Which dialogue changes do you think hurt the dub the most?

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, I admit that's something that's been an annoyance of mine too, when people refer to the Japanese version as the Japanese dub. I guess it's not technically incorrect, but I always feel that the very nature of the word "dub" implies a replacement of dialogue to some degree.

[Adamant]

While you can talk about the Japanese original as "the Japanese dub" (since yes, it does fall under what a dub is, the addition of voices to video that did not previously have these voices), you can't talk about "dialogue changes" in it. It's the original dialogue. Nothing is changed, beyond some very very minor differences from the manga script.

[Herms]

I guess it's not technically incorrect, but I always feel that the very nature of the word "dub" implies a replacement of dialogue to some degree.

Yeah, it's not technically inaccurate, but it is contrary to the way people generally talk about these things. Technically the original version of The Simpsons constitutes an English dub of the series, but you never hear people refer to it as such (or at least I don't, anyway). In my experience people only talk about the "Japanese dub" of DB or other anime as a linguistic ploy to put the original version of the show and its English adaptations on the same level: "Who cares if the English dub is different than the Japanese dub? One dub's as good as another."

[Gaffer Tape]

Exactly. That's why its use bugs me. Because I've only ever seen it used in that way. And before anyone infers that I say that because I'm annoyed by any wording that would dare put the English version on par with the Japanese version, that's not exactly why. It's just that it purposely muddies the issue. Rather than talking about a work and its derivative adaptation, you're now seemingly referring to two separate works.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

Even as a fan of the English version, I can admit that there were certain lines that could've otherwised been left out. With that said, though, I'm not gonna over-analyze that detail surrounding my version. To let that cloud my viewing of the show is simply being too nitpicky.

Just the other day, I decided to watch the sub version of some Buu episodes, and pretty much all my brothers asked, "Could you please put it in English, Elliot?" to which I then proceeded to explain how both versions are different (jokes and all), but they ended up really not caring.

[SylentEcho]

Even as a fan of the English version, I can admit that there were certain lines that could've otherwised been left out. With that said, though, I'm not gonna over-analyze that detail surrounding my version. To let that cloud my viewing of the show is simply being too nitpicky.

Just the other day, I decided to watch the sub version of some Buu episodes, and pretty much all my brothers asked, "Could you please put it in English, Elliot?" to which I then proceeded to explain how both versions are different (jokes and all), but they ended up really not caring.

Yeah, one needs to watch Anime in Japanese by oneself to get used to it. All of my friends watch Anime in Japanese. I've observed that kids watch Anime in English and not slightly older people like us. I could be wrong though.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The jokes; if you cut those out I can only count a handful of major gaffes, such as Goku's "mercy" on Vegeta

Eh, I actually thought Goku sparing Vegeta was one of the greatest Woolseyisms (that is, changes for the better) of the dub. Besides the sheer stupidity of letting Vegeta live just so he could fight him again, it never made any sense in regards to Goku's character. I mean, he says that he let Piccolo and Vegeta go because he wanted to fight them again because fighting was just that awesome and amazing right? They were worthy rivals that he didn't want to lose, right?

Well then, how do you explain Goku try to spare Raditz, Burter, Jeice, and Ginyu as well? The Ginyu Force weren't anywhere CLOSE to being the worthy rivals that Piccolo and Vegeta were at the time Goku spared them, and they also tried to do basically the exact same thing that those guys tried to do, so logically, Goku had absolutely nothing to gain from sparing them, right? And as for Raditz, Goku was totally willing to have Piccolo kill him until Raditz begged Goku for mercy, promising to change his ways and everything. And yet, Goku spares all of these guys as well.

All I can assume based on that is that even if Vegeta hadn't been a worthy rival, Goku would've tried to spare him anyways, just as he did with so many others who weren't even close to him in power. It always irritated me how his motives for sparing his opponents are never consistent.

So, I'm calling Woolseyism on that change. I support it. I am 100% behind it, if not for any of the reasons above, than for the fact that otherwise, Kuririn, who is otherwise a brave and intelligent warrior, is a complete and utter lapdog to the whims of Goku who's willing to bend to Goku's desires because "he wants to fight him again, herp derp!!".

I 100% agree with you.

I can't stand Goku letting Vegeta go because he wanted to fight him again. I feel more comfortable with the mercy reason.

Holy cow, never thought I'd hear this. Particularly after the route the Goku Analysis thread went. It certainly wouldn't be something I'd put past him or feel make or break on myself, and it is certainly true that he spared the Ginyus because they were neutralized and he saw that as enough. You could argue that he just saw the Ginyu Force as immediate obstacles rather than potential rivals, being on a foreign planet and from parts unknown, but Vegeta already fit half that description.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

How goku induces Vegeta to use the potara. I felt like "WTF?" when I saw the scene first.

That whole "We've lost our old race" imo was even better than the original speech.

[Herms]

Goku spared Ginyu and co. precisely because they were so much weaker than him and he "didn't want any pointless fights". And in Recoom and the others' case, after he beat them they were completely immobilized and as he tells Vegeta he didn't see any need to finish off a helpless foe. But Vegeta was far stronger than Goku at the time and actively escaping, so Goku sparing him was by his own admission a selfish act rather than charity. Meanwhile Raditz was actually begging Goku to spare him and Goku seems to let go of Raditz's tail on impulse, without thinking. It's not really that odd for Goku to do the same sort of thing several times but for different reasons under different circumstances.

[Fionordequester]

Goku spared Ginyu and co. precisely because they were so much weaker than him and he "didn't want any pointless fights". And in Recoom and the others' case, after he beat them they were completely immobilized and as he tells Vegeta he didn't see any need to finish off a helpless foe.

Mmmhmmm....

But Vegeta was far stronger than Goku at the time and actively escaping, so Goku sparing him was by his own admission a selfish act rather than charity.

In the Japanese version, yes. But then how do you explain Krillen? You expect me to believe that the very same guy who has risked his life against impossible odds countless times would so willingly let someone as deadly as Vegeta go just because Goku wants to fight him again? Besides that, if Goku had really let Vegeta go for totally selfish reasons, then how was he still able to ride the Nimbus after getting out of the hospital? You can't even use the "naive and stupid" excuse, because in the Japanese version, Goku supposedly knew full well that his intentions weren't pure.

And so, I still concur that Dub Goku makes more sense as far as consistency in character is concerned.

Meanwhile Raditz was actually begging Goku to spare him and Goku seems to let go of Raditz's tail on impulse, without thinking.

That was after thinking it over though. Goku tried to shut out Radit'z pleas before letting him go, but Raditz was able to sway him. It wasn't just impulse.

It's not really that odd for Goku to do the same sort of thing several times but for different reasons under different circumstances.

It is however, odd that Goku still has Nimbus privelages after Vegeta.

[Puto]

But Vegeta was far stronger than Goku at the time and actively escaping, so Goku sparing him was by his own admission a selfish act rather than charity.

In the Japanese version, yes. But then how do you explain Kuririn? You expect me to believe that the very same guy who has risked his life against impossible odds countless times would so willingly let someone as deadly as Vegeta go just because Goku wants to fight him again? Besides that, if Goku had really let Vegeta go for totally selfish reasons, then how was he still able to ride the Nimbus after getting out of the hospital? You can't even use the "naive and stupid" excuse, because in the Japanese version, Goku supposedly knew full well that his intentions weren't pure.

Doing one selfish action doesn't automatically render you uncapable of riding the Kinto'un. Or at least I don't think so.

And Krillin (not "Krillen", if you want to use the dub spellings, then please, at least do it right) let Vegeta go because Gokū begged him to do so. He wasn't going to listen to him at first, but he begged him to do it, and Kuririn eventually gave in because, as he said, "Okay. You saved us, so I guess you earned the right."

[Fionordequester]

Doing one selfish action doesn't automatically render you uncapable of riding the Kinto'un. Or at least I don't think so.

Pfft, tell that to Adam and Eve. But seriously, the only reason selfish actions are done is because there was something wrong with the person to begin with, something about his thinking that was impure, therefore, his heart wasn't totally pure. Having a pure heart means you're literally incapable of doing wrong, or at least that's what it means to me. So, either Goku didn't spare Vegeta entirely out of selfishness, or he's not pure hearted. I don't know about you, but I'm not having it both ways.

And Krillin (not "Kuririn", if you want to use the dub spellings, then please, at least do it right) let Vegeta go because Gokū begged him to do so. He wasn't going to listen to him at first, but he begged him to do it, and Kuririn eventually gave in because, as he said, "Okay. You saved us, so I guess you earned the right."

I hate how the forum automatically corrects you, so that's partially why I did what I did. I mean, what's the point? It's not like it's something that's going to cause flame wars or anything.......right? And that's still a stupid reason to let Vegeta go.

[Gaffer Tape]

And Krillin (not "Kuririn", if you want to use the dub spellings, then please, at least do it right) let Vegeta go because Gokū begged him to do so. He wasn't going to listen to him at first, but he begged him to do it, and Kuririn eventually gave in because, as he said, "Okay. You saved us, so I guess you earned the right."

I hate how the forum automatically corrects you, so that's partially why I did what I did. I mean, what's the point? It's not like it's something that's going to cause flame wars or anything.......right? And that's still a stupid reason to let Vegeta go.

But it doesn't on this. You can type "Krillin" until the cows come home, and the forum's gonna leave it alone.

[Fionordequester]

Really? "Krillin"....huh, so it corrects you if you put it in wrong, but doesn't when you put it in right....odd. I'dve thought it'd work the other way around, but ok...

[Puto]

The problem is that he wrote Krill-en instead of Krill-in >_>

THAT is corrected because it's wrong. And apparently it got corrected on mine too when I was trying to point out a mistake.

[VegettoEX]

We correct far more bastardizations of horrible spelling than anything else anyone ever wants to try to whine about. Do you know how many wrong fucking permutations of "tankoubon" I've seen?

[Fionordequester]

...How many? I'm actually kind of curious. I mean, Tankoubon is that other manga company other than Viz-Big that does the DBZ manga, right?

[Bussani]

...How many? I'm actually kind of curious. I mean, Tankoubon is that other manga company other than Viz-Big that does the DBZ manga, right?

No. A tankobon is more like...what you might call a "graphic novel". A book that collects a bunch of chapters. When talking about Viz's non-VizBIG releases, I sometimes call them "the tankobon-like ones" so everyone knows what I mean.

Technically the original version of The Simpsons constitutes an English dub of the series, but you never hear people refer to it as such

Ah, but there's a distinction. With the Simpsons (and most western animation), the voices are recorded first and the visuals are drawn to match, so it's the opposite of dubbing...whatever you'd call that. Still, I agree that the term "Japanese dub" is odd and can be confusing when used the way in question.

[Kingdom Heartless]

So, either Goku didn't spare Vegeta entirely out of selfishness, or he's not pure hearted. I don't know about you, but I'm not having it both ways.

Personally, I don't think he did do it for entirely selfish reasons... I think he also didn't like the idea of offing the only other member of his entire species.

[Rocketman]

In short: no, not really. Maybe it's played up more in the anime

They have Roshi grab 18's tits during the shockwave from Vegeta self-destructing against Buu. Banned or not, SSV does have a point that the dub takes it harder for bullshit that the JP anime pulls also.

But that's beside the point of the thread. I would say the biggest problem is the change to Vegeta's death speech on Namek.