What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[DBZAOTA482]

Whether the action the character takes is stupid or not, at least it's explained. The thing this comment does is it prevents a debate on whether the events before and after are nonsensical which is valuable as it doesn't take us out of universe. In-universe, we as the audience are thinking "Man, Piccolo, that wasn't a good idea at all." Rather than "I must have missed something in the story because I don't understand how these events unfolded." This is the key difference in what is causing the issues with Super. Small comments help to link the in-universe events, whether or not we agree on the reasoning, the reasoning is still being made by an in-universe character and not an out of universe audience.

Explaining why you did something reckless and stupid, doesn't negate the fact that is was still reckless and stupid.

Because he can't.

Why not?

He would fight them both at once which is not good and he didn't how strong the androids were.

[TheMikado]

Whether the action the character takes is stupid or not, at least it's explained. The thing this comment does is it prevents a debate on whether the events before and after are nonsensical which is valuable as it doesn't take us out of universe. In-universe, we as the audience are thinking "Man, Piccolo, that wasn't a good idea at all." Rather than "I must have missed something in the story because I don't understand how these events unfolded." This is the key difference in what is causing the issues with Super. Small comments help to link the in-universe events, whether or not we agree on the reasoning, the reasoning is still being made by an in-universe character and not an out of universe audience.

Explaining why you did something reckless and stupid, doesn't negate the fact that is was still reckless and stupid.

Because he can't.

Why not?

He would fight them both at once which is not good and he didn't how strong the androids were.

Agree with DBZOTA482 but I never argued that it wasn't stupid and reckless, I'm arguing that reasoning still remains within universe. Like I said your staying that's a stupid decision Piccolo instead of thinking about the scene not making sense overall. One scenario allows you to remain in universe, the other can force your thoughts out of universe.

[Lord Beerus]

Whether the action the character takes is stupid or not, at least it's explained. The thing this comment does is it prevents a debate on whether the events before and after are nonsensical which is valuable as it doesn't take us out of universe. In-universe, we as the audience are thinking "Man, Piccolo, that wasn't a good idea at all." Rather than "I must have missed something in the story because I don't understand how these events unfolded." This is the key difference in what is causing the issues with Super. Small comments help to link the in-universe events, whether or not we agree on the reasoning, the reasoning is still being made by an in-universe character and not an out of universe audience.

Explaining why you did something reckless and stupid, doesn't negate the fact that is was still reckless and stupid.

Because he can't.

Why not?

He would fight them both at once which is not good and he didn't how strong the androids were.

Piccolo said himself that he didn't care how strong the androids were and outright stated it take more that that attack from Gero to take him down. So he already had an idea of how strong the androids, well at least Dr Gero anyway. So he could easily went over there and killed Gero easily while Vegeta would have taken care of Android 19.

[TheMikado]

That's a lot of assumption from a single attack that "Would take more than that" when being faced with two potentially strong opponents simultaneously. Even if he could over power one what makes you think he can take on both simultaneously?

[Jackal puFF]

I'm still mad about Toriyama actually having someone called Black Goku.

[emi_b7]

[spoiler]

Explaining why you did something reckless and stupid, doesn't negate the fact that is was still reckless and stupid.


Why not?

He would fight them both at once which is not good and he didn't how strong the androids were.

[/spoiler]
Agree with DBZOTA482 but I never argued that it wasn't stupid and reckless, I'm arguing that reasoning still remains within universe. Like I said your staying that's a stupid decision Piccolo instead of thinking about the scene not making sense overall. One scenario allows you to remain in universe, the other can force your thoughts out of universe.

What you are saying is 100% true but an arc driven in large part by characters' stupid decisions (like Cell's) can be frustrating, even if those decisions are mostly in character. I don't hate the arc like some people seem to do but I get where they are coming from.
As for Super, yeah, I don't think you have to explain everything when you tell a story but they seem to be leaving a bit much stuff unexplained, I agree with you there.

I'm still mad about Toriyama actually having someone called Black Goku.

He is not called "Black Goku", he is called "Goku Black". Actually that's not even his name, that's how Trunks and co call him because Black introduced himself as Son Goku and, knowing that's not Goku, they went with the color of his clothes to differentiate the 2. I don't see the problem with the name, they call him simply "Black" 99% of the time anyway.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Piccolo said himself that he didn't care how strong the androids were and outright stated it take more that that attack from Gero to take him down. So he already had an idea of how strong the androids, well at least Dr Gero anyway. So he could easily went over there and killed Gero easily while Vegeta would have taken care of Android 19.

No, Piccolo only knew that Dr. Gero used a pathetic attack against him, and that he can't use ki blasts against him, nor should he let him touch him. Also, there is 2 of these guys, and one of them has absorbed a lot of energy from a weakened Super Saiyan. Piccolo didn't know exactly how strong Dr. Gero was, and Dr. Gero had barely displayed his abilities, and he also didn't know what else to expect from them, not to mention that these were still the same Artificial Humans that killed Super Saiyans in the future (or so they thought).

So no, he couldn't just jump in and save Goku. What a fucking idiot Piccolo would have been if he had done that.

[Jedi Knifed]

I think that Episode of Bardock and DragonBall Minus is when this franchise hit rock bottom.

Both stories are so poorly written that it's almost difficult to believe that they aren't fan-fiction. Both stories managed to utterly ruin Bardock by ignoring what made Bardock an interesting character in the first place. It has been said before but it's worth repeating. What made Bardock interesting is that he was just a typical saiyan who tried to do one heroic thing in the end and failed miserably. Turning Bardock into a loving husband and father and a time traveling original super saiyan added absolutely nothing good to the story and only created new plot holes and continuity problems.

But the way Toriyama introduced Goku's mother is even worse. What was the point of introducing her if we don't even see her being Goku's mother. We barely see Gine and kid Goku interact like mother and child. We didn't even see Gine hold kid Goku in her arms. Even though it would have been cliched and predictable a story about Goku's birth day would have been much better than what we got in DragonBall Minus.

[Noah]

^ I share this same feeling as well

[Cure Dragon 255]

I dont think its SUPER because the title says "Out of Modern DBZ" LOL! That said, even then I dont hate Super. Its harmless enough. Now Dragon Ball Z Resurrection F is a whoooole nother story!

[TheMikado]

^ I share this same feeling as well

Those two stories are so awful for the franchise that I literally do no consider them to even exist. I still don't see how people can hate the LSSJ but be ok with time traveling original SSJ.

[Sailor Haumea]

Bardock ISN'T the Original Super Saiyan.

Bardock was the ONLY Saiyan on Planet Plant. The Saiyans didn't arrive until a few centuries before Frieza blew the planet up. The Original Super Saiyan is a completely different character.

Dragon Ball Minus, however, is the single worst thing to ever happen to the franchise. The only good thing about it is Gine.

[HybridSaiyan]

THE DREADFUL ART AND ANIMATION OF SUPER. (90% OF THE TIME) IF THEY KEEP THIS UP IT'LL BE THE END OF ALL OF US, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

THE DREADFUL ART AND ANIMATION OF SUPER. (90% OF THE TIME) IF THEY KEEP THIS UP IT'LL BE THE END OF ALL OF US, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

We just have to wait it out and hope that Tadayoshi Yamamuro is replaced or retired soon. That will fix many of the problems.

[Alehandrew]

midichlorians....

but seriously, episode of Bardock and DB Minus were pretty low points.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Again, no they are not. THEY ARENT DBZ. AND DBZ ISNT THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE.

I'm sorry but this makes me mad. DBZ isnt even a thing in the manga and hasnt been a thing since Resurrection F. DB is the franchise.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Again, no they are not. THEY ARENT DBZ. AND DBZ ISNT THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE.

I'm sorry but this makes me mad. DBZ isnt even a thing in the manga and hasnt been a thing since Resurrection F. DB is the franchise.

Or we could just be calm and realize that many fans know the franchise as DBZ, since that's what most of us were introduced to.

[TheMikado]

Again, no they are not. THEY ARENT DBZ. AND DBZ ISNT THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE.

I'm sorry but this makes me mad. DBZ isnt even a thing in the manga and hasnt been a thing since Resurrection F. DB is the franchise.

Or we could just be calm and realize that many fans know the franchise as DBZ, since that's what most of us were introduced to.

Without "DBZ" the franchise would have likely faded away into obscurity.

[Bansho64]

Without "DBZ" the franchise would have likely faded away into obscurity.

What do you mean? Dragon Ball was thriving before the Z portion of the series.

[TheMikado]

Without "DBZ" the franchise would have likely faded away into obscurity.

What do you mean? Dragon Ball was thriving before the Z portion of the series.

Without the Z portion do you really think we'd be geting a new series and games 20 years later?