DBZ Manga censorship

[Super Sonic]

The fact that I was able to get uncensored volumes of both DB and DBZ at the library and was forced to buy censored crap at the bookstore infuriates me. I got all 26 DBZ volumes out of weakness, but when I realized that Yamcha flipping off Tenshinhan had been censored in every version available to purchase, I cut my DB collection short. I'm either getting it as it's meant to be, or not at all.

If you want Yamcha flipping him off so bad, why didn't you buy vol. 10 when it first came out or the single comic release? It was there.

Come to think of it, while I understand some of the issues with Z censorship, with DB the initial printings with the 13 up label were uncensored so I wonder why guys just didn't get them then. (You guys who were in middle school or elementary school in 2003 when the SJ label started, don't count due to likelyhood of small allownances).

[Kendamu]

The fact that I was able to get uncensored volumes of both DB and DBZ at the library and was forced to buy censored crap at the bookstore infuriates me. I got all 26 DBZ volumes out of weakness, but when I realized that Yamcha flipping off Tenshinhan had been censored in every version available to purchase, I cut my DB collection short. I'm either getting it as it's meant to be, or not at all.

If you want Yamcha flipping him off so bad, why didn't you buy vol. 10 when it first came out or the single comic release? It was there.

Come to think of it, while I understand some of the issues with Z censorship, with DB the initial printings with the 13 up label were uncensored so I wonder why guys just didn't get them then. (You guys who were in middle school or elementary school in 2003 when the SJ label started, don't count due to likelyhood of small allownances).

That, or as I say with the people who turn this into a conversation about Bulma's boobs, why don't you just buy the Japanese volumes that have the panels you want so badly?

[Akumaito Beam]

While we're on the subject, I'd still gladly take Viz's English translation if the alternative is everyone talking in a stiff, robotic way as seen in Simmon's subtitles. I'm sure his subtitles are accurate but I'll sacrifice some silly details that at the end of the day affect nothing outside of jarring some kids power level debate in exchange for the dialogue to flow like actual people are speaking.

I'm not saying Viz is perfect, stuff like "Full Metal Jacket" or inconsistent, made up speech patterns are annoying but at the end of the day I'll always compare this translation to the near perfect (IMHO) YuYu Hakusho dub.

By the by I would so buy the anime series all over again if they Vizafied the subs as a gimmick. Just tossin' that out there...Funi.

[TripleRach]

That, or as I say with the people who turn this into a conversation about Bulma's boobs, why don't you just buy the Japanese volumes that have the panels you want so badly?

Importing the Japanese books is a great idea if your biggest concern is visual censorship, but there are problems with the dialogue too.

While we're on the subject, I'd still gladly take Viz's English translation if the alternative is everyone talking in a stiff, robotic way as seen in Simmon's subtitles. I'm sure his subtitles are accurate but I'll sacrifice some silly details that at the end of the day affect nothing outside of jarring some kids power level debate in exchange for the dialogue to flow like actual people are speaking.

I'm not saying Viz is perfect, stuff like "Full Metal Jacket" or inconsistent, made up speech patterns are annoying but at the end of the day I'll always compare this translation to the near perfect (IMHO) YuYu Hakusho dub.

While I don't necessarily agree that Simmons's subtitles are "robotic," in general, there is a middle ground between ultra literal boring translations and being punched up with cute jokes.

[Herms]

I'm not saying Viz is perfect, stuff like "Full Metal Jacket" or inconsistent, made up speech patterns are annoying but at the end of the day I'll always compare this translation to the near perfect (IMHO) YuYu Hakusho dub.

I wish the YYH dub were as accurate as Viz's DB translation, but they still take plenty of liberties that have nothing to do with making the dialogue sound natural.

[Akumaito Beam]

While I don't necessarily agree that Simmons's subtitles are "robotic," in general, there is a middle ground between ultra literal boring translations and being punched up with cute jokes.

I feel like Viz is the middle ground. In my book something like Funi's DBZ would be at the "punched up with cute jokes" end of the spectrum. This "middle ground" really all hinges on your interpretation of natural. I've literally seen official manga translations with the phrase "onee-chan" in them. Some people look at anime and expect words like "nakama" to be left alone. Some want a word for word translation, some like me prefer a loosened up script so long as you get the original point and feel across.They all think their way is the best way to go about translation. I don't really think there is one universal "middle ground."

[AgitoZ]

This "middle ground" really all hinges on your interpretation of natural. I've literally seen official manga translations with the phrase "onee-chan" in them. Some people look at anime and expect words like "nakama" to be left alone.

Those people don't want a translation. Since the whole point of a translation is to, you know, translate.

Some want a word for word translation, some like me prefer a loosened up script so long as you get the original point and feel across.They all think their way is the best way to go about translation. I don't really think there is one universal "middle ground."

Nobody really wants a word for word, people will accept a loosened script (translation?) to a certain extent. Which personally, I don't think the YYH English dub isn't a very good example of.

[Dr. Casey]

Yeah, far as I can tell the Yu Yu Hakusho dub was only a few short steps above the Dragon Ball dub in terms of accuracy, which isn't exactly a compliment since the original Dragon Ball had a mediocre translation. That's the impression I get from the Spirit Detective and Dark Tournament arcs, anyway; I've read that the Black and Makai Tournament arcs were better translated, but I'd pretty much fallen out of the series by the time the dubbed versions of those were aired.

[Adamant]

Nobody really wants a word for word, people will accept a loosened script (translation?) to a certain extent. Which personally, I don't think the YYH English dub isn't a very good example of.

I have no idea hat that dub is like, but a loose translation still has to represent what's actually originally written. In a dub or text translation, you can get away with deriving slightly from the original for throwaway stuff people won't notice, but with subtitles, the original audio is right there, and there are going to be people who will notice if you just start making shit up.

So if you, say, translate the Japanese word "kaigun" into "marines", you are absolutely, inarguably mistranslating. It's not what the word means, there's no context whatsoever where it would be even remotely possible to argue it's a valid choice, and people will call you out on not actually translating.

[SylentEcho]

So Viz does have the scanners beat (unless new scanners redid the entire series) but it's still a butchered version and paying fans who don't know Japanese are kind of stuck having to settle for lesser quality and censorship with their DB manga fix.

Butchered? You're definitely overreacting. I dislike any changes made, but c'mon now. You wanna see something really being butchered? Go and find the original edited brodcast of FUNi's season 3 dub.

Agreed. Mangas that are missing swear words aren't butchered. Season 3 on the other hand was abysmal.

[Herms]

Yeah, far as I can tell the Yu Yu Hakusho dub was only a few short steps above the Dragon Ball dub in terms of accuracy, which isn't exactly a compliment since the original Dragon Ball had a mediocre translation. That's the impression I get from the Spirit Detective and Dark Tournament arcs, anyway; I've read that the Black and Makai Tournament arcs were better translated, but I'd pretty much fallen out of the series by the time the dubbed versions of those were aired.

Admittedly I've only spot-checked the dub here and there, but the later story arcs don't seem any better. The explanation for how Sensui acquired his sacred energy is completely different in the dub, and instead of saying that people like him are the source for legends of angels, Sensui says he's opposed to God. And I hear the dub creates a "White Chapter" as an analogue of the Black Chapter tape Sensui steals. In the final story arc, the dub also invents some sort of subplot explaining that the entire show was created by Koenma out of his footage of Yusuke's adventures, practically everything said during Kurama's conversation with the demon possessing his stepbrother is completely different, and the countries of Raizen/Yomi/Mukuro are the only three countries in the Demon World instead of the three superpowers amid countless weaker states. There's probably lots more too, this is just what I've either noticed from watching bits and pieces, or have heard about.

So like I said (to vaguely connect this back to DB), Viz's DB manga translation is far more accurate than Funi's YYH dub.

[Super Sonic]

Yeah, far as I can tell the Yu Yu Hakusho dub was only a few short steps above the Dragon Ball dub in terms of accuracy, which isn't exactly a compliment since the original Dragon Ball had a mediocre translation. That's the impression I get from the Spirit Detective and Dark Tournament arcs, anyway; I've read that the Black and Makai Tournament arcs were better translated, but I'd pretty much fallen out of the series by the time the dubbed versions of those were aired.

A few things I think were changed due to cultural differences, like the whole Urashima Taro story isn't as known in the States. Still the dub had the funniest line of the series in the Dark Tournament arc. In the original Japanese, Juri yells about wanting to get married and Koto says they'll cut the celebrations short and run off. In the dub, their dialogue went like this:

Juri: (screams) No! I don't wanna die as a virgin!

Koto: Oh people! Juri's just revealed a shocker that I never would've guessed, with her popular stint at the committee cocktail lounge. Well, as dutiful as I am to the awards, I think this cause is a little more noble. Let's find you a man!

Then they run off.

[MCDaveG]

That, or as I say with the people who turn this into a conversation about Bulma's boobs, why don't you just buy the Japanese volumes that have the panels you want so badly?

I have 'em all, but I can't f**kin' read 'em!!!!

[Super Sonic]

That, or as I say with the people who turn this into a conversation about Bulma's boobs, why don't you just buy the Japanese volumes that have the panels you want so badly?

I have 'em all, but I can't f**kin' read 'em!!!!

I think he means if guys want to see boobs, just buy it in Japanese as they're implying that they just want to see boobs. They might care only for looking at boobs and not care about dialogue.

[AgitoZ]

You could always just get both the original Japanese and a translation you understand.

[Deep Thought]

The reasons for censoring the scenes in Dragon Ball are similar to the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven." (Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_Eleven) Both are extremely offensive to the ethnic groups that they derided, and while Dragon Ball was less so, the lesser of the two evils is still evil. I'm not claiming that Akira Toriyama maliciously made the characters to offend, nor do I think that he is a racist man. One must understand the distinction between "racist" and offensive." While I don't think that Mr. Popo and other characters were made to promote a racist worldview, it's still clear to me that they are quite offensive. There is one distinction between the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven" and Dragon Ball in that most (most) Looney Tunes fans don't scream "WHAT A DISCRETION TO THE SERIES, HOW DARE WARNER BROTHERS REMOVE THESE EPISODES?" Indeed, there is a stronger case to be made for the "Censored Elven" because they were extremely indicative of the times that they were released in, and as such, a rather important part of cartoon history. Should they are on TV unmarred or in some cases, even at all? Absolutely not.

Unlike Jinx or Oil Man, who kind of maybe look like racial stereotypes if you look at them from the right angle, there are several things that make Mr. Popo extremely offensive to many different ethnic groups. His behavior, as well as his appearance, shows this. I really don't understand why people think it's so unfathomable that Viz made this slight censor.

Aside from that and some aspects of the female and male form (all six panels in the entire series containing them), that's really all they visually censored, isn't it? (Censoring the guns was ludicrously silly, I will agree with that, it's an extremely violent series as is and I don't really see how guns would affect that too much).

This rant is a little long, but I'm getting sick of people whining whenever the words "Popo" and "Viz" are uttered in the same sentence.

[MCDaveG]

The reasons for censoring the scenes in Dragon Ball are similar to the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven." (Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_Eleven) Both are extremely offensive to the ethnic groups that they derided, and while Dragon Ball was less so, the lesser of the two evils is still evil. I'm not claiming that Akira Toriyama maliciously made the characters to offend, nor do I think that he is a racist man. One must understand the distinction between "racist" and offensive." While I don't think that Mr. Popo and other characters were made to promote a racist worldview, it's still clear to me that they are quite offensive. There is one distinction between the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven" and Dragon Ball in that most (most) Looney Tunes fans don't scream "WHAT A DISCRETION TO THE SERIES, HOW DARE WARNER BROTHERS REMOVE THESE EPISODES?" Indeed, there is a stronger case to be made for the "Censored Elven" because they were extremely indicative of the times that they were released in, and as such, a rather important part of cartoon history. Should they are on TV unmarred or in some cases, even at all? Absolutely not.

Unlike Jinx or Oil Man, who kind of maybe look like racial stereotypes if you look at them from the right angle, there are several things that make Mr. Popo extremely offensive to many different ethnic groups. His behavior, as well as his appearance, shows this. I really don't understand why people think it's so unfathomable that Viz made this slight censor.

Aside from that and some aspects of the female and male form (all six panels in the entire series containing them), that's really all they visually censored, isn't it? (Censoring the guns was ludicrously silly, I will agree with that, it's an extremely violent series as is and I don't really see how guns would affect that too much).

This rant is a little long, but I'm getting sick of people whining whenever the words "Popo" and "Viz" are uttered in the same sentence.

I think that debates on this kind of topic are quite difficult. As I understand that in US there is deferent morale and attitude, here, we can find these things insignificant or hilarious, on the other hand, lot of European countries find offensive the stereotypes in which they are presented by others. So I understand that African descendants can be offended by this in context of their history in the USA. But everything is based on personal thought, myself I never thought about Popo as afro-american or african, as he's different entity and I think that Officer Black is quite stereotyped but don't find it offensive too, as I'm amazed how Asians are portrayed nowadays in US cartoons with ludicrously flat eyes, two tooths sticking from their mouth and bowl cut. Never heard of some uproar from the Asian camp about it.

In short, I don't understand these quarrels at all, it's f**kin' cartoon (general cartoons) which itself is caricature of people in general and I think that some ''affected'' people are taking it to seriously and simply have some personal problem. Like feminists.

[GS7X7]

The reasons for censoring the scenes in Dragon Ball are similar to the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven." (Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_Eleven) Both are extremely offensive to the ethnic groups that they derided, and while Dragon Ball was less so, the lesser of the two evils is still evil. I'm not claiming that Akira Toriyama maliciously made the characters to offend, nor do I think that he is a racist man. One must understand the distinction between "racist" and offensive." While I don't think that Mr. Popo and other characters were made to promote a racist worldview, it's still clear to me that they are quite offensive. There is one distinction between the Looney Tunes "Censored Eleven" and Dragon Ball in that most (most) Looney Tunes fans don't scream "WHAT A DISCRETION TO THE SERIES, HOW DARE WARNER BROTHERS REMOVE THESE EPISODES?" Indeed, there is a stronger case to be made for the "Censored Elven" because they were extremely indicative of the times that they were released in, and as such, a rather important part of cartoon history. Should they are on TV unmarred or in some cases, even at all? Absolutely not.

Unlike Jinx or Oil Man, who kind of maybe look like racial stereotypes if you look at them from the right angle, there are several things that make Mr. Popo extremely offensive to many different ethnic groups. His behavior, as well as his appearance, shows this. I really don't understand why people think it's so unfathomable that Viz made this slight censor.

Aside from that and some aspects of the female and male form (all six panels in the entire series containing them), that's really all they visually censored, isn't it? (Censoring the guns was ludicrously silly, I will agree with that, it's an extremely violent series as is and I don't really see how guns would affect that too much).

This rant is a little long, but I'm getting sick of people whining whenever the words "Popo" and "Viz" are uttered in the same sentence.

WB never censored it, responded to a petition promising never to censor it again saying they wouldn't, then went back to censoring the eps while not bothering to tell fans ahead of time and while acting like their edited version was still uncut, while then randomly censoring/chopping up other tv shows.

[GS7X7]

One last thing I want to add...

"I know it's easy for me to say this because I own the kanzenban anyway, but I think this is a considerable overreaction. Yes, censorship sucks, but the actual number of panels Viz censors is miniscule compared to those they leave as-is."


The changes for Dragon Ball are fairly minor. However, what about One Piece? Or Full Metal Alchemist? Or Naruto? Or countless others? The worst thing about censorship in DB is that it means that Viz will censor every single one of their mangas with zero warning whenever their Standards and Practices decides there's something "just too racey" for Americans to handle. They're not even acting out of protests, they're simply trying to vanilla-ize their manga so much as to keep imaginary outrage from soccer moms from occurring.

Season 3 was horrible but Funimation released DVDs for it, marked cut and uncut. With Viz they simply pretend like what they're selling is uncut without telling anyone. I doubt I'd ever have the time to make a Viz Mangas Uncensored site but I hope somebody reading this is inspired to do so someday.

[AgitoZ]

However, what about One Piece? Or Full Metal Alchemist? Or Naruto? Or countless others?

Those are also very minor.

The one I'm most familiar with, One Piece, is left pretty much untouched, visually speaking. If anything I'm more concerned with the stupid name changes and the like, like Zolo, Kami Eneru, or more importantly changing Louge Town, ugh. They also had stupid pirate talk added in the beginning but that was later changed in future printings. But once 4Kids lost the license and we got past Skypeia, changes started happening less and less.

I guess since the translation is fairly good it makes changes like those seem more apparent.