Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?

[Rocketman]

I honestly don't see why SSJ God being above Vegetto is so hard to believe.

It's not "hard to believe", not really. I mean, they already slobbered all over Goku's cock in GT and the other movies, why wouldn't they do it again (to rousing cheers from the audience this time, for some bizarre reason).

I simply reject it, for the same reasons I reject GT going BASE GOKU IS SOOOO MUCH STRONGER THAN BUU YOU GUYS FOR REALS.


Billy being stronger than Vegetto is a-ok. Goku being stronger than Vegetto is HORSE. SHIT. THE SCREAMING RAGE IN MY SOUL CANNOT BE CONTAINED IN THIS PATHETIC FORUM.



*cough*

[TheMightyOzaru]

Right because a 6 Saiyan God ritual is much less effective than a 2 Saiyan fusion. SSJ God isn't even specific to Goku. I bet you wouldn't be complaining had Vegeta got the power up.

[Rocketman]

No, it's still a stupid shitty retcon of crap even if it doesn't benefit Goku.

I don't like Vegeta suddenly getting rage boosts either, for example. It's just that discussions tend to focus on the sparkly new powerup.

[Draken]

If you hate it so much why do you feel the need to spam it all over the place and continue to join in on discussions involving BoG?

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, it's still a stupid shitty retcon of crap even if it doesn't benefit Goku.

I don't like Vegeta suddenly getting rage boosts either, for example. It's just that discussions tend to focus on the sparkly new powerup.

Retcon of what? Characters have been surpassed before and Vegetto is no exception to that. Seriously, one character we never see again is bound to be surpassed eventually. Goku's eternity in Otherworld would eventually lead to such power.

[miguelnuva1]

Super Baby 1 surpassed MSSJ Vegito. Goku says in GT that Baby after getting saiyan power is the strongest ki he ever felt.

[Kamiccolo9]

Super Baby 1 surpassed MSSJ Vegito. Goku says in GT that Baby after getting saiyan power is the strongest ki he ever felt.

Did Goku feel Vegetto's ki? He didn't exist then.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Super Baby 1 surpassed MSSJ Vegito. Goku says in GT that Baby after getting saiyan power is the strongest ki he ever felt.

The GT perfect files say Vegetto might be stronger than SSJ4. Goku obviously wasn't taking into account his fused self.

[hleV]

It doesn't matter, you implied nothing in GT or filler could beat Vegetto.

I don't have to.

You're wrong because the GT perfect files and BoG states otherwise.

I don't care what GT or BOG states, they're both stupid.

Oh and who is to say SSJ God Goku, SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Gogeta, etc couldn't beat the shit outta Buu as a candy?

Who's to say that they could? They didn't display any incredible feats.

Who is to say that anime Vegetto isn't A x B. Nothing implies that he isn't.

GT Perfect Files, which states that Vegetto is only perhaps stronger than SS4. Unless you think SS4 is somehow around Goku x Vegeta, which it's not.

Whoopdy doo, he has a Ki sword, so does Salza. Is he the strongest in the universe?

Salza is from a movie. Movies don't matter. And ki sword was a joke argument.

BoG also follows the manga as if it were a sequel.

Really? How so? How is it any different than the other movies that seemingly don't contradict the manga much?

Whether you think it's canon or not is irrelevant in this situation.

No, what matters is that GT and movies cannot be taken seriously.

Goku's claim supports SSJ God being superior to anything Vegetto can do.

In a movie. Doesn't matter.

I will never trust a movie, unless Toriyama himself tells that it can be trusted.

To explain better what I'm actually arguing about:
I'm not saying that beings stronger than Vegetto cannot be invented. I'm saying that they don't look as stronger than Vegetto one bit. And statements in movies don't necessarily have to be taken seriously, because movies tend to neglect what's established in the manga. BOG has enough of contradictions to the manga to not be taken seriously.

[miguelnuva1]

Super Baby 1 surpassed MSSJ Vegito. Goku says in GT that Baby after getting saiyan power is the strongest ki he ever felt.

Did Goku feel Vegetto's ki? He didn't exist then.

Yes he was fused it was his own ki.

[Draken]

Super Baby 1 surpassed MSSJ Vegito. Goku says in GT that Baby after getting saiyan power is the strongest ki he ever felt.

Did Goku feel Vegetto's ki? He didn't exist then.

Yes he was fused it was his own ki.

Goku didn't exist, how does he feel himself?

Really? How so? How is it any different than the other movies that seemingly don't contradict the manga much?

hleV Toriyama and the entire staff made it pretty clear the movie was to be trusted... I'm not going to bother bringing back all the quotes shown to prove it to you because you just don't want to believe it. What has Vegetto done himself? He hasn't been shown to fly very fast, make very big explosions, or anything. His only feat was getting absorbed by Buuhan to free his friends and family from the inside.

Really? List all the contradictions BoG has then please.

GT Perfect Files, which states that Vegetto is only perhaps stronger than SS4. Unless you think SS4 is somehow around Goku x Vegeta, which it's not.

Goku x Vegeta DBZ and SSJ4 GT are huge differences. The power gaps are immense, who's to say that it isn't?

I don't care what GT or BOG states, they're both stupid.

Great argument, let's not use that as fact then shall we?

Who's to say that they could? They didn't display any incredible feats.

Neither has Vegetto. Using your feats argument the strongest character in DBZ is first form Freeza. Feats argument in DBZ is stupid because they rarely exist and the only way to even estimate power is through power-scaling and statements.

[hleV]

Vegetto remained conscious, just as powerful, and was able to breathe and speak in a form of candy.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Again, who says other people can't do that? You're assuming Vegetto is the only who can, which is completely baseless. Also you said, and I quote,:

Vegetto is the most supreme being in DB. In the manga and even in the anime he displayed abilities no-one else could ever hope to have. Neither anyone from fillers nor GT nor movies.

I was merely pointing out a fault with your statement. GT and BoG both state characters from these series' are stronger. Also this is GT, Vegetto can still be A x B and Vegetto can still only be barely stronger than SSJ4 Goku. Honestly I shouldn't even use Goku's quote. How about an official quote:

ナゾ５　ぶっちゃけ…ビルスは強い！？
これだけはハｯキリ言っておこう。 ビルスは、間違いなく 「Z」 史上最強の存在だ！！！

Mystery 5: Frankly… “Birusu” is Strong?!
We’ll be blunt about this at least: “Birusu” is without a doubt the strongest being in the history of “Z”!!!

He has been surpassed. Deal with it.

[Kamiccolo9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9CaMeA2D3s
Gogeta can do this. All arguments are invalid.

[RandomGuy96]

He's been surpassed for a while. Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta (and arguably some other GT characters) can crush SS3 Vegetto's skull like a peanut.

Also, given the massive gap in between GT and Z, and the statements made about anime Gohan and Kid Buu, Vegetto almost has to be Goku x Vegeta for his comparison to Baby Saga Goku to make sense.

[Zephyr]

Right because a 6 Saiyan God ritual is much less effective than a 2 Saiyan fusion. SSJ God isn't even specific to Goku. I bet you wouldn't be complaining had Vegeta got the power up.

That's still the problem though. Fusion is creating a new being entirely. The internal logic of the series has long since established fusions to be super powerful, and for transformations to be super powerful, thus, a super powerful transformation of a super powerful fusion (ie: SSj3 Vegetto) would make sense to be ridiculously powerful.

SSjG is just pumping someone full of power, something we've seen not really be THAT drastically effective before, or at least not as mind-numbingly powerful as fusion. Granted, SSjG is different from those to a degree, but only in that those donating the ki are "pure hearted". The problem I have with putting SSjG leagues above a hypothetical SSj3 Vegetto is that given the way donating power works and the way fusion works, fusion is always the more powerful, and it makes no sense for "the Saiyans are pure hearted" to be able to make the donation method that much more potent.

And I can understand that they're "performing a ritual" by having the correct number of "pure hearted" Saiyans donating the ki, and it's them doing the ritual that makes the powerup that much more potent. At least, until we realize that they're not paying respect to some all powerful patron deity or anything. They "created" the form themselves. If they were attempting to appeal to some kind of "Saiya God" and it granted one for them the form due to looking onto their offer favorably, that would make sense. But there's no mention of a Saiyan God, or anything like that.

Maybe I'll just incorporate the idea that Saiyan God is granting the powerup as a result of them pleasing it into my fanon for this all to make sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Saiyans artificially created a God by using a 6 Saiyan ritual. It's kinda like how Kami is an artificial God.

[Zephyr]

That whole thing is screwy and not necessarily comparable.

[dbzfan7]

That whole thing is screwy and not necessarily comparable.

It really is. I consider all of these fusions and increases outside of transformations as rituals, it explains how they get massive surges of ki out of nowhere. I don't even fully understand it.

[Zephyr]

I was talking about the "god" thing. Being a "god" in DB is basically just a job. Oh wait, they also have "godly ki" now. Oh hey, normal, non-godly beings are capable of creating a transformation that itself has "godly ki" just by being good people, holding hands, and channeling their ki into one body. It doesn't make sense. I'm sure some sense could be made of it, but I can't be assed to do it myself right now.