Dragonbox Volume 2

[Innagadadavida]

Given how this all happened, I pretty much consider FUNi wholly absolved. They did us wrong...before doing us very, very right. More right than any other localization company around the world has ever done for their fans.

I agree 100%. I'm still surprised to see an astounding amount of misplaced animosity. FUNimation fuckin' banked off of the orange bricks apparently. They had very little to gain by releasing the Dragon Boxes. And once they did. People acted like they were entitled to it. I think Gaffer Tape was the one who had the review where he began by saying "Well, they finally did something right."

And anyone who is mad about buying the orange bricks, you knew the faults of the product and you bought it anyway. I bought them and now I'm stuck with a bunch useless DVDs. It sucks but its not like FUNimation forced anyone to buy it.

Either way, the market was already over saturated by the time the orange bricks came out. While I agree that FUNimation has not done a good job publicly acknowledging or explaining the differences, I don't think it would help that much in the first place. The Dragon Boxes are apparently doing just fine. So I don't think there's much to worry about. They've already put out four, so they have confidence in the product. They've already licensed the whole series, they'd be stupid to cancel this release.





I guess, I'm keeping the orange bricks. They have the dub score which I kind of like, and they were my first exposure to the Z series. Plus, I stand by my stance that they really don't look that bad. Not as bad as an average Daizexer would have you believe.

[Gaffer Tape]

*snip*

Yep, that was my review. Don't really see how that implies a sense of entitlement. I never felt entitled to the Dragon Boxes. I never in a million years thought we'd get them. Saying they "finally got something right," has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with the implication that a lot of what they did before that was "wrong," an opinion I still stand by. Bilingual DVDs. That was right. Keeping the original score in DB. That was right. Step into the Grand Tour. Wrong. Cancelling the Ultimate Uncut. Wrong. The orange bricks. Oh, good God, how terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly WRONG! And just like I said in my last post with the word "poor," I don't necessarily mean from a financial standpoint.

I'm sorry if you feel that I should immediately forgive FUNimation for every single bad thing they've done. I've given credit where credit is due. I think they've made some great decisions over the past couple of years. A lot of the "wrongs" I just listed are no longer relevant. Step into the Grand Tour. Totally irrelevant now. But the plethora of lies about the orange bricks are still relevant to the marketing of the Dragon Boxes. I disagree with Tony. I don't see FUNimation admitting anything was wrong with them. They're doing their best to not send a clear message one way or the other because whichever way they would, they'd end up stepping on their own toes. Have they ever said they were wrong to crop the series? Have they ever said they flat out lied in their trailers? Well, obviously not because that would be bad PR. However, it would also be treating their customers with respect.

As for those people who are mad about being suckered into buying the orange bricks, I placed a little bit of blame on them in my review as well. It doesn't change the fact that everyone was lied to. The orange brick ads claimed that 16:9 was the proper way to watch the series and would give more picture, not take it away. That was a lie. They claimed the colors would be subdued and truer to the original presentation. Huge lie. Sure people should do indpendent research, but the fact is that those releases were contrary to everything FUNimation said. And it isn't just "Daizexers" who think they look bad. It's everyone who has any kind of knowledge or background of film.

As I said, I think FUNimation's in a sticky situation now, a situation they didn't see coming, and now have a hard time getting out of. But considering how well everything's going for them, I still have a hard time sympathizing. Whatever the outcome, they're not gonna lose. They have Kai. But if their inability to admit their mistakes with the orange bricks costs them Dragon Box sales (which I admit there's no concrete way to tell), which, down the line, makes them think it's not in their best interests to release DBoxes for the other two series, then, once again, we will be the ones who lose.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Gaffer Tape]

Well, I do just want to make it clear that, right now, it's still too soon to tell what will come to pass, so what I said is speculation. I just hope the OP of this thread isn't a sign of things to come.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Soul]

You know though, will they even make that much off of DBoxes for the original Dragon Ball and GT?
They "tried" covering their butts by not cropping those two series and trying to have "Proper" remaster on them.
The only people I see buying them is, most the people on this board, the people who know the Dragon Box footage is superior to whatever FUNimation says they've "Remastered" and maybe people who are willing to double-dip.

I'd like to see a Dragon Box release for the Original Dragon Ball, but I just.. don't see it happening.
I'll still try and hold out and wait a while though.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Gaffer Tape]

You think they will end the Dragon Box series and then quit? (If this happens of course), and then never make the other box sets? That doesn't seem right. What would make them stop production..? You or someone else must have explained this because I forgot >.>

It is far too early to tell, but it's always been reasoned that a release for DB or GT depends on the success of the Z Boxes. There's also the theory that they only ever plan to do Z because Z is the cash cow property, and they might never see niche releases of the other two series as having enough mainstream appeal to warrant releasing in the first place. And then there are those who think that, with the improvements made in the DB and GT season sets over the Z sets, there really is no need for DBoxes for the other two series, or at least that FUNimation will think so.

Those are the popular fan theories. FUNimation has given us little information to go on, other than to give the possibly hopeful statement that the Z boxes are doing about as well as they expected, and that they don't have plans to discontinue the Z releases.

[TonyTheTiger]

Have they ever said they were wrong to crop the series? Have they ever said they flat out lied in their trailers? Well, obviously not because that would be bad PR. However, it would also be treating their customers with respect.

It's completely unrealistic to expect FUNi, or any company for that matter, to say straight up they were wrong when there's a financial need to sell through your stock. Hell, I wouldn't do that. But they did imply it as best as can be expected. They did advertise the Dragon Boxes as being "in 4:3" like it was a selling point. The only reason they would pull that is if it was an implication that the widescreen cropping was not "how it was meant to be seen." You have to read between the lines, of course, but logic implies that if they were standing behind the widescreen cropping they would not have put a big "4:3" in original Dragon Box promo.

It's like the Xbox 360. Microsoft didn't come out and say they were wrong with the RROD, either. But the extended warranty and free repairs is essentially the admission.

The point is that it's time to move on. How long are you going to make FUNi bear that cross when at this point they're not fucking anybody over anymore? It's childish to hold a grudge when we're getting the goddamn Dragon Boxes at a mere fraction of what the Japanese paid. Looking at other threads, the Germans are apparently still getting dub only box sets with shitty multi-generational transfers. So it's time to count our blessings and let bygones be bygones. If not now then when?

As for future Dragon Boxes for the other two series, the current Z set is a random bonus. It was never, ever on the radar. And had the orange bricks been decent we might not have gotten the Dragon Boxes at all. So it's not like the orange bricks will be the reason we don't get Dragon Ball or GT. If we don't get them then it's because Toei wouldn't play ball. But considering FUNi's business strategy is heavily focused on having a Dragon Ball related product available at all times and options are starting to run thin, I'd bet they'd push for those other series anyway. Having a "niche" product on the shelf is better than nothing.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's like the Xbox 360. Microsoft didn't come out and say they were wrong with the RROD, either. But the extended warranty and free repairs is essentially the admission.

That's my point right there. In 2002, when there were problems with the Back to the Future DVDs, Universal owned up to it and replaced the broken product with a new, reframed version for free. Customers didn't even have to pay to ship their old discs in. As you just said, Microsoft acknolwedges their mistake by offering free repairs. I really don't see how bringing out a new release TO SELL is at all comparable. That's not them being altruistic. That's them looking to make a little more money. Don't think I'm not thrilled to have Dragon Boxes. I am. I love them, and I can't heap enough praise on FUNimation for releasing them and for doing so at a wonderfully affordable price. Kudos to them. I have made two videos heaping praise on FUNimation and encouraging people to buy their products because of this. But let's be realistic. They're not doing it for the warm fuzzies. If it wasn't helping their bottom line in some way, they wouldn't be doing it. And before I'm accused of being unrealistic, do I honestly think FUNimation has the kind of money to sponsor recalls like major studios like Universal? No. Do I think that FUNimation was purposely holding back on the DBoxes because they first wanted to make a release so terrible that it made people want to double dip? No. But I certainly don't equate it as renumeration for the orange bricks. They've earned some points back in my book for showing they can do a quality release when they try, but that doesn't change the fact that they happily duped so many people over right before that.

As for their "cross to bear," I don't consider myself unreasonable at all. As I said in my last post, I am not holding their past mistakes over their heads. Things that are no longer relevant, that have long been superceded by genuine attempts at doing better, that's great. That really is great. I mean that. But since the orange bricks have had an impact on how the Dragon Boxes have been and are currently marketed, I feel they are still fair game.

[TonyTheTiger]

Don't think that Microsoft addressing the RROD or Universal addressing Back to the Future isn't in their best interests financially. Yes, they took a hit to their bottom line but they did it in order to cut off the bad press which would hurt them in the long run. If Microsoft didn't address the RROD then the subsequent console release would probably not be as well received. So it's essentially taking a hit now to avoid taking a worse one later on. I'm not discounting there being some goodwill there but it's often tempered by the fact that no company wants a bad reputation. Even Shout! Factory, not exactly a super large DVD publisher, had a replacement program for Captain N since one of the discs had an authoring problem.

The thing with FUNi is that there wasn't anything technically wrong with the orange bricks. If they had not functioned properly for one reason or another the company would have replaced them. The orange bricks weren't a defect. They were just badly designed in the first place. That's probably an important difference here. They probably honestly thought they were doing right with the orange bricks. Yes, they used a lot of smoke and mirrors to convince the public that it was for the best but they wouldn't have done it in the first place if they didn't think it was worth it. Why would they have gone through the trouble of messing with the video if they didn't think it would have been a salable product? So in a way they do probably still stand behind them as a choice they made when they made it. Obviously a certain vocal minority didn't respond well so we got better blue and green bricks. FUNi learned a hard lesson because they lost potential customers.

The Dragon Boxes were an opportunity to capture that last part of the market that refused to buy the orange bricks. A part of the market that would have bought the orange bricks if they were more like the blue and green bricks. So, as crazy as this is to say, maybe it really is a good thing FUNi screwed up. If the orange bricks were even just a cut and paste job from the singles I probably would have bought them. So even if the orange bricks affect how the Dragon Boxes are advertised, had the orange bricks not been what they are there may not be any Dragon Boxes to advertise period. I call that lucky. Dumb luck, maybe, but luck nonetheless.

[GizmoKSX]

The orange brick ads claimed that 16:9 was the proper way to watch the series and would give more picture, not take it away. That was a lie. They claimed the colors would be subdued and truer to the original presentation. Huge lie.

This could be a lingering problem in trying to market the Dragon Boxes to consumers who remember the orange brick trailers and making-of footage. The orange brick marketing lauded the technical details of its release, and made a big deal of "Widescreen good, film grain bad!" (And fake film grain at that.) Now we've got the Dragon Boxes in old-fashioned 4:3 ratio and film grain intact. The Dragon Box marketing doesn't do much to educate consumers about why it's a superior release, and anyone "educated" by the orange brick marketing is going to be even more confused.

[Gaffer Tape]

Don't think that Microsoft addressing the RROD or Universal addressing Back to the Future isn't in their best interests financially. Yes, they took a hit to their bottom line but they did it in order to cut off the bad press which would hurt them in the long run.

Well, yes, of course they did it to protect their reputations. I was just pointing those out because I still don't see how a new product for consumers to buy is comparable to a free service.

The thing with FUNi is that there wasn't anything technically wrong with the orange bricks. If they had not functioned properly for one reason or another the company would have replaced them. The orange bricks weren't a defect. They were just badly designed in the first place. That's probably an important difference here. They probably honestly thought they were doing right with the orange bricks. Yes, they used a lot of smoke and mirrors to convince the public that it was for the best but they wouldn't have done it in the first place if they didn't think it was worth it. Why would they have gone through the trouble of messing with the video if they didn't think it would have been a salable product? So in a way they do probably still stand behind them as a choice they made when they made it.

I certainly hope not. It's more likely they'd be apt to hide under the all-inclusive "deliberate creative decisions" label, like what LucasFilm has been referring to the reversed audio channels, poorly mixed sound, and blue-tinted picture of the Star Wars trilogy "special edition" DVDs for the past six years. I'm sure they did think it would be a product they could sell. But I'm fully convinced they were trying to capitalize on the buzzwords of "digitally remastered" and "widescreen." And I would say that "smoke and mirrors" is a bit of an understatement. Sure, there was some "fudging" of the truth (the widescreen comparison shots are a good example, positioned and sized in such a way as to give the optical illusion that you're getting more picture). There was also some flat-out lying, like the trailers that added fake grain to comparison shots. To me, that reeks of them not believing in their own product right then and there.

So, as crazy as this is to say, maybe it really is a good thing FUNi screwed up. If the orange bricks were even just a cut and paste job from the singles I probably would have bought them.

Nope. That doesn't sound crazy at all. In fact, I said this exact same thing, almost word for word, in my second Dragon Box review. That said, though, just because some good might have inadvertantly come from it, doesn't immediately absolve them of their decisions.

This could be a lingering problem in trying to market the Dragon Boxes to consumers who remember the orange brick trailers and making-of footage. The orange brick marketing lauded the technical details of its release, and made a big deal of "Widescreen good, film grain bad!" (And fake film grain at that.) Now we've got the Dragon Boxes in old-fashioned 4:3 ratio and film grain intact. The Dragon Box marketing doesn't do much to educate consumers about why it's a superior release, and anyone "educated" by the orange brick marketing is going to be even more confused.

Exactly. It should have been the orange bricks that got the meme-filled ads and the DBoxes the technical jargon marketing. But FUNimation already shot their wad on that approach by lying their asses off, so they simply couldn't go that route again without making them look like idiots. The blurb on the sheet on the back of the boxes describe the DBoxes best, but even that is vague and confusing to people who don't know about them because FUNimation can't be specific about it without putting down their previous product and admitting their deception. "Frame-by-frame remastering." Wait. Didn't the "remastered" sets have that? And it's in 4:3? Didn't the remastered sets say that 16:9 was better? And it only has two audio tracks when the "remastered" sets had three? I don't get it! What's better about this? Why does it cost more? Why should I buy this? Oooooooh, Vegeta did say it was "over 9,000" though...

[MajinVejitaXV]

Just as a random observation, the "Dragon Box 1" release is still out there, so I honestly don't think the DragonBoxes are limited items. They may have simply exhausted stock and need to go back and replicate more stock. I wouldn't get all worried just yet.

[Metalwario64]

Well, Rightstuf! is sold out again, but you can still access it's listing this time, quantity is listed at "0", and the "Purchase" button is replaced with "SOLD OUT!", but the "availability" is weirdly listed as "In Stock and Available". Amazon still isn't selling them either.

I'm not the most avid Rightstuf! buyer, so I've never seen this before. I've only ever seen listings where if they were sold out, they'd say "More Arriving Soon!", and you'd still have the option to buy them...

[Soul]

Also! DBox 3 & 4 are now at 59.98 with no discounts.

[Metalwario64]

Also! DBox 3 & 4 are now at 59.98 with no discounts.

That's the retail price. Both of them are still discounted at $35.99.

[Soul]

Hm.
There wasn't a discount on it earlier.
I thought retail was 79.98?

[Metalwario64]

That was their initial retail price, but FUNimation lowered them a while back.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

*snip*

Yep, that was my review. Don't really see how that implies a sense of entitlement. I never felt entitled to the Dragon Boxes. I never in a million years thought we'd get them. Saying they "finally got something right," has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with the implication that a lot of what they did before that was "wrong," an opinion I still stand by. Bilingual DVDs. That was right. Keeping the original score in DB. That was right. Step into the Grand Tour. Wrong. Cancelling the Ultimate Uncut. Wrong. The orange bricks. Oh, good God, how terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly WRONG! And just like I said in my last post with the word "poor," I don't necessarily mean from a financial standpoint.

I'm sorry if you feel that I should immediately forgive FUNimation for every single bad thing they've done. I've given credit where credit is due. I think they've made some great decisions over the past couple of years. A lot of the "wrongs" I just listed are no longer relevant. Step into the Grand Tour. Totally irrelevant now. But the plethora of lies about the orange bricks are still relevant to the marketing of the Dragon Boxes. I disagree with Tony. I don't see FUNimation admitting anything was wrong with them. They're doing their best to not send a clear message one way or the other because whichever way they would, they'd end up stepping on their own toes. Have they ever said they were wrong to crop the series? Have they ever said they flat out lied in their trailers? Well, obviously not because that would be bad PR. However, it would also be treating their customers with respect.

As for those people who are mad about being suckered into buying the orange bricks, I placed a little bit of blame on them in my review as well. It doesn't change the fact that everyone was lied to. The orange brick ads claimed that 16:9 was the proper way to watch the series and would give more picture, not take it away. That was a lie. They claimed the colors would be subdued and truer to the original presentation. Huge lie. Sure people should do indpendent research, but the fact is that those releases were contrary to everything FUNimation said. And it isn't just "Daizexers" who think they look bad. It's everyone who has any kind of knowledge or background of film.

As I said, I think FUNimation's in a sticky situation now, a situation they didn't see coming, and now have a hard time getting out of. But considering how well everything's going for them, I still have a hard time sympathizing. Whatever the outcome, they're not gonna lose. They have Kai. But if their inability to admit their mistakes with the orange bricks costs them Dragon Box sales (which I admit there's no concrete way to tell), which, down the line, makes them think it's not in their best interests to release DBoxes for the other two series, then, once again, we will be the ones who lose.

That was the best post I've seen in a while, holy crap! Right on the money man, but I must say, It's possible they will cancel the Dragon Boxes. If they do I'm going to be sorely pissed off. Other websites are already out of stock on them, so If they cancel all of it, then the only true way to watch it will be the Japanese Dragon Box! Not all of us have that kind of money... FUNimation ... *Sigh* It's bad enough they didn't include the T.V specials, but maybe that was just a unique special that came with the JP box sets.

I wouldn't think so, FUNimation said all the video(minus the Japanese commercials) would be on there, they did license the 2 boxes.
I'm very sure we'll see the 2 specials on the last box or the movie box.