Season Six Discussion Thread

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:28 pm

Tweaker wrote:Wait, I'm confused--I was under the impression that the grainy picture posted earlier in the thread was DragonBox quality. Are you saying it's not? If so, I'd like to see an example of the quality from the DragonBox so I could determine if I prefer that or not.

And please excuse my newbish questions; I'm still getting into the hang of things.

Did you not see the video comparison links above. Take the time to download the high quality version. You can see the grain in motion (which tends not to be noticeable) and can see how 1) the FUNI version has slightly altered colors, 2) the "widescreen is more" argument is bogus and 3) lightness/darkness issues can make a difference (watch as Cell and Gohan disappear in the Kamahame-Ha light, but are still visible in the DBox shot).

As someone else pointed out, even though its not DBox quality, is it worth the price you can grab it for? The cranks out to about a dollar an episode. I'm not sure if any series is going to get much better than that.

Also, I didn't hear anyone say it, but does anyone want a few more comparison videos, or no? If so, give me a few scenes (I would prefer doing different ones from different season sets). Keep in mind I don't have all the DBox singles, so I'm half limited.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:31 pm

ect5150 wrote:Also, I didn't hear anyone say it, but does anyone want a few more comparison videos, or no?

From Season Six specifically, I wouldn't mind seeing the transformation scene, if you're up to it.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:01 pm

ect5150 wrote:Did you not see the video comparison links above. Take the time to download the high quality version. You can see the grain in motion (which tends not to be noticeable) and can see how 1) the FUNI version has slightly altered colors, 2) the "widescreen is more" argument is bogus and 3) lightness/darkness issues can make a difference (watch as Cell and Gohan disappear in the Kamahame-Ha light, but are still visible in the DBox shot).

I just took a look, and to me the grain is very noticable in motion, probably moreso than in still images. The color changes actually make everything look a bit better and more defined (though that's probably a matter of taste), and I already knew the widescreen thing was bogus (which is one point I'll concede to). I also consider the two characters disappearing in the bright light a very minor issue, as, overall, the remasters still look better to me.

But that's just it--they look better to me. It's a matter of what you prefer, if you're totally behind supporting the original film unedited, and if you violently hate FUNimation touching the series. I think it looks better, and that's just how I feel. Though I can certainly understand some of the points you've raised, don't get me wrong there.

As for more comparison videos, I'd love to see them! Who knows, maybe there's more glaring issues that might change my mind.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:13 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:[ I have even gotten Season Two to look almost as good as the Dragon Boxes (color-wise)
Honestly, I really don't think thats possible with the video quality of the season two set, it's overbrightened to the point I don't think the more subtle colours like the pink in the skintones even exist anymore, no matter how much you tweak it.

And believe me, I've tried.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. At least it's easier on the eyes when darkened though.

SSJToreto · Post by **SSJToreto** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:13 pm

ect5150 wrote:
Also, I didn't hear anyone say it, but does anyone want a few more comparison videos, or no? If so, give me a few scenes (I would prefer doing different ones from different season sets). Keep in mind I don't have all the DBox singles, so I'm half limited.

Well, if you need any DBOX footage you can ask me.

I too hope to see some more comparison's from season six episodes.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:22 pm

The thing I think people aren't taking into consideration, is that the vertical footage is just slightly less than on the FUNimation singles DVDs. Of course it is cropped a lot compared to the Dragon Boxes (you lose more than you gain), but then so are the singles, but you don't see people complaining about them.

Honestly, I believe what Steve Franko meant was that compared to the earlier releases we practically loose nothing and actually gain more than we lose. (although that "original colors" thing was BS for the most part; Season Six's colors may be due to FUNimation's craptastic masters.)

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:41 pm

Tweaker wrote:The color changes actually make everything look a bit better and more defined (though that's probably a matter of taste), ... I also consider the two characters disappearing in the bright light a very minor issue, as, overall, the remasters still look better to me.

The issue here is the trade-off it creates. They are bumping up the colors at the cost of darkness and whiteness. There isn't a magic button to create more than what's on the originals. You may like the darker colors, but its just a distortion of the color levels one way or the other (up or down). I agree it can be a matter of taste, but I think the DBox owners are those who 1) can afford it and 2) prefer the original colors (as in "the way it was meant to be seen"... sorry, couldn't help but poke fun at FUNI there).

We just went over the grain issue in another thread the other day. Its apart of the picture, always has been, and apparently always will be even though we're in the digital age.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:57 pm

ect5150 wrote:The issue here is the trade-off it creates. They are bumping up the colors at the cost of darkness and whiteness. There isn't a magic button to create more than what's on the originals. You may like the darker colors, but its just a distortion of the color levels one way or the other (up or down). I agree it can be a matter of taste, but I think the DBox owners are those who 1) can afford it and 2) prefer the original colors (as in "the way it was meant to be seen"... sorry, couldn't help but poke fun at FUNI there).

Completely fair. And yeah, it's like if you encode an mp3 from 320kbps, down to 96kbps, and back up to 320kbps. You've inflicted irreversible quality loss on the colors, and you're not getting them back even if you reverse the process you used to get to that point. There's only so many colors in the rainbow, after all...

We just went over the grain issue in another thread the other day. Its apart of the picture, always has been, and apparently always will be even though we're in the digital age.

I had always seen the grain as a loss of quality due to the test of time on the original film, but if it's supposed to be that way, I guess I can't really complain.

TheSonofKakarrot · Post by **TheSonofKakarrot** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:43 am

SSJToreto wrote:Is it just me or does grain show up more on a LCD monitor compared to a normal CRT TV?

Thats because your LCD is mos tlikely a 1366x768 pixel display. With LCDs, because they have a set amount of pixels it has to upscale. These DVD's are 640x480p so your TV has to upscale to its native resolution. It might not necessarily be grain that you're seeing but I know exactly what you're talking about. When watching on a CRT, the display is 480/i/p which is the native resolution of the discs so you're seeing it without the upscaling. This is why Wii games looks far worse on HDTVs than on CRT's because they have to upscale.

Someone had mentioned before but the PS3 does an incredible job of upscaling. It definitely has one of the best built in upscalers on the market, trust me. I could barely notice that this was a DVD when watching these discs. It could also be that, not to brag, I have the best LCD on the market in terms of PQ which is the Samsung A650. I highly recommend watching any DVD material via a PS3 for the reasons stated above and if possible, or if you're looking for a new LCD, buy the A650.

And I'm not just speaking out of my you know what. AVSforums can confirm everything I've said up above. A while back someone here had said with a PS3 he thought he was watching a Blu Ray movie despite it being a season set. I didn't have a PS3 at the time but now that I do, I see why he said that.

But to get back on topic this is definitely the best looking season set released thus far. Its well worth the $30. I honestly forgot about that whole widescreen cropping issue and although you are missing more footage, its not enough to distract you from the overall enjoyment of the discs.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:29 am

Six is my least favorite "season" in all of Dragonball (not counting GT). I'm going to wait until the price drops, and even then I might not watch the damn thing, just have it for completeness and for my girlfriend to watch.

SSJToreto · Post by **SSJToreto** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:30 am

TheSonofKakarrot wrote:
SSJToreto wrote:Is it just me or does grain show up more on a LCD monitor compared to a normal CRT TV?
Thats because your LCD is mos tlikely a 1366x768 pixel display. With LCDs, because they have a set amount of pixels it has to upscale. These DVD's are 640x480p so your TV has to upscale to its native resolution.

It's not a LCD TV, it's an LCD monitor. There's a difference I believe... It's an LG Flatron L1510P with a resolution of 1024 x 768...

You mean I'm fucked because I watch my DVD's on this resolution? What, should I swith to 640x480? I don't remember such a resolution on a PC monitor.

I'm kinda lost on this one...

TheSonofKakarrot · Post by **TheSonofKakarrot** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:24 pm

SSJToreto wrote:
TheSonofKakarrot wrote:
SSJToreto wrote:Is it just me or does grain show up more on a LCD monitor compared to a normal CRT TV?
Thats because your LCD is mos tlikely a 1366x768 pixel display. With LCDs, because they have a set amount of pixels it has to upscale. These DVD's are 640x480p so your TV has to upscale to its native resolution.
It's not a LCD TV, it's an LCD monitor. There's a difference I believe... It's an LG Flatron L1510P with a resolution of 1024 x 768...

You mean I'm fucked because I watch my DVD's on this resolution? What, should I swith to 640x480? I don't remember such a resolution on a PC monitor.

I'm kinda lost on this one...

Sorry, didn't realize you said monitor. But it still has to upscale, just not as much as I thought.

Do you have a CRT? You're better off watching it on that since it has the DVD's native resolution (640x480) or get a DVD player with a very good upscaler (PS3 as I said earlier has one of the best on the market as well as their Blu Ray player).

SSJToreto · Post by **SSJToreto** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:29 pm

TheSonofKakarrot wrote:
SSJToreto wrote:
TheSonofKakarrot wrote: Thats because your LCD is mos tlikely a 1366x768 pixel display. With LCDs, because they have a set amount of pixels it has to upscale. These DVD's are 640x480p so your TV has to upscale to its native resolution.
It's not a LCD TV, it's an LCD monitor. There's a difference I believe... It's an LG Flatron L1510P with a resolution of 1024 x 768...

You mean I'm fucked because I watch my DVD's on this resolution? What, should I swith to 640x480? I don't remember such a resolution on a PC monitor.

I'm kinda lost on this one...
Sorry, didn't realize you said monitor. But it still has to upscale, just not as much as I thought.

Do you have a CRT? You're better off watching it on that since it has the DVD's native resolution (640x480) or get a DVD player with a very good upscaler (PS3 as I said earlier has one of the best on the market as well as their Blu Ray player).

I have a CRT monitor. What would I gain by upscaling the Dragon Boxes btw? I have a PS3, but it's US, I don't think it will read Japanese R2 dvd's.

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:32 pm

SSJToreto wrote:
TheSonofKakarrot wrote:
SSJToreto wrote: It's not a LCD TV, it's an LCD monitor. There's a difference I believe... It's an LG Flatron L1510P with a resolution of 1024 x 768...

You mean I'm fucked because I watch my DVD's on this resolution? What, should I swith to 640x480? I don't remember such a resolution on a PC monitor.

I'm kinda lost on this one...
Sorry, didn't realize you said monitor. But it still has to upscale, just not as much as I thought.

Do you have a CRT? You're better off watching it on that since it has the DVD's native resolution (640x480) or get a DVD player with a very good upscaler (PS3 as I said earlier has one of the best on the market as well as their Blu Ray player).
I have a CRT monitor. What would I gain by upscaling the Dragon Boxes btw? I have a PS3, but it's US, I don't think it will read Japanese R2 dvd's.

It upscales the video to HD resolution.Also I think America and Japan have they same region code on the PS3 system.

Levlik · Post by **Levlik** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:39 pm

SSJToreto wrote:
TheSonofKakarrot wrote:
SSJToreto wrote: It's not a LCD TV, it's an LCD monitor. There's a difference I believe... It's an LG Flatron L1510P with a resolution of 1024 x 768...

You mean I'm fucked because I watch my DVD's on this resolution? What, should I swith to 640x480? I don't remember such a resolution on a PC monitor.

I'm kinda lost on this one...
Sorry, didn't realize you said monitor. But it still has to upscale, just not as much as I thought.

Do you have a CRT? You're better off watching it on that since it has the DVD's native resolution (640x480) or get a DVD player with a very good upscaler (PS3 as I said earlier has one of the best on the market as well as their Blu Ray player).
I have a CRT monitor. What would I gain by upscaling the Dragon Boxes btw? I have a PS3, but it's US, I don't think it will read Japanese R2 dvd's.

It won't. The PS3 may be region free for Blu-Rays, but not DVDs. It's stupid, yeah, but that's how they programmed it.

SSJToreto · Post by **SSJToreto** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:59 pm

Levlik wrote:
SSJToreto wrote:
TheSonofKakarrot wrote: Sorry, didn't realize you said monitor. But it still has to upscale, just not as much as I thought.

Do you have a CRT? You're better off watching it on that since it has the DVD's native resolution (640x480) or get a DVD player with a very good upscaler (PS3 as I said earlier has one of the best on the market as well as their Blu Ray player).
I have a CRT monitor. What would I gain by upscaling the Dragon Boxes btw? I have a PS3, but it's US, I don't think it will read Japanese R2 dvd's.
It won't. The PS3 may be region free for Blu-Rays, but not DVDs. It's stupid, yeah, but that's how they programmed it.

Actually, blu-rays aren't region free. Just the games.

What upscaling option should I choose from the PS3? Normal or Double scale?

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:03 pm

SSJToreto wrote:Actually, blu-rays aren't region free.

There's quite a load of Region Free Blu-rays out there.

DragoonClawNZ · Post by **DragoonClawNZ** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:29 pm

The Time Traveller wrote:
SSJToreto wrote:Actually, blu-rays aren't region free.
There's quite a load of Region Free Blu-rays out there.

Yeah and luckily the Broly Double Feature was one of them. I don't care about getting the Blu-Ray releases of the Steelbook Double Features, the DVDs are awesome but I do care with the Broly Double Feature. Since now I have it, all I'm waiting for is to get a PS3.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:54 pm

If HD-DVD was the standard like it all should have been, then everything in HD would have been region-free. The HD-DVD standard just didn't have region coding in it at all.

But that's off topic.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:56 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:If HD-DVD was the standard like it all should have been, then everything in HD would have been region-free. The HD-DVD standard just didn't have region coding in it at all.

Yeah, who needs the better video and sound quality of Blu-Ray, HD-DVD had picture in picture!