Are Tenkaichi fans ruining the franchise's progress?

[Black_Anime_Fan]

Because if it ain't 3D with a whopping 150 playable characters then it ain't DBZ right? But in all seriousness, the majority of the DBZ gaming community are easily by far one of the most fickle that I've ever seen, most notably with Tenkaichi fans, which leads me to ask, do you think it's those people who are hurting the growth of the franchise? My answer is yes, no doubt about it. I also think that Bandai should stop trying to cater to those who don't even realize that Tenkaichi 3 had predecessors, and instead move on and try to give us something new, and with Xenoverse that seems to be the case, yet I can't help but feel this is catering to the 3D fanboys. I understand that they tried to do so by giving us Ultimate Tenkaichi, but honestly, were you expecting anything better from Spike by the time 2011 was around? Leave your thoughts below.

[VegettoEX]

I don't know that there's any real indication that Bandai Namco actively listens to fans in the first place anyway when producing new games, so by extension I'm not sure that anyone's holding anything back.

I get the impression that they're pretty narrow-focused and just do whatever they want to do with the occasional bone thrown to fans to make it seem like they're listening.

And that's all neither a condemnation or approval of specific games and where it's all heading!

[FlpShimizu]

Even the Tenkaichi fans didn't get what they wanted last gen, so I don't think any Tenkaichi, Budokai, Super DBZ, Sagas, etc.. fan is guilty of what happened to our games. I honestly think the main problem isn't even the developer, Dimps and Spike made great games when they had time and support. Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 3 are different games but are commonly regarded as the best by both sets of fans. The main problem is that Namco Bandai, for reasons I'm not aware of, stopped giving them the support they had in the PS2 era. The time limitation was always there, sure, but the ideal in the last games was constantly changing, Burst Limit 2 could've been awesome, Raging Blast could've been awesome! But they just left those ideas behind and went a differente way, that is the main problem with the DBZ games in my opinion, the lack of continuity.

[budokaifanatic007]

I dont think its the Tenkaichi fans ,its just the ignorant fans who always ask for BT4/BT3 HD. Its nothing wrong with them wanting a BT4/BT3 HD collection its just the fans that shit on Budokai or 2D games, these are the narrow minded fans that get us nowhere. DBZ games need variety to keep people interested, I really dont see why The ignorant Tenkaichi fans ONLY want to play one type of game play smh. What we need is a cycle for example: 2015: 3D game,2017:RPG style game,2019:2D/2.5D game. This would please most fans if I'm not mistaken.

[Doctor.]

Fighting games are not getting the franchise anywhere. We have enough as it is. And frankly, if not for SSJG Goku, Beerus, Whis and the new characters in the new movies, I wouldn't want any more fighting games, because we already have great games for that genre. Budokai 3 & Burst Limit and Tenkaichi 3 & Raging Blast 2 suit the needs for 2D and 3D fans.

I would love a remake of the Legacy of Goku games.

[Hellspawn28]

Well we never got a sequel to Burst Limit despite the decent reviews and decent sales. The fans were very mixed on Burst Limit and I do remember a lot of people were asking for another Sparking game on the next gen systems at the time. So I think Namco Bandai does listen to the fans as they are the main buyers of the game. They want to make a game on what sells well.

[mysticboy]

There's fickleness on both sides of the DBZ fighting game camp. No one knows what they want. And even if everyone knew what they want, NB will not have time to implement everything.

[90sDBZ]

Well I think it's been the lack of NB wanting to make a real investment in recent years. In recent years they've been relying on gimmick after gimmick instead of deciding on a solid idea and having the faith to see it through with a good budget eg. UT, DBZ for Kinect and BoZ were all one offs with shallow gameplay. The fact that Dimps are back for Xenoverse is a surefire sign that they've finally at least taken fan input into consideration.

The thing is, the PS2 era was just that great that it was always going to be hard to live up to. Burst Limit I felt was a pretty solid game overall but really lacked in content. They didn't want to just make it a carbon copy of B3 and making it bigger and better than B3 early on in the gen would have been tough so they tried going for different rather than better. It was the same with RB really. BT3 did what it did really well and the roster was huge. There wasn't that much more they could have added to it so again they went for different rather than better. And then of course UT and BoZ were half-hearted experiments.

One of the things that got me the most hyped during the PS2 days was the introduction of NEW stuff. B3 was the first good game to include GT and movie characters, and it was the first good game to give us teleportation counters, real dodging, and the air pinball combo. The gameplay has yet to be bested. And the story mode was unique at the time. The BT/Sparking! trilogy gave us even more GT and movie characters and several DB characters who had never been in a console game before. And it gave us in game battle damage and lots of awesome costumes.

What firsts did the 7th gen DBZ games give us? A few of the less important characters who hadn't yet been included while also removing several of the better ones. A few new things were added to the gameplay while several old things got taken out. And uninspired custom character designs. The truth is the 7th gen games just lacked any real reason to get excited. Back in the PS2 days I used to be unable to think about anything else for months and I'd literally be dreaming about the games in excitement. I couldn't wait for October-December to come around because that would always be the time for an awesome new DBZ game. In recent years it just hasn't been a big deal to me.

[Saimaroimaru]

No, besides attacking one side of the db video game fanbase isn't gonna make these games any better. Just gonna start up a flame war.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I posted my opinion on this on another thread, but still emphasize the case that: yes they are the reason why the games never progress mechanically. Because they're casuals, which by itself doesn't make them inherently unwanted: its the mindset that they project and choose to argue about with hardcore players that makes these games worse and worse when giving Namco imput. Having debating with them before counteless times, I came to the conclusion that they don't care at all about gameplay unless the game itself is unplayable for everyone like UT. However on normal development occasions they are the ones that flood Namco with the long roster and stage sheets, and nothing else with that as a sole expectation. With roster to them, they can get so greedy that they would demand for characters that arent even fighters to be randomly placed in the games. (Ex. Dende) solely because he exists. Though that could just be the kids who only see DBZ games through roster. In regards to gameplay, the serious Tenkaichi fanboys are the ones that hold them back as they would argue against fact through bias preference and are the most inconsistent with their standards but when you ask them what would improve Tenkaichi 3 gameplay you get no solid answer. Walking on the ground, okay. Then what? Character diversity? Not likely. The thing that they never seem to understand is that a huge roster of clones will never have individuality. Its an oxymoron. It would be impossible to give characters who've never fought a special fighting style they never had. Its also too time constraining to with no garuntee that people would really use all of the characters offered, I sure didn't.

At its worst, the fact that I'd have to argue about gameplay with some people is a joke. All they side with is the free-flight and camera angle. It doesnt overweigh actual combo systems, depth and skill we on the other side demand and gimmicks BOZ tried dont help. Constantly dumbing down the games for them because they get bored of the 2D camera and space given to actually fight and not spam, is why even Dimps has to go 3D.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

There's fickleness on both sides of the DBZ fighting game camp. No one knows what they want. And even if everyone knew what they want, NB will not have time to implement everything.

No, they dont know what they want and are childishly inconsistent. Budokai fans want Budokai 4 / Burst limit 2 as is. BT fans are the ones that give abstract opinions and demand the same things over and over, only to complain about it when they get them over and over again. "Give me some thing new! - I want Raging Blast 3!" see how that doesnt work? "I want a long storymode - its the same thing over and over!" When they contradict themselves as much as they do, its basically a time loop for Spike having to waste their own time redoing everything people claimed not to want only for them to want it again then complain about it again later.
BT2 - Yay long storymode / Boring, (too long didnt play)
BT3 - WTF short storymode / no cutscenes.
RB1 - Yay long cutscenes / cutscenes, (too long didnt watch)
RB2 - I hate storymode / Why no storymode????
BOZ - Give us 4 player rumble / Game friggin sucks.

[Saimaroimaru]

There's fickleness on both sides of the DBZ fighting game camp. No one knows what they want. And even if everyone knew what they want, NB will not have time to implement everything.

No, they dont know what they want and are childishly inconsistent. Budokai fans want Budokai 4 / Burst limit 2 as is. BT fans are the ones that give abstract opinions and demand the same things over and over, only to complain about it when they get them over and over again. "Give me some thing new! - I want Raging Blast 3!" see how that doesnt work? "I want a long storymode - its the same thing over and over!" When they contradict themselves as much as they do, its basically a time loop for Spike having to waste their own time redoing everything people claimed not to want only for them to want it again then complain about it again later.
BT2 - Yay long storymode / Boring, (too long didnt play)
BT3 - WTF short storymode / no cutscenes.
RB1 - Yay long cutscenes / cutscenes, (too long didnt watch)
RB2 - I hate storymode / Why no storymode????
BOZ - Give us 4 player rumble / Game friggin sucks.

No, besides attacking one side of the db video game fanbase isn't gonna make these games any better. Just gonna start up a flame war.

A flame war with them is inevitable when you mention wanting a burst limit 2. The only reason they dont like it is because of cut storymode. Screw gameplay.

Gameplay brought back memories of B2(my fav DBZ game of all time). As for cut scenes, eh. Either do them all the way or not at all. Ironically I liked RB2. I felt that the RB franchise got the Naruto cancellation effect. Many people at the time of Ultimate Ninja 3 and 4 were saying to skip out on buying 4 and wait on 5 not knowing that 5 being released was based on 4's sales. The result was no ultimate ninja 5 release for NA. The same goes for RB3. I have seen posts as early as when RB1 was coming out of people saying wait until RB3. The result was RB3 being cancelled for what would become Ultimate Tenkaichi and that Kinect game.

I suspect the sales of the Kinect game and BOZ is what prompted them to bring back Dimps, who after all established the modern day DBZ fighting game fanbase(with Spike splitting it).

Edit: Now I remember why. Burst Lmit sales were being compared to BT3.

[EXBadguy]

Yes, they are, but I don't think their the only ones that are the problem. So I'm just gonna say this flat out.

BOTH OF THE BUDOKAI AND TENKAICHI FANBASES ARE THE BLAME

Seriously, why the hell does the Tenkaichi fanbase have to get more attention and wanting more characters? Do they care about the substance the game would sacrifice? What about other games and genre? Why the hell the Budokai/EVO fanbase have to be all obnoxious and rude JUST because there's no DBZ game at EVO or somebody prefers the Tenkaichi games over the Budokai games? The hell is wrong with yall? I was on their side about making a competitive DBZ game for EVO, but IDGAF anymore. It's not gonna happen, alright? If you want a competitive game, go freaking play Super DBZ or other games like Tekken or Street Fighter. I don't wanna hear it anymore.

Despite Xenoverse looking good so far, If Namco ask me what type of game I'd want, I wanna see a Z or Heroes action-adventure/Hack N Slash game series. And DON'T tell me it would not work. Sagas was almost close to have a perfect one and if BoZ was that, it would've been almost successful, so I see potential on that. So yeah, either do that or just drop the liscense. Dafuq it gotta be about fighting all the time?

[Quebaz]

Yes, they are, but I don't think their the only ones that are the problem. So I'm just gonna say this flat out.

BOTH OF THE BUDOKAI AND TENKAICHI FANBASES ARE THE BLAME

Seriously, why the hell does the Tenkaichi fanbase have to get more attention and wanting more characters? Do they care about the substance the game would sacrifice? What about other games and genre? Why the hell the Budokai/EVO fanbase have to be all obnoxious and rude JUST because there's no DBZ game at EVO or somebody prefers the Tenkaichi games over the Budokai games? The hell is wrong with yall? I was on their side about making a competitive DBZ game for EVO, but IDGAF anymore. It's not gonna happen, alright? If you want a competitive game, go freaking play Super DBZ or other games like Tekken or Street Fighter. I don't wanna hear it anymore.

Because playing a older game with no online alone is so fun right? Because playing games from other franchises instead of the one we want is amazing and supports the franchise right? I mean, I kinda agree with you, in that both sides can be rude and all that but your attitude wasnt/isn't the best either. Budokai/FG fans aren't not only mad because there's no true fighting game, but because Scamco decides no to bring back the Budokai franchise (even with another name) despite being proven it sold better than the Tenkaichi/Blast games and YET it brings back DiMPS to satisfy the 3D fans.

Despite Xenoverse looking good so far, If Namco ask me what type of game I'd want, I wanna see a Z or Heroes action-adventure/Hack N Slash game series. And DON'T tell me it would not work. Sagas was almost close to have a perfect one and if BoZ was that, it would've been almost successful, so I see potential on that. So yeah, either do that or just drop the liscense. Dafuq it gotta be about fighting all the time?

Well if you want an Hack N Slash game you can go play Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Rising right? Why do we have to hear your opinion? (PS: using sarcasm)

Ahem.
In response to the topic title, I don't belive that the fanbase is at fault, but rather Namco doesn't know what to do anymore, they made a game called Ultimate Tenkaichi and hoped no one would mind it not having Tenkaichi gameplay. They then proceeded to hire Ardtink to make a 3D arena brawler with RPG elements while marketing as a fighting game("8 MAN MULTIPLAYER" anyone?), making some wierd roster choices and lack of modes. And now there's the whole DiMPS making a 3D despite them working on the 2D games and already having a fanbase. There's some other things like Namco not porting Zenkai Battle Royale because "it's the same thing as the arcade version" despite them porting both versions of Gundam Extreme VS, which is essentialy the same style, but the problem really stands that Namco while trying their best to gather sales, they don't know what to do anymore.

[EXBadguy]

Yes, they are, but I don't think their the only ones that are the problem. So I'm just gonna say this flat out.

BOTH OF THE BUDOKAI AND TENKAICHI FANBASES ARE THE BLAME

Seriously, why the hell does the Tenkaichi fanbase have to get more attention and wanting more characters? Do they care about the substance the game would sacrifice? What about other games and genre? Why the hell the Budokai/EVO fanbase have to be all obnoxious and rude JUST because there's no DBZ game at EVO or somebody prefers the Tenkaichi games over the Budokai games? The hell is wrong with yall? I was on their side about making a competitive DBZ game for EVO, but IDGAF anymore. It's not gonna happen, alright? If you want a competitive game, go freaking play Super DBZ or other games like Tekken or Street Fighter. I don't wanna hear it anymore.

Because playing a older game with no online alone is so fun right? Because playing games from other franchises instead of the one we want is amazing and supports the franchise right? I mean, I kinda agree with you, in that both sides can be rude and all that but your attitude wasnt/isn't the best either. Budokai/FG fans aren't not only mad because there's no true fighting game, but because Scamco decides no to bring back the Budokai franchise (even with another name) despite being proven it sold better than the Tenkaichi/Blast games and YET it brings back DiMPS to satisfy the 3D fans.

My bad for the attitude but this is getting out of line with both of them. I don't care if we're getting more Tenkaichis than Budokai, if we're not getting another Budokai ever again, then move on. If we're not getting a Raging Blast game ever again, then move. on! That's what I'm trying to say. No need to make any petitions to get a game. No need to bash somebody just because they prefer Tenkaichi over Budokai or any 2-D fighter. Heck, I think that both the Budokai series and Tenkaichi series are getting played out. The thing about Xenoverse is that it's looks like Tenkaichi, but DOESN'T play like Tenkaichi, check it yourself that none of the characters have generic 5-hit combos and the effect after a generic 5 hit combo. That's one of the things I like most about the game. If it wasn't like that AND didn't have DBO elements, I wouldn't have been excited.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Yes, they are, but I don't think their the only ones that are the problem. So I'm just gonna say this flat out.

BOTH OF THE BUDOKAI AND TENKAICHI FANBASES ARE THE BLAME

Seriously, why the hell does the Tenkaichi fanbase have to get more attention and wanting more characters? Do they care about the substance the game would sacrifice? What about other games and genre? Why the hell the Budokai/EVO fanbase have to be all obnoxious and rude JUST because there's no DBZ game at EVO or somebody prefers the Tenkaichi games over the Budokai games? The hell is wrong with yall? I was on their side about making a competitive DBZ game for EVO, but IDGAF anymore. It's not gonna happen, alright? If you want a competitive game, go freaking play Super DBZ or other games like Tekken or Street Fighter. I don't wanna hear it anymore.

Thats not the point being made here. You also act as if people prefer Tenkaichi objectively based on quality. Thats not it. People like Tenkaichi because its easy to play, mash friendly, and has more characters.
Budokai fans arent the obnoxious ones here, its rightful frustration from what Dimps is being forced to do catering to them even after Spike was released. Its been almost 6 years since we got a Burst limit sequel that was clearly intended, yet they had to waste money trying to win back the begging BT fanbase because of their stubborness seems to speak volumes. Even now. If they were going to make yet another shitty 3D game, they might as well have lept Artdink. I mean its not as if Budokai was a failure, they were the most succesful DBZ games of all time and Namco just throws it away. They have the oldest following and community, they are ignored in favour of the new-casuals that seem to have priority privileges just because they refuse to play anything else.

Despite Xenoverse looking good so far, If Namco ask me what type of game I'd want, I wanna see a Z or Heroes action-adventure/Hack N Slash game series. And DON'T tell me it would not work. Sagas was almost close to have a perfect one and if BoZ was that, it would've been almost successful, so I see potential on that. So yeah, either do that or just drop the liscense. Dafuq it gotta be about fighting all the time?

Thats not what people are saying, I'd love a DB universe action RPG but not at the chance the combat system will be generic. Because it wouldnt be a fight game, thats a greater chance, they might as well do both here with the 3D games, but not class them as the same thing as Budokai for everything else.

[goku the krump dancer]

No it was the companies doing what they want that was ruining the franchise, the fans in general were complaining and not being specific on what they wanted exactly but even then, everyone wants something just a little bit different from the next guy even if they're on the same "side", so we're kinda to blame too.

You can't just assume that Tenkaichi supporters were just casual fans of the show, I consider myself an elite DBZ fan much like everyone else on this forum and I loved the Sparking! games (as well as Budokai).

Funny thing is if you ask the "casual" DB fans what was the last game they played, they would most likely say Budokai 2 or 3. By the time we hit Super DBZ and Tenkaichi 2 most of the "casual fans" had dipped off and it was only us hardcore guys that stuck around since then.

Some of you are judging XenoVerse waaay too prematurely, yeah it has full 3D environments but from what I've read so far it going to have the same Budokai fundamentals I.E a Punch button and a Kick button etc. DIMPS seems to be combining the best of both worlds with this game and frankly I think thats the best way to go, hell I even remember some fans preferring that they combine the two some years back so we'll just have to wait and see. Shit even Super DBZ had Full 3D environments… the characters just weren't that mobile.

[ZeroAnnihilated]

You also act as if people prefer Tenkaichi objectively based on quality. Thats not it. People like Tenkaichi because its easy to play, mash friendly, and has more characters.

You know, you guys are gonna get me banned one of these days. To be honest, at this point, I really hope every DBZ game from here on out is exactly like Tenkaichi... just so I can keep reading the anger and agony. Haha... Anger and Agony. We'll have AA meetings every Wednesday. lol!

Seriously though, the arguments between the Budokai and Tenkaichi community has been going on forever. It is unfortunate that I never had the privilege of being a part of one as I actually do have answers to your silly questions... but in all honesty, I think you're missing the point (a point that people touch down upon at least once in these arguments). There has yet to be another gaming sequel like Tenkaichi since Tenkaichi 3. It really doesn't matter what the true Tenkaichists want simply because we're not being listened to either. Budokai had its run, Tenkaichi had its run. If future games are going to relate to an offbrand of 3d game-play, then that's simply the direction it's going... but we have to stop with all this finger pointing and comparative downplaying of gaming counterparts. I won't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of Tenkaichi players that still hold respect for the Budokai community and all that has been uncovered regarding depth and skill. It's easy to recognize the depth and skill because the Budokai games are closely based on the traditional sense of skill and depth. What always catches me off guard, is when people who seem intelligent and somewhat game-knowledgeable regarding DBZ decide to discard any probability of depth potential within the evolutionary scale of DBZ combat games. Again, I can only speak on Tenkaichi, but I've said it before regarding general fight games. Just because you don't indulge in a particular game (especially to the elite level) doesn't mean it's lacking.

Re-referencing for my point... SSBM was once ignored by the traditional gamers regarding skill requirement and technical depth. Wasn't even created to be considered for competitive level game-play. It was the dedicated SSBM players who proved the true value of the game (not Street Fighter, Tekken, or even Budokai players).

Also, I agree, this is only a reason to start a flame war. The DBZ gaming community definitely holds differences therein, but that's how all gaming communities are. You think this is bad? Have you ever tried the Halo forums? Ultimately, you can try to push the blame on whomever you wish, but it won't get you anywhere. If it was the fault of the Tenkaichi fans, that would mean people like me have been listened to and taken seriously by the game developers. I don't know about you guys, but I haven't felt listened to in quite a while.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You also act as if people prefer Tenkaichi objectively based on quality. Thats not it. People like Tenkaichi because its easy to play, mash friendly, and has more characters.

You know, you guys are gonna get me banned one of these days. To be honest, at this point, I really hope every DBZ game from here on out is exactly like Tenkaichi... just so I can keep reading the anger and agony. Haha... Anger and Agony. We'll have AA meetings every Wednesday. lol!

It wont be a flamewar if you know your facts enough not to resort certify them with bias. Its comparitive, one game offers progressively more than the other and one fanbase happens to care about nothing productive. Its not abstract, you're just getting worked up over nothing. What is there to rage about? If a tenkaichi fan cant prove its depth over Budokai then theres nothing to argue. Most budokai fans have played and dropped it at some point, most Tenkaichi fans have just played BT2 - RB.

No it was the companies doing what they want that was ruining the franchise, the fans in general were complaining and not being specific on what they wanted exactly but even then, everyone wants something just a little bit different from the next guy even if they're on the same "side", so we're kinda to blame too.

They do what they want to try and please the constant complainers rather than appease the ones who actually have a production theory. Most of the complaints is usually surrounding why all the games don't play like Tenkaichi or roster. Proof, listen to Xenoverse's early advertisement and what they claim the game will have, everything the Tenkaichi fans had been complaining about not having. They have yet to tell the other side who expect solid gameplay for once what of it we'd be getting. Its great P & K are finally divided again but nothing else really.

You can't just assume that Tenkaichi supporters were just casual fans of the show, I consider myself an elite DBZ fan much like everyone else on this forum and I loved the Sparking! games (as well as Budokai).

Funny thing is if you ask the "casual" DB fans what was the last game they played, they would most likely say Budokai 2 or 3. By the time we hit Super DBZ and Tenkaichi 2 most of the "casual fans" had dipped off and it was only us hardcore guys that stuck around since then.

No. Most would say they last played BOZ, and then remind us that BT3 is the best game of all time. All the Xenoverse vids have at least 10 comments somewhere that have this phrased.

[Doctor.]

Budokai fans arent the obnoxious ones here, its rightful frustration from what Dimps is being forced to do catering to them even after Spike was released.

Aren't yourself being bias right here? You know, you being a Budokai/DIMPs fan an' all.

From personal experience, both fanbases are equally terrible.