Are Tenkaichi fans ruining the franchise's progress?

[VegettoEX]

Who are these "people" that you are talking about? How exactly are you quantifying what they said? These games sell globally: have you read every bit of feedback in every language? What was your data collection process like?

That's my point. Everyone keeps talking about "people" and "the fans" but just seems to talk about what THEY THEMSELVES WANTED, near as I can tell.

"The fans" usually refer to the section of the fanbase that projects the most common, reoccuring and often most unlikely requests each year.

But who is this and where is this and how did you arrive to the conclusion that what you're saying is the consensus is actually the consensus...?

I'm still operating under the belief that people say this and still go on to just explain what it is they personally want in the games.

[Thanos]

It seems as though this thread is just one big weasel word. The markets for Japan and the U.S. are different, and while I'm sure the developers take the states into account
(presumably collectively with Canada and Mexico), it's only a small piece of the puzzle with respect to their fan-based decisions. They take the overall consensus worldwide, and reflect on their decisions that way. Odds are, the Sparking!/Tenkaichi-style is what fans want (in a global sense). To blame isolated groups on American (or even English-speaking) forums is absurd.

[DonieZ]

@BlazingFiddlesticks; I never got into the game too deeply, but yeah those aspects greatly bring the game down. It's clear that these would hold barriers to the game ever being played competitively. Even then the game is such great fun despite all that, and I'm stuck asking why they haven't brought it or something similar to home consoles.

@EXBadguy; It's clear you haven't understood the sentiment of my post. It's not that the game - RB2 if you've forgotten - takes long to learn; it's that it is BORING to learn. [This is my personal opinion and even though I don't understand how, it varies from person to person]. The game just isn't interesting. Have you ever purchased a game and within 10 minutes of playing you want to snap in half and throw over a bridge? RB2 and I have that sort of relationship. (To be fair this feeling could also be owed to the general theme and mood of the game). I just don't feel compelled to learn, why would I put myself through that kind of torture. Just because a game takes long to learn fyi it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't worth it; it's the other way round. If the game is worth it one should want to put time into it. Fuck I've had Street Fighter IV for years now, and I'm still a beginner, I've actually stagnated for at least two years at the same level but I still have a blast when I play with my friends. I intend to get a lot better this year and put time into it, because it is rewarding and worth it. As I've said in another thread, it isn't all about memorising combos, the game should be fun and enjoyable at the simplest levels. A beginner, someone who has at least adjusted to all the quarter turn motions in sf for example, should be able to access the enjoyment of the game, not just the elite minority who have learned the absurdly boring smash attack 4; hit up; hit down; hit left; teleport right; smash attack 2; generic rush attack 6.... End of combo. Wait for opponent to stand and repeat the same combo with minor changes. Have a great day.

I said it early on, and I know a couple other people also asked it, but I think it needs to be re-stated/re-asked in light of the extra conversation that's taken place:

Is there any evidence what-so-ever that Bandai Namco / their hired developers actively listen to fan feedback and incorporate those direct bits of feedback into their development cycles?

Do they listen to the majority? If so, yes, they listen. If not, they don't. Simple as that. I'm not saying whether following the majority of fans regarding a kids show is a good idea. I'm just stating a fact.

Hey, first post!

lol your comment is the equivalent to "Is the banana yellow? If yes, then it is yellow". I get you are actually trying to say that if there have been features which were widely requested by the community appear in the games then it's clear they listen to our requests. But that's just stating the obvious, everyone knows that. The question at presence is whether they actively incorporate our requests into their development plans, which there is no proof whatsoever of. In fact if anything, they purposely don't listen to anyone, not even lo and behold his highness The Treevax himself. How often has his grace attended Japan Expo for interviews with Namco Bandai and X developer, stated his requests and those of the "community", only for NB to turn around and do the complete opposite every single year? (You guys seeing where this is going?) I mean come on, we aren't even Japanese, does anyone actually know the popular opinions in Japan (I do reckon they have the same variety as over here, but one can't be certain). The developers likely take the feedback from Mr Tony Shoupinou, smile, close the door and tear up the piece of paper there and then laughing hysterically at how the fans think they'll ever see Super Saiyan 5 and Bulma in the next DB game. In fact they probably have assistants to do that.

@Zero; Well that's unfortunate. I'm not trying to undermine your efforts or what you have been able to demonstrate, it's clear you have taken the game near to its extremities. But you must understand what it is I am desiring. Tenkaichi 3 attempted with their Z counter or whatever it was, but it was unreasonably implemented. Budokai 3 introduced the sonic sway, greatly done; other fighting games simply have a solid block and the opponent has plenty of opportunity to counter. With Tenkaichi and Raging Blast it feels as though the game is heavily centred around executing combos rather than trying to overcome the opponents defences. ... Just watching a vid from this Jey3149 and it occurs to me that perhaps RB and RB2 suffer such faults moreso than T2. Either way I still stand by my opinion that bypassing an opponents defences is an easy task in the Tenkaichi-esque games; and hence the game really comes down to who knows the best combo.

[budokaifanatic007]

Quick question, Can Capcom produce a DBZ game or is Bandai Namco only allowed to make DBZ games?

[Quebaz]

Quick question, Can Capcom produce a DBZ game or is Bandai Namco only allowed to make DBZ games?

Capcom could make them and Namco could still publish them. Such has been done for the older Gundam vs Gundam games.

[budokaifanatic007]

How likely is it for Dimps to continue to develop DBZ games after XENOVERSE and if BN is aware of the Budokai/Burst Limit community and they themselves are on boat with making another Budokai, whats holding them back???

[ZeroAnnihilated]

I was quite sure this topic was dying out...

To be frank though, characters having unique moves in Tenkaichi wouldn't have made much a difference in terms of depth anyhow.

The validity of this statement depends on what your initial standpoint of Tenkaichi depth happens to be...

What a lot of people it seems don't get is that long combos do not make a fighting game.

Though most games still include this, depending on one's ability. In a sense, this defines a game as much as it defines a player. BUT, maybe I'm wrong.

What makes an interesting fighting game is one where you have to fight one character different to another, one where you have to be cautious of a moves start up frames, of a moves invincibility, having to use different tactics against different people.

I have yet to play a game that doesn't include this. Interesting...

It is NOT all about memorising the longest, besets, uniquest or unoriginal combo-string. This is what Zero (from the other thread) from my observation doesn't seem to get. All was posted and shown were videos detailing interesting new combos which were discovered. Wowawilo give the guy a reward. All I saw were one-sided beat downs.

I understand that when I write, I tend to write a lot. So I can definitely see how someone might misinterpret what I am attempting to explain, especially when the explanation is filled with concepts people don't normally take into consideration. Not to mention, most people who engage in such arguments (based on my own observations) don't really listen to what is being explained. That being said... I'll try to keep this simple so people won't get the wrong interpretation. Now, I'm taking your argument in your own words so stop me if I'm off the mark. I don't want you thinking I'm ignoring your point. I am taking your statement to say that a fighting game's depth is not about memorizing the longest, best, most unique or "original" combo string; that what I had previously posted was merely a display of interesting new combos within the Tenkaichi system, and most importantly, that all of the exhibitions were one sided beat downs in which my opponent did not stand a chance. Based on this concept, you believe that I have yet to fully grasp the true meaning of a fighting game's depth. Pulling from your own words, this is as strong as I can possibly state your argument (with the exception of your "Wowawilo").

Well, let me begin with agreeing with you. =)... A game's depth is not defined by memorizing the longest, best, most unique or original combo string, though the contrary has been supported by many Budokai players in the past. I guess my main question is: Why was I referenced to not understanding this? The only time I mentioned anything about combo potential for Tenkaichi 2 was to assure (or attempt to assure) SingleFringe&Sparks that the combo system of Tenkaichi 2 is not nearly as limited as he (and many others lacking in experience or interest) would believe. Beyond this, I thought I made it clear in more than one reply that there's too much information regarding the offensive structure of Tenkaichi 2 to explain and that I am directing such attention to a project that you have yet to read. As much as I do include in my messages, let's consider the possibility that there's enough information in my replies without putting words in my mouth.

About the videos that were presented... the only Tenkaichi 2 video I presented was a single technique that had nothing to do with the combo system of Tenkaichi 2. The tribute video that goku the krump dancer posted had a variety of combat factors incorporated. If you saw combo exhibitions and nothing else... I can't teach a blind man to see. Interestingly enough, what is most frustrating does not reside in teaching a blind man to see, but attempting to teach a man who has the ability to see but is unwilling to try. Now, I don't want to prejudge here... because I don't think you are blind, but it does sound like you are unwilling to try. Now, as for the exhibitions being one-sided... the people in these videos are considered to be the very best Tenkaichi 2 players found on the web (guess who's at the top). If you're expecting anything other than completed domination, you're watching the wrong video.

@Zero; Well that's unfortunate. I'm not trying to undermine your efforts or what you have been able to demonstrate, it's clear you have taken the game near to its extremities. But you must understand what it is I am desiring. Tenkaichi 3 attempted with their Z counter or whatever it was, but it was unreasonably implemented. Budokai 3 introduced the sonic sway, greatly done; other fighting games simply have a solid block and the opponent has plenty of opportunity to counter. With Tenkaichi and Raging Blast it feels as though the game is heavily centred around executing combos rather than trying to overcome the opponents defences. ... Just watching a vid from this Jey3149 and it occurs to me that perhaps RB and RB2 suffer such faults moreso than T2. Either way I still stand by my opinion that bypassing an opponents defences is an easy task in the Tenkaichi-esque games; and hence the game really comes down to who knows the best combo.

I understand that you aren't trying to undermine my efforts... but at this point, it wouldn't matter. The general understanding of Tenkaichi 2 has been outdated for so long, people (commonly Budokai players) feel confident in taking on the argument. I am not presenting my arguments on what you'd find in 2008 debates. Attempting to undermine what I've accomplished, what I've contributed to the Tenkaichi community, or my comprehension of depth within the Tenkaichi combat system won't get you (or anyone) anywhere without supporting facts that pack a punch. I mean, REALLY pack a punch.

Your argument regarding the defense of Tenkaichi is supported without the inclusion of what is required in Tenkaichi defense. Meaning, you are explaining to me that bypassing the opponent's defenses in Tenkaichi is an easy task, but you are not mentioning (or are simply unaware of) the skill required to present a strong defense in Tenkaichi, at least with Tenkaichi 2. There are many different attacks included in Tenkaichi 2, all of which relate to priority, reach, speed, effect, etc. Some attacks are simply unblockable. However, as strong as the offense CAN be from initiation, the defense CAN match it if the player is skilled enough. Now consider the counter opinion regarding the "depth" of other fighting games with a solid block. One defensive technique to handle all offense? Yeah, I would rip that argument to pieces.

Ultimately, the Tenkaichi games are either for you or they're not. There's no shame in having a preference. However, attempting to tear down the representation of a game's depth, skill involved regarding technical mastery, etc... let's do our homework before we come to class.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

@BlazingFiddlesticks; I never got into the game too deeply, but yeah those aspects greatly bring the game down. It's clear that these would hold barriers to the game ever being played competitively. Even then the game is such great fun despite all that, and I'm stuck asking why they haven't brought it or something similar to home consoles.

If the "Arcade" rules, without equipment and summons, with all of a character's moves were one of the default modes, like custom weapons versus no custom weapons like in Soul Calibur, I would have enjoyed it much more.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

It's not that the game - RB2 if you've forgotten - takes long to learn; it's that it is BORING to learn. [This is my personal opinion and even though I don't understand how, it varies from person to person]. The game just isn't interesting. Have you ever purchased a game and within 10 minutes of playing you want to snap in half and throw over a bridge? RB2 and I have that sort of relationship. (To be fair this feeling could also be owed to the general theme and mood of the game). I just don't feel compelled to learn, why would I put myself through that kind of torture.

Sums up a lot of what I hated about it, though Namco assumes that this means the game was too hard to play. It wasnt. It was easy, its just that there are too many useless features in the mechanics than anything that would balance out the essentials of what maneuvers we need for combat. A lot were pointless like the second throw and inconsistent wall-crash functions. I found burst limit a lot more natural with it, not to mention its defense options actually worked. Then the more torturous of the gameplay overall was just its pursuit-oriented gameplay.

[DonieZ]

I was quite sure this topic was dying out...

I was on hiatus...

Well, let me begin with agreeing with you. =)... A game's depth is not defined by memorizing the longest, best, most unique or original combo string, though the contrary has been supported by many Budokai players in the past. I guess my main question is: Why was I referenced to not understanding this? The only time I mentioned anything about combo potential for Tenkaichi 2 was to assure (or attempt to assure) SingleFringe&Sparks that the combo system of Tenkaichi 2 is not nearly as limited as he (and many others lacking in experience or interest) would believe. Beyond this, I thought I made it clear in more than one reply that there's too much information regarding the offensive structure of Tenkaichi 2 to explain and that I am directing such attention to a project that you have yet to read. As much as I do include in my messages, let's consider the possibility that there's enough information in my replies without putting words in my mouth.

Well that is my mistake. I aim that comment at Budokai players too, who rigorously go on about their cancel combos. Burst Limit's catalogue of combos doesn't seem nearly as extensive, yet somehow many people seem to prefer it, why is that...?

About the videos that were presented... the only Tenkaichi 2 video I presented was a single technique that had nothing to do with the combo system of Tenkaichi 2. The tribute video that goku the krump dancer posted had a variety of combat factors incorporated. If you saw combo exhibitions and nothing else... I can't teach a blind man to see. Interestingly enough, what is most frustrating does not reside in teaching a blind man to see, but attempting to teach a man who has the ability to see but is unwilling to try. Now, I don't want to prejudge here... because I don't think you are blind, but it does sound like you are unwilling to try. Now, as for the exhibitions being one-sided... the people in these videos are considered to be the very best Tenkaichi 2 players found on the web (guess who's at the top). If you're expecting anything other than completed domination, you're watching the wrong video.

Your argument regarding the defense of Tenkaichi is supported without the inclusion of what is required in Tenkaichi defense. Meaning, you are explaining to me that bypassing the opponent's defenses in Tenkaichi is an easy task, but you are not mentioning (or are simply unaware of) the skill required to present a strong defense in Tenkaichi, at least with Tenkaichi 2. There are many different attacks included in Tenkaichi 2, all of which relate to priority, reach, speed, effect, etc. Some attacks are simply unblockable. However, as strong as the offense CAN be from initiation, the defense CAN match it if the player is skilled enough. Now consider the counter opinion regarding the "depth" of other fighting games with a solid block. One defensive technique to handle all offense? Yeah, I would rip that argument to pieces.

Ultimately, the Tenkaichi games are either for you or they're not. There's no shame in having a preference. However, attempting to tear down the representation of a game's depth, skill involved regarding technical mastery, etc... let's do our homework before we come to class.

It occurs to me that I'm basing my judgement towards Tenkaichi 2 around my biases towards the Raging Blast series, where I am perhaps wrongly assuming the extent of their similarities. I usually don't explicitly comment on the Tenkaichi series (bar the first) as I haven't an extensive memory from my days of playing it, however it was the possible inability of seeing a "to and fro", or in other words, good fight which led me to my immediate disregard. But I see this isn't Raging Blast, and there's a reason Tenkaichi 2 is seen (in gameplay terms) as the best of the Spike series. I found this fight enjoyable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwTPHHo ... 8B&index=3
I won't argue anymore regarding Tenkaichi 2's "depth", a word whose meaning DB forum-ing has only increasingly obscured for me; what does it actually mean for a fighting game to have such quality? I won't pretend to be a fighting game buff, I know a knowledgable guy who could give you a good debate regarding the whole discussion to do with depth in DB games compared to fighting games as a whole, but he no longer regulars forums nor did he ever use Kanzenshuu.

After watching a few videos, it's clear to me Tenkaichi 2 has its worth in terms of technical mastery and a fighting game, however these things alone don't really do it for me unfortunately. Even though Tenkaichi 2 seems much better than I had currently thought, it still lacks in certain aspects to do with the DB experience. Yes I am still talking about gameplay. I still stand by my previous sentiment in other threads that Xenoverse has the potential to blow Tenkaichi/RB out of the scene, as long as its combat has fluidity; already I am taking note of DB-like elements in recent vids (not just flying and moving in 3D).This is probably the wrong place to talk about this though and we are moving on to a completely different topic. I admit though that Spike's recent titles has clouded my judgement of T2, however I still feel as though the game doesn't provide what I am looking for. Btw is it not possible for you to play against these other Tenkaichi 2 pros? Sounds like a wasted opportunity.

[Quebaz]

I'm going to agree with DonnieZ that RB2 left me a bad taste of all Spike's games in general, I actually went in and replayed Tenkaichi 3 and the only thing I miss from RB2 are the new supers and signature skills, because T3 does everything else much better, faster speed, better string options, better movement options, doesn't have Raging Soul, doesn't reuse animations simply because and it isn't as slow and boring. But still, I don't know it doesn't click to me, maybe because T3 is more automatic than T2 and I just need to replay T2, but something about it still feels a bit too off. (Those videos were really enjoyable to watch, I'll give you guys that, however my opinion that Super Attacks, especially rushes interrupt the flow of the gameplay still stands).

I won't go and say they should just ditch the 3D gameplay in favor of 2D, there's tons of potential in there both for people who just want to mash a little with their friends and for us that want to have a competitve experience, just look how much I love Gundam Extreme VS, how much J-Stars is loved by most for both the fanservice and gameplay (I need to rebuy it tho, I only got it for 2 months before I gifted it to my cousin, does it still have a big player base?), IMO they're 3D arena games done right and I think DBZ should take some notes (like Zenkai is doing...but I don't see it getitng ported anytime soon).

Also Budokai fans can be one-sighted as well, this guy made video about "proving" that RB2 is a pure mash-fest, however as you can right see in the video, It's all training mode shenanigans that clearly wouldn't work on a normal match, okay that's fine he probably never played the game outside of training mode, but then you look at the comments and you see:

TheSaiyanjin2
2 months ago (edited)

Just an impossible thing in any DBZ Dimps' games lulz... These people don't even know what they are talking, the whole RB community should be so ashamed. xD
Once again, nice vid' man. ^^

And he's one of the most respected Budokai players, you'd figure he would think that "Hey, how about you do that in a real match" but nope, gotta glorify Budokai.

[ZeroAnnihilated]

Well that is my mistake. I aim that comment at Budokai players too, who rigorously go on about their cancel combos. Burst Limit's catalogue of combos doesn't seem nearly as extensive, yet somehow many people seem to prefer it, why is that...?

Attempting to understand mechanical preferences stemming from a variety of communities is fairly difficult in its own right. Attempting to JUSTIFY these preferences on the other hand is completely futile. While I can justify my preference of Tenkaichi 2's system, I can still understand why some people would prefer the Budokai style. My argument has always been related to depth, not preference. Some people prefer Ultimate Tenkaichi to all other DBZ games. From what I've heard (bc I've yet to play it), UT's combat system is structured upon a foundation of luck. I can't stand any game that has to do with luck because I've always been a very unlucky person when considering games. I don't like board games based on the roll of the dice, flip of a card, etc, because "Lady Luck" seems to hate me. I never go into a fight thinking luck might be on my side. Instead, I train my ass off in spite of luck, knowing that when I engage in battle, luck can't help either one of us. To me, telling me "good luck" is more of an insult; an attempt to disregard all of the hard work I've put into the game. BUT, that's another topic altogether and I can see I've strayed a bit.

Budokai players tend to go on about their cancel combos because they are a major factor of combo depth. In many fighting games, if a combo/attack is blocked, the defending player is put in a prime position in knowing that once the attack concludes, a counter attack may be achieved. In Budokai, if the combo/attack is cancelled, another immediate attack may follow; keeping the defending player on the defensive. The measure of offensive control can be very impressive, depending on the player. Not to mention, there are other actions that may follow the cancelled attack that can lead into a variety of strategies. Ultimately, one cannot deny the depth that exists in Budokai anymore than they can deny the depth of Tenkaichi (at least 2 & 3). However, to argue with someone regarding their preference to one game over the other... it's just an opinion. You can shoot down their argument with every point they deliver, prove them wrong at every turn of what they believe they "know", but in the end... they are probably still going to prefer their own game, but they may just not feel as secure in talking about it.

It occurs to me that I'm basing my judgement towards Tenkaichi 2 around my biases towards the Raging Blast series, where I am perhaps wrongly assuming the extent of their similarities. I usually don't explicitly comment on the Tenkaichi series (bar the first) as I haven't an extensive memory from my days of playing it, however it was the possible inability of seeing a "to and fro", or in other words, good fight which led me to my immediate disregard. But I see this isn't Raging Blast, and there's a reason Tenkaichi 2 is seen (in gameplay terms) as the best of the Spike series. I found this fight enjoyable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwTPHHo ... 8B&index=3

From what I've come to understand, many of the traditional styled DBZ players tend to group all 3D gamers together; if it includes a 3D aspect to the game, it is Tenkaichi. I don't agree with this at all. When I see Raging Blast being played, I don't see Tenkaichi at all. I see Raging Blast. This could stem from my dedication to Tenkaichi and my knowledge prevents me from acknowledging a connection... but I can't help but see something completely different. Please excuse my referencing to board games again... but it would be like someone who plays cards looking at Checkers and Chess and believing they are played the same. They are both board games, of course. But a Checkers player who attempted to play Chess, or even watched Chess being played would say they are completely different. The way I see it, I think it just makes the argument easier to group everyone together, as long as no one stands up and refutes them.

I won't argue anymore regarding Tenkaichi 2's "depth", a word whose meaning DB forum-ing has only increasingly obscured for me; what does it actually mean for a fighting game to have such quality? I won't pretend to be a fighting game buff, I know a knowledgable guy who could give you a good debate regarding the whole discussion to do with depth in DB games compared to fighting games as a whole, but he no longer regulars forums nor did he ever use Kanzenshuu.

The definition of the word "depth" may seem a bit obscured now, especially when regarding DBZ games... but this has been a part of my argument. As games have changed/evolved, so has the understanding of the word. Factors of combat that held little to no significance are now shining through, and traditional players either discard such factors due to ignorance or simply have no way of measuring their depth. As for your friend, if anything changes, let me know. I'm always willing to listen to a new perspective and I'm open minded enough to acknowledge it when it holds merit.

After watching a few videos, it's clear to me Tenkaichi 2 has its worth in terms of technical mastery and a fighting game, however these things alone don't really do it for me unfortunately. Even though Tenkaichi 2 seems much better than I had currently thought, it still lacks in certain aspects to do with the DB experience. Yes I am still talking about gameplay. I still stand by my previous sentiment in other threads that Xenoverse has the potential to blow Tenkaichi/RB out of the scene, as long as its combat has fluidity; already I am taking note of DB-like elements in recent vids (not just flying and moving in 3D).This is probably the wrong place to talk about this though and we are moving on to a completely different topic. I admit though that Spike's recent titles has clouded my judgement of T2, however I still feel as though the game doesn't provide what I am looking for. Btw is it not possible for you to play against these other Tenkaichi 2 pros? Sounds like a wasted opportunity.

A lot of people will praise Tenkaichi for its DBZ experience. Tenkaichi 2 is known for its extensive story mode, as I've already mentioned. Would you find it odd that I don't care anything about the DBZ experience? I stopped watching the show years ago. Loved it when I was a kid, still watch a movie from time to time, but Tenkaichi 2 is the only DBZ related aspect of my life. I'm a console fighter, I always have been. I love fighting games in which it is skill vs skill and nothing else matters. It is how you've trained, your dedication, your understanding of combat vs what your opponent has to offer. I play T2 for the fighting aspect of the game, it just so happens that it is a DBZ game. They could have called it "Quarro 2: Hyper Platypus" and I would still play it just for combat quality. Still, if you ever do get back into Tenkaichi 2, let me know. You may see the basics of the game in a new light at this point, but when you get to see how the game is played on the advanced-elite level, you'd be surprised.

Xenoverse... I'm very excited. Everyone keeps talking about if it is going to be like Tenkaichi or Budokai or even a mix of both. That sounds great, but even if it's something new altogether, I'm sure it will turn out great. Of course, I could just be letting the hype get to me. It's coming out on XB360 so I'll see what it has to offer when it is released.

As far as playing against the other T2 pros... I've had people challenge me and then meet me for combat, but it still never measured up to anything. The only people I would want to play would be the other pros. Unfortunately, because T2 has no online (and I wouldn't trust online anyway due to lag), there's no way I could play Zoso9391 because he lives in Argentina, I live in the USA. Well, I'm sure there's a way, but I'm not going down there and I don't think he's got plans of coming up here. Shadow, I can't remember where he's from but I do remember him telling me and we decided it was too far a distance. If there were ever a tournament being held, I think people would be more inclined to travel the distance but even then, it would still be an issue due to my back problems. Of course, if I knew a tournament was being held, I would be saving for a plane ticket as that would be something I wouldn't want to miss. There was talk about a possible Tenkaichi 3 tournament that I was thinking of being a part of, possibly with commentary, but I don't think it's actually going to happen. Still... I don't feel that is is a wasted opportunity so much as an inaccessible opportunity. We've attempted to compete via performance quality, but that's still not 1v1 combat. He and I have had discussions on this before and to be honest, we both believe such a fight would be exactly what you desire. It would go back and forth, down to the wire, extremely tight, spastic aggression vs mechanical authority. When Zoso's turned up, no one can keep up with his pace, and his knowledge matches my own. When I'm turned up, my technique is absolute, the level of control is unparalleled. Truly a match for the ages.

Oh well... maybe one day.

[Hellspawn28]

Quick question, Can Capcom produce a DBZ game or is Bandai Namco only allowed to make DBZ games?

Capcom could make them and Namco could still publish them. Such has been done for the older Gundam vs Gundam games.

Capcom is going down the drain now, the last time I check that Capcom was hoping to be bought out by another Japanese company. I can see Namco Bandai buying Capcom.

[Quebaz]

From what I've come to understand, many of the traditional styled DBZ players tend to group all 3D gamers together; if it includes a 3D aspect to the game, it is Tenkaichi. I don't agree with this at all. When I see Raging Blast being played, I don't see Tenkaichi at all. I see Raging Blast. This could stem from my dedication to Tenkaichi and my knowledge prevents me from acknowledging a connection... but I can't help but see something completely different.

But of course people lump Tenkaichi and Raging Blast together, they're both made by Spike and the latter is a dumbed down version of the former, they share almost everything in terms of mechanics however made some alterations to the way buttons are mapped. People don't usually lump Tenkaichi/Raging Blast with Battle Of Z because it's obvious they have different gameplay mechanics.

Still, if you ever do get back into Tenkaichi 2, let me know. You may see the basics of the game in a new light at this point, but when you get to see how the game is played on the advanced-elite level, you'd be surprised.

May I ask why T2 is the superior Tenkaichi instead of Tenkaichi 3? Were any mechanics dumbed down or altered in some way that it made it worse? I don't have T2 with me, however going back to T3 and trying out some tecniques you do in your videos (like stoping a dash with the ascend/descend and some others you described on the tutorial) made the game actually pretty fun.

Capcom is going down the drain now, the last time I check that Capcom was hoping to be bought out by another Japanese company. I can see Namco Bandai buying Capcom.

I can see it as well, specially with their connections to other Bandai sectors like the Gundam games and more recently DIMPS (tho the latter is pretty much independent).

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

The conversation shouldnt be a debate between which is better, the question should be if its the direction of dumbing down the games and catering to the larger fans of the anime weakening the games in their content priority focus over us the gaming community more focused on the newer game's duriblity to critique. I think Namco is taking a poor focus with the favouritism they still believe is a cash cow and dont care enough to please a minority regardless of the cost in the end.

[ZeroAnnihilated]

But of course people lump Tenkaichi and Raging Blast together, they're both made by Spike and the latter is a dumbed down version of the former, they share almost everything in terms of mechanics however made some alterations to the way buttons are mapped. People don't usually lump Tenkaichi/Raging Blast with Battle Of Z because it's obvious they have different gameplay mechanics.

I guess my point is relating to the fact that I see just as much a difference in Tenkaichi vs RB as one might see in RB to BOZ. I can see why people would lump them together... but it is clear that some major differences are being ignored. One could only guess as to why, but I would imagine that it makes finger pointing easier.

May I ask why T2 is the superior Tenkaichi instead of Tenkaichi 3? Were any mechanics dumbed down or altered in some way that it made it worse? I don't have T2 with me, however going back to T3 and trying out some tecniques you do in your videos (like stoping a dash with the ascend/descend and some others you described on the tutorial) made the game actually pretty fun.

Meh, that would depend on what you mean by superior. In a sense, one would think a game is superior if it fits the style they are searching for. Some believe it would pertain to the game that possesses the most depth. Some believe it would pertain to the game that is presented on the more complex console, presenting better graphics, music, etc.

The truth is this. I know Tenkaichi 2 through and through, at least to what has been discovered thus far (because I either discovered it or pioneered techniques from others). Therefore, if someone attempts to bring an argument regarding the depth of Tenkaichi 2, I am more than able to counter. However, I am not a pro Tenkaichi 3 player. I know some advanced techniques, but I don't KNOW how the game works inside and out. I know it possesses a lot more depth than what most outside players would believe, but because T3 is built upon a different construct than Tenkaichi 2 (believe it or not), my understanding of Tenkaichi depth would only go so far regarding T3. T2 came out in 2006. I've been redefining Tenkaichi 2 comprehension for eight years now. However, as much as I know about Tenkaichi 2, I can't claim it to be superior to Tenkaichi 3 because I don't believe the true depth of Tenkaichi 3 has been brought to the surface yet. Even if it has, such comprehension is still founded upon Tenkaichi 3 game-play, which is different than that of Tenkaichi 2. All I can say is that Tenkaichi 2 and Tenkaichi 3 are both vastly underrated. I am only prepared to discuss one of them at length.

[TheSaiyanjin2]

Worst part is, Treevax has said multiple times that he doesn't care about the gameplay, but rather the graphics and content, and suprisingly, a TON of people (going by his FB group, people on youtube, and some people here) agree with him that content should be the priority.

He doesnt care about gameplay but thinks BOZ sucked. Seriously, where is his credibility? ... Treevax's sheets arent anything brand new either, he just wants everything left over from BT3 to return with a few extra thousand costumes we'll never have - and perfect layered cel-shading to stare at.

Honestly, this guy is not even a player, I'm in agreement with none of his ideas/sheets, which are actually very superficial, and then even non-existent in terms of gameplay. And damn, why to focus so much on the contents compared to the gameplay and quantity over quality? He didn't even understand that having such a bunch of clone character is boring much faster in the long term.

He and all his slaves make me sick, because of their selfishness and especially to see them certify that the fully-3D is the only way of retranscribing that universe, I even remember one of his comments in French where he said that "Budokai fitted better to DB et the fully-3D (Tenka-like) to DBZ"... Totally inconsistent lulz, although not that much for somebody completely uneducated at this point.

[VegettoEX]

Rather than personally attacking people, please focus your efforts on actually addressing points with constructive feedback and suggestions. Otherwise, you don't really have anything to add to the conversation.

[ZeroAnnihilated]

Who is Treevax?

[TheSaiyanjin2]

Who is Treevax?

A French fan who restores images of RB2 with photoshop and upload them on facebook, also he meets the producers of BNG once a year for an interview.