Fight you? No. I'm going to kill you" sends more chills up my spine then anything Teen Gohan ever did. Plus, I actually enjoyed Gohan's time trying to get through highschool, it was strangly endearing.

Everything about him is perfect to me. Teen Gohan had badass to moments but it made his character so inconsistent for the sake of added drama. Why was Gohan acting like fighting Cell was pointless? He knew Cell was dangerous and needed to be disposed of. He never felt like the fights on Namek were pointless and always took them as seriously as possible. It was a probably to make his angry outburst more shocking but still, I didn't like it.

Teen Gohan has some serious style in the Cell Saga (the piccolo cape is way cool), but a big problem is that he's basically a passive character. When he's not on the sidelines. Gohan generally has to be pushed along by stronger personalities for the majority of his fights. He needs Android 16 to prod him into going Super Saiyan 2, he needs Goku to encourage him from beyond the grave to defeat Cell, and along with Vegeta helping him with a final shot in the anime. there's a whole bunch of little things that keep Gohan from coming into his own. I think maybe this is why he never took the reigns from Goku; Dragon Ball needs a hero that wants to be there.

Going back to the Red Ribbon Saga, let's compare Gohan to Goku when they were about the same age. It's true Goku was sort of a passive hero himself in the Pilaf Saga (he's mostly led around by Bulma), in the RR Saga, he's in complete command. He takes on the quest for the dragon ball of his own volition, challenges the Red Ribbon's Muscle Tower purely to pay back Snow, promises to bring Bora back to life, and generally manages to get himself into all sorts of trouble. Dragon Ball is generally good when an active hero takes the reins and starts interacting with the world around them. It's not enough for Gohan to just sit there until he gets mad.

(I do admit Namek Saga Gohan and Buu Saga Gohan are a bit more proactive. And of course there's History of Trunks, where Gohan is waging a one-man, one-armed war against the androids. Apparently the Android Apocalypse was good for the personalities of all the heroes)

[kinisking]

Bloody agreed, the ''Fight you? No. I'm going to kill you" sends more chills up my spine then anything Teen Gohan ever did. Plus, I actually enjoyed Gohan's time trying to get through highschool, it was strangly endearing.

Everything about him is perfect to me. Teen Gohan had badass to moments but it made his character so inconsistent for the sake of added drama. Why was Gohan acting like fighting Cell was pointless? He knew Cell was dangerous and needed to be disposed of. He never felt like the fights on Namek were pointless and always took them as seriously as possible. It was a probably to make his angry outburst more shocking but still, I didn't like it.

Teen Gohan has some serious style in the Cell Saga (the piccolo cape is way cool), but a big problem is that he's basically a passive character. When he's not on the sidelines. Gohan generally has to be pushed along by stronger personalities for the majority of his fights. He needs Android 16 to prod him into going Super Saiyan 2, he needs Goku to encourage him from beyond the grave to defeat Cell, and along with Vegeta helping him with a final shot in the anime. there's a whole bunch of little things that keep Gohan from coming into his own. I think maybe this is why he never took the reigns from Goku; Dragon Ball needs a hero that wants to be there.

Going back to the Red Ribbon Saga, let's compare Gohan to Goku when they were about the same age. It's true Goku was sort of a passive hero himself in the Pilaf Saga (he's mostly led around by Bulma), in the RR Saga, he's in complete command. He takes on the quest for the dragon ball of his own volition, challenges the Red Ribbon's Muscle Tower purely to pay back Snow, promises to bring Bora back to life, and generally manages to get himself into all sorts of trouble. Dragon Ball is generally good when an active hero takes the reins and starts interacting with the world around them. It's not enough for Gohan to just sit there until he gets mad.

(I do admit Namek Saga Gohan and Buu Saga Gohan are a bit more proapctive. And of course there's History of Trunks, where Gohan is waging a one-man, one-armed war against the androids. Apparently the Android Apocalypse was good for the personalities of all the heroes)

You're right, the passivity was straight up annoying at times. I blame Akira for wanting tension and adding to the drama. Making him more passive made the ss2 transformation more drastic. However, I don't blame him for giving up after he protected vegeta. Vegeta himself had clearly given up at that point, so I'm not surprised Gohan did when he noticed. I don't think that was completely out of character at least.

[ABED]

No, giving up wasn't out of character, but not generally something you want from your central hero.

[Polyphase Avatron]

No, giving up wasn't out of character, but not generally something you want from your central hero.

At least be thankful it's not as bad as Star Trek: The Next Generation. Our first introduction to the new captain and he's an old bald French guy - who surrenders in the very first episode. It's a miracle his reputation survived that.

[Kanassa]

No, giving up wasn't out of character, but not generally something you want from your central hero.

At least be thankful it's not as bad as Star Trek: The Next Generation. Our first introduction to the new captain and he's an old bald French guy - who surrenders in the very first episode. It's a miracle his reputation survived that.

Yeah, but it was Patrick Stewart.

[Cipher]

I believe this is an unpopular opinion, but I'm rewatching Kai's Cell arc now, and I prefer Wakamoto's vastly hammier performance in it. When Cell first speaks to Piccolo, it's creepy as hell.

[ABED]

No, giving up wasn't out of character, but not generally something you want from your central hero.

At least be thankful it's not as bad as Star Trek: The Next Generation. Our first introduction to the new captain and he's an old bald French guy - who surrenders in the very first episode. It's a miracle his reputation survived that.

I literally just watched the first two episodes of TNG yesterday for the first time. I don't remember Picard giving up. If he did, it was strategic. Gohan gave up out of hopelessness.