No, SSJ Vegetto is not that strong.

[Fox666]

Again, you'd need proof to suggest it's not a direct translation and just a paraphrase. In that same paragraph he uses a colon and still starts the translation with "it says", meaning him beginning with "it says" doesn't automatically turn the rest of the translation into a paraphrase.

I trust what Herms says, but it still bothers me that him or nobody else provided a strict literal translation of everything on that page.

[asbereth]

The only reason "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" doesn't "make sense" to some people is because it doesn't fit in with their personal opinions or battle powers. However, there is literally nothing that says the aforementioned equation for Vegetto can't make sense.

Just because you want to look at everything through a mathematician's eyes and over-analyze every single insignificant little quote doesn't mean everyone else should.

There is no personal opinion in this matter. When you have two numbers with units, and multiply them together, you ALSO multiply the units. A handyman, a plumber, a painter, a math college professor, and my 12-year-old cousin would all tell you the same thing.

As lash already mentioned, there are ways to make sense of 'Vegetto = Vegeta x Goku', but taking it in the most literal and simplest sense won't. Vegetto's battle power simply can't be the multiplication of two battle powers (both are NOT unit-less numbers), since it won't even be a battle power anymore. You need a little bit of massaging in the wording to make it completely work (I believe I and several other posters have gone over this already).

Likewise, a multiplication of two lengths won't be a length anymore. A multiplication of two speeds won't be a speed anymore. A multiplication of two temperatures won't be a temperature anymore. All these numbers have units, that also get multiplied when you multiply them together.

A LITERAL multiplication of two battle powers (which have units) CAN'T be a battle power, since it will have a unit of battle power^2.

[Rocketman]

Vegetto's battle power simply can't be the multiplication of two battle powers (both are NOT unit-less numbers), since it won't even be a battle power anymore.

I dunno, this sounds about right to me. Vegetto is beyond such pitiful things as "battle powers".

[Fox666]

Square battle powers? But it's Vegetto we are talking about...!!

[hleV]

You don't multiply battle powers. You take the numbers, multiply them, and the result is Vegetto's strength in battle powers.
If Goku is 10,000,000 BP and Vegeta is 9,000,000 BP, you take 10,000,000 and 9,000,000 and multiply them. You get 90,000,000,000,000, so Vegetto's battle power is 90,000,000,000,000.

[Bussani]

You don't multiply battle powers. You take the numbers, multiply them, and the result is Vegetto's strength in battle powers.
If Goku is 10,000,000 BP and Vegeta is 9,000,000 BP, you take 10,000,000 and 9,000,000 and multiply them. You get 90,000,000,000,000, so Vegetto's battle power is 90,000,000,000,000.

In other words, completely different to how math actually works. That's exactly what asbereth is saying. He said this like two pages ago.

To make this work, what we should do is, take Vegeta's battle power in scouter's unit (just the number and forget the units), take Goku's battle power in scouter's unit (just the number and forget the units), multiply these two numbers together, then slap the battle power scouter's units at the end (rather than bp^2). It's mathematically far-fetched, but then again, some degree of suspension of disbelief is required for any work of fiction anyway. After all, this is Dragon Ball we're talking about.

[hleV]

Yeah, I didn't read the whole thing, as from one look it seemed overcomplicated when I myself thought of the same thing as natural/simple.

Hell, SEG didn't add "BP" next to "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta", which possibly implies that we only multiply numbers, and the result is the BP of Vegetto.

[Fox666]

You don't multiply battle powers. You take the numbers, multiply them, and the result is Vegetto's strength in battle powers.
If Goku is 10,000,000 BP and Vegeta is 9,000,000 BP, you take 10,000,000 and 9,000,000 and multiply them. You get 90,000,000,000,000, so Vegetto's battle power is 90,000,000,000,000.

When you multiply a meter by another, you get a square meter, a complete different unity. The reason is because if you use millimeters or inches the result will be different depending of the unit you use. You can't multiply the "number" of a meter expecting to bypass that issue.

[Bussani]

Hell, SEG didn't add "BP" next to "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta"

That's what lash was saying.

which possibly implies that we only multiply numbers, and the result is the BP of Vegetto.

I don't think the writers of the guide put that much thought into it, but taking the text of the paragraph itself into account, that may be closest to what they intended.

[Fox666]

Hell, SEG didn't add "BP" next to "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta"

Huh, perhaps you are right about that. The Daizenshuu constantly makes use of the word battle power as sinonymous for strength, even after the Freeza saga. Perhaps the Super Exciting Guide doesn't have any strictly meaning for the word...

Or perhaps Toriyama was just giving clueless information
- Hey Toriyama sensei, we are writing about Goku growth, can you tell us how strong he get every transformation?
- Let me check my old notes... for the Super Saiyan it is fifty times... for the Super Saiyan 2 is two times and for 3 is four times.
- What about the Potara?
- It sum the battle power.
- What? But how could Vegetto be stronger than Goku as a Super Saiyan 3, is you just said...
- So it multiply the battle power.
- Eh? That's too much for (...)

[daveslaine2770]

Hell, SEG didn't add "BP" next to "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta"

Huh, perhaps you are right about that. The Daizenshuu constantly makes use of the word battle power as sinonymous for strength, even after the Freeza saga. Perhaps the Super Exciting Guide doesn't have any strictly meaning for the word...

Or perhaps Toriyama was just giving clueless information
- Hey Toriyama sensei, we are writing about Goku growth, can you tell us how strong he get every transformation?
- Let me check my old notes... for the Super Saiyan it is fifty times... for the Super Saiyan 2 is two times and for 3 is four times.
- What about the Potara?
- It sum the battle power.
- What? But how could Vegetto be stronger than Goku as a Super Saiyan 3, is you just said...
- So it multiply the battle power.
- Eh? That's too much for (...)

Thats funny, theoretically possible, but stupid.

How about this. Its Dragonball Z. The show wont fucking end because the characters were too weak and thus died. No, the main characters always have to win.

Judging from how SSJ3 Gotenks fought Super Buu, Id say that SSJ3 Gotenks is probably 1.2-1.3 times Buu. Gohan on the other hand, was at least 2.5-3 times stronger than Buu.

When Buu absorbed Gotenks, Buu seeminly became around 3-4 times stronger than Gohan.

Absorbing Gohan most likely gave Buu another 3 to 5 time boost.

But aside all these powers, you know it would be stupid too make the characters lose, especially after a fusion as a last resort. Of course AT had to make Vegito stronger, its not like he would make them stay weaker than Buu.

Most likely yes, AT probably went with Vegito being super strong and God, but only God compared to everything we had seen up to that point, and only God compared to the mightiest and strongest fighter up to date, being Buu.

Buu was incredibly strong, stronger than all enemies most likely from the first 20 episodes of GT, but everyone in GT from Baby onwards would completely obliterate Buu.

If Goku and Krillin were to fight in Dragonball, and Goku had a power level of 50 and Krillin 5, then what do you think would happen? What kind of ownage? Do you think Krillin would even do anything to Goku?

But Buu wasnt 5, he was at least 10 compared to 50.

And dont pull no base Vegito crap, it never happened in the manga.

Vegito could never really kick Buu's ass, thats why he transformed to gain the 50x boost or whatever that was needed.

Base Gotenks couldnt do shit to Buu.

Neither could Base Vegito. Yes, Vegeta and Goku are far stronger than the kids, and Potara is a better and stronger method of fusion, but not by that much.

Remember that Old Kai's sayings arent completely literal, but do emphasize points, as in, yes Potara is very much stronger than Fusion, but thats all it is, stronger, not Goku x Vegeta is Vegito or Vegito>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu.

But more like, Vegito>>>Buu.

There, mission complete.

In fact, I am restating the error I made from before.

SSJ 4 Gogeta>>>>>SSJ4 Goku>SSJ Vegito>>>Buu>Vegito=SSJ Gogeta

[Craddle]

I always tried not to pay that much attention to power levels. Hence the reason I don't migrate to the "In-Universe Discussion" very often. If someone was stronger, then they were just that. Stronger. However, when I read this topic and I saw the "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" I thought to myself... I had never really considered that as an option. I always just thought of it as "Goku + Vegeta = Vegetto" Not that it really matters to me either way. Nor do I think either way is right or wrong. I just never considered there to be a variable in between the two at all. And the "+" in my head always just meant fusion.

[Perfect]

I see nothing wrong with multiplying their strength together, really. The whole "it's too strong of a result", is one of the stupidest and fruitless arguments I've ever heard; he's supposed to be that fucking strong for a reason.

[Bussani]

To be honest, I don't care much about battle powers to begin with, but I care even less about the supposed strengths of characters in GT. I guess that's why I have no problem with Vegetto being any absurdly large number. After all, like we said earlier, Vegetto wasn't even trying to fight Buu--he just wanted to get absorbed.

[Kaboom]

I see nothing wrong with multiplying their strength together, really. The whole "it's too strong of a result", is one of the stupidest and fruitless arguments I've ever heard; he's supposed to be that fucking strong for a reason.

Obviously. It's Vegetto. I don't know why this is still a question.

[dario03]

The current discussion has moved past the "its to strong" and isn't so much about denying Vegetto's strength as it is about the statement of Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto. Its more of a curiosity about if the statement can work literally or not.

[Rocketman]

It can and it does, yet it cannot and does not. Open your mind to Vegetto's glory, my son.

[hleV]

Meh, let's just say that we've made Vegetto even stronger.

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto BP
->
Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto BP²

I realized that we're talking about Vegetto here. Nothing is impossible with him.

[Bussani]

BP² wouldn't really be "stronger" than BP, just like meters² aren't "longer" than meters. They are more incomprehensible, though, and I guess that's enough!

[hleV]

BP² wouldn't really be "stronger" than BP, just like meters² aren't "longer" than meters. They are more incomprehensible, though, and I guess that's enough!

1m² is a whole more than 1m.