Gogeta or Vegetto

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:34 am

Potara = Goku + Vegeta + rivalry boost.

Fusion Dance = Goku (strength suppressed to equal Vegeta's) + Vegeta + time limit.

Seems pretty obvious that Vegetto would be stronger, IMO.

goku the krump dancer · Post by **goku the krump dancer** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:43 pm

Being rivals was said to not hurt the fusion not give it extra power. I believe goku and vegeta base on up to SSJ2 are equal.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:47 am

I never thought having to match your powers for the fusion dance would make the fusion weaker. That would mean the strength of the fusion is limited on how powered up the fuse-ees were when they fused, which seems odd to me, because Gotenks can still power up and transform and stuff after fusing.

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:34 am

goku the krump dancer wrote:Being rivals was said to not hurt the fusion not give it extra power. I believe goku and vegeta base on up to SSJ2 are equal.

The fact that the two were rivals was stated alongside the fact that they were two of the most powerful beings in the universe when Rou Dai Kaioushin-sama was explaining why Vegetto was so powerful to Kaiou-bito, so the context of the statement was suggesting that their rivalry was part of what made him so strong, and thus if they hadn't been rivals the fusion might not have been as powerful.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:21 am

Wikipedia wrote:It was originally released in Japan on March 4, 1995 between episodes 258 and 259...

Now you know the timeline of the Movie. Does it change anything? No. And if you don't believe me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Bal ... ion_Reborn.

I believe you, but info on wikipedia can be done even by some idiot who has seen 5 episodes of Dragon Ball..... This info is not reliable and it's officialy stated, that MOVIES ARE NOT CANON and they are not part of official manga and anime timeline except for movies 1 and 5 (by daizenshuu? ) and movie 9 is only one which is fitting perfectly, these are considered as ''anime canon'' but lot of things just doesn't make sense, excluding movie 9......
You can ask everyone here about it......

About Trunks sword, there was disussion some time ago and the sword given by Tapion to Trunks was maybe that sword Trunks had in Dragon Ball GT.
But TOEI is pretty lame if we are talking about writing and Dragon Ball is not only anime series which suffered because of fillers and movies.....

You can also browse Daizex site and look on Ask Daizenshuu Ex:
Q. Why weren't most of the DBZ movies written into the TV series/Manga continuity? - Stan Samuels

A. Probably just because they were made for fun, and that just seems to be the standard for movies based on pre-existing anime TV series. Look at Escaflowne; the movie had nothing to do with the TV series. Look at One Piece; it follows the DBZ style of movies, and just plops them whenever they're convenient. Remember that the DBZ movies were made for animation festivals, and not everyone attending the festival was going to be a DBZ fan; I'm sure they wanted to create stand-alone movies that anyone could just sit and watch without needing to know not only who all the characters were, but also where in some sort of other continuity it was taking place! - VegettoEX

We all frequent message boards and online forums (such as alt.fan.dragonball), and we all contribute as much as we can. Unfortunately, we don't KNOW of all the places people post questions, so it's impossible for us to reach everyone. However, if you're reading this, you at least know where WE are, so it's possible for you to ask us directly.

What we're going for here is sort of an "Answerman" or "Ask John" (from Anime News Network and Anime Nation, respectively). We'd like you to e-mail in whatever questions you may have, so long as it somehow relates to the world of DragonBall; be it the manga, the anime, merchandise.. whatever. We've been around for a few years, now, and we know the ropes... we like to think we know our stuff.

And we want to help. E-mail your questions to VegettoEX@aol.com with the subject "Ask VegettoEX." We'll try to update this section every weekend with at least one question straight from the fans. Thanks!

[ Last Updated: Sunday, 16 May 2004 ]
[ Past "Ask VegettoEX" Archives ]

Q. Do you think that Funimation is going to keep "DAN DAN Kokoro Hikarete 'ku" for episode 64 Of Dragon Ball GT or do you think they'll keep the Grand Tour (c)rap? - John Nelson

A. Well, the DVD came out on Tuesday, so go check for yourself. OK, fine... I'll answer ^^;;. What else did anyone expect? Of course there's no Japanese music there; I mean, as much as the English score doesn't fit, it would fit even less to suddenly have some J-Pop start in with all the subdued guitar stuff. All of the scenes in the "flashback" sequence have their appropriate lines being spoken by the characters, rather than it being a musical montage. It's really... well, it's bad. It doesn't give any kind of sense of "closure" or "hope," but... whatever. You've got a Japanese track on the DVD; watch it. That's what it's there for! - VegettoEX

Q. Hey, I personally love the site that you have. It gives in depth info on the original DBZ CDs, although I have no clue where to get them! If you could just perhaps suggest some sites that you may know, or some place to get them?? I really was looking for "Ongakuskhû - Volume 2" (which is the DBZ movie 8 OST) and "Dragonball Z - The Best Selections" (The original, the copy with new songs.) - Joshua Lange

A. People seem to think that because they want and love them so much, these CDs are going to miraculously come back into print or appear on store shelves. ^^; I'm sorry folks... these CDs have been out of print for a long time, usually, and aren't going to be showing up again any time soon. You've going to have to keep watching eBay and other auction sites if you really want these CDs.... it's how I got them. - VegettoEX

Q. Do you ever remember hearing about this huge fan-made video game project, I think it was called Dragonball REMIX or something. It was a C++ based game, I think, and there were tons of people working on sprites, scripts and voices and there was going to be like 3 episodes. I remember it was close to the time Bid for Power was really getting going before they got shut down, at least the DBZ part. Anyway, any info on this project? It had looked really promising and I was looking forward to it for a long time and it never panned out I guess... - Stephen Hohmann

A. I don't have so much as a clue as to what you're talking about, so I'm absolutely no help. I never really followed any outside projects. - VegettoEX

Q. I've just started looking at your site, and it seems that you know your DBZ. I have a question, the issue with Trunks and his sword, seems to be entirely irrelvant due to the movies do not fall into the story line, or aren't suppose to. How could Trunks possibly obtain this sword through the different timelines? - ussjbroly

A. The sword that Chibi Trunks gets is simply a sword (which also appears in GT, for no apparent reason)... not the sword. It's absolutely impossible for it to be the same sword that Future Trunks owns (well, not necessarily impossible, but beyond all amounts of any likelihood). Movie 13 is just a way to show Chibi Trunks get a sword... not how Future Trunks gets the sword. - VegettoEX

Q. I have always wondered which of the fusions involving Goku and Vegeta was stronger... Gogeta or Vegetto? - Josh Lange

A. There's little actual evidence to put one over the other in terms of strength. The various Kaiôshin do mention that Vegetto's strength could perhaps be attributed to the intense rivalry between Goku and Vegeta, but they do not specifically mention if the same results would have occurred with Gogeta.

With the dance fusion, one character must lower their fighting spirit/power to match the other before the fusion. The Potara Earrings do not require such a thing. We can only assume from this that the Potara fusion would result in a stronger character by not holding back one half of its strength, even by a little bit. - VegettoEX

So now is the answer for your question if you consider Gogeta canon, it's easy to read in this section and find answer to question you need to explain, so I think all this thread was pointless.....

+ about movie canonicity:
Q. Do ANY of the movies have a time where they fit perfectly into the timeline? Dead Zone tried, but all the problems about Krillin and Bulma knowing Gohan
come up. Could any fit during the numerous "X Years of Training" segments? - Knux Five

A. The only movie that can perfectly fit into the canon storyline without any continuity problems is movie nine. This would take place after the Cell Games, and after Trunks returns to his own timeline to defeat # 17, # 18, and Cell. If Trunks were to defeat them, then come to our timeline to hang out for a bit and say that he's saved his own world, it's perfectly possible (remember that he was about to use the time machine when Cell showed up). There's nothing else going on during this time that could potentially conflict with the events. It doesn't seem all THAT long after the Cell Games, and everyone looks like they have their appropriate character designs. - VegettoEX

PS: Man, please don't ever search for info on wikipedia, when you have two sites where you can find everything you want, daizex.com and kanzentai.com

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:44 am

Darkprince410 wrote:Rou Dai Kaioushin-sama

On a complete side note, we had a thread earlier where Herms and/or Hujio said that there was no evidence that Elder Kaioshin was ever the Dai Kaioshin, and that we didn't know where the term 'Rou Dai' came from. I noticed when watching the Buu saga recently that, when being polite, Kibitoshin and the others do seem to refer to him as Dai Kaioshin a few times. Is it just that he took on this role after being released?

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:49 am

I thought that dai is when I'm talking to someone older and higher ranked then me??

I saw it some time ago in english/japanese online vocabulary, but I don't trust to these things much

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:49 am

I'd think movie 9 happened before Trunks left at the end of the Cell saga, seeing as he still has his Cell games hair and everyone's together.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:54 am

Amigo Ten wrote:I'd think movie 9 happened before Trunks left at the end of the Cell saga, seeing as he still has his Cell games hair and everyone's together.

It's said in the movie that he returned from Future to compete at Tournament after he defeated Future Androids and Cell.........

That's stated in original dub

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:07 am

MCDaveG wrote:
Amigo Ten wrote:I'd think movie 9 happened before Trunks left at the end of the Cell saga, seeing as he still has his Cell games hair and everyone's together.
It's said in the movie that he returned from Future to compete at Tournament after he defeated Future Androids and Cell.........

That's stated in original dub

Oh.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:07 am

MCDaveG wrote:I thought that dai is when I'm talking to someone older and higher ranked then me??

I saw it some time ago in english/japanese online vocabulary, but I don't trust to these things much

Dai just means 'great', basically. Dai Kaioshin is the Kaioshin who leads the 4 other Kaioshin. Likewise, there's a Dai Kaio who leads the 4 Kaio. I don't think it's ever used specifically to address someone who outranks you...but you could call your elder "Great Something-or-other" if you wanted I guess.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:14 am

why has a topic about Vegetto vs Gogeta reached 4 pages?

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:18 am

Bussani wrote:
MCDaveG wrote:I thought that dai is when I'm talking to someone older and higher ranked then me??

I saw it some time ago in english/japanese online vocabulary, but I don't trust to these things much
Dai just means 'great', basically. Dai Kaioshin is the Kaioshin who leads the 4 other Kaioshin. Likewise, there's a Dai Kaio who leads the 4 Kaio. I don't think it's ever used specifically to address someone who outranks you...but you could call your elder "Great Something-or-other" if you wanted I guess.

Thank you very much

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:40 am

MCDaveG wrote:
Bussani wrote:
MCDaveG wrote:I thought that dai is when I'm talking to someone older and higher ranked then me??

I saw it some time ago in english/japanese online vocabulary, but I don't trust to these things much
Dai just means 'great', basically. Dai Kaioshin is the Kaioshin who leads the 4 other Kaioshin. Likewise, there's a Dai Kaio who leads the 4 Kaio. I don't think it's ever used specifically to address someone who outranks you...but you could call your elder "Great Something-or-other" if you wanted I guess.
Thank you very much

Although, this may explain how Dai Kaio and Dai Kaioshin are selected. We know the "Fruit lotteries" determine new Kaio and Kaioshin, but not the Dai of each. It could very well be nothing but seniority. In other words, Dai Kaioshin dies, so the eldest of the North/South/East/West Kaioshin takes his position. Golden Fruit Lottery replaces the now vacant Kaioshin position. The reason East Kaioshin never became the next Dai Kaioshin would be because no new Kaioshin was born to acknowledge him as his senior.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:23 pm

Speaking of the Kaioshins, who is stronger? Dai Kaioshin or Cell? (The Dai Kaioshin I am refering to is that chubby kai that was absorbed by Majin Buu, as he was more powerful than all the other supream kais)

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:27 pm

I always assumed the old Kaioshin in the sword was a previous East Kaioshin, and I'm not sure why.

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:27 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:Speaking of the Kaioshins, who is stronger? Dai Kaioshin or Cell? (The Dai Kaioshin I am refering to is that chubby kai that was absorbed by Majin Buu, as he was more powerful than all the other supream kais)

He wasn't more powerful than the South Kaioushin-sama though, as it was stated (or at least strongly implied given the dialogue used to describe him) that the South was the strongest of the Kaioushin-sama

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:33 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:Speaking of the Kaioshins, who is stronger? Dai Kaioshin or Cell? (The Dai Kaioshin I am refering to is that chubby kai that was absorbed by Majin Buu, as he was more powerful than all the other supream kais)

There's not much to go on. I think we talked about it earlier, or maybe it was in another thread. If he was as strong as Cell, he would be around the same strength as Gohan, too. I guess Gohan was always superior to Cell, but he didn't even seem to use SSJ2 to pull the sword out. If all that's required is raw strength, then shouldn't a Kaioshin with Cell's strength be able to pull it out?

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:09 pm

That's just if it is raw strength that is required to remove the sword, as it could possibly be a situation where Gohan was pre-ordained to remove the sword or something along those lines. Though there's also the fact that it's never expressly stated that South even tried removing it, as it was only said that countless Kaioushin-sama had tried, not that all of them had.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:18 pm

Maybe besides raw power, a pure heart was also needed to remove the sword, much like kintoun.

And no, being a kaioshin doesn`t mean automatically the possession of a pure heart. We know this because the Rou Kaioshin is just like Roshi, so he certainly doesn`t have a pure heart.

Who knows about South kaioshin?