Funimation should make its own soundtrack for Kai

[fadeddreams5]

On the plus side, it gave and continues to give American viewers exposure to the original DBZ score (Nicktoons/CW/Toonzai/Toonami and online) with Kai and the recent movie airings.

I don't think that's a plus side. From personal experience, it's put off a lot of people from the series (Kai)... including myself. Kikuchi soundtrack is more of an acquired taste in America. =P

[dbboxkaifan]

And the more people grow to appreciate the Kikuchi score, the better IMO.

Except if they felt like the BGMs they heard were far too limited and repetitive then it gave nothing more than bad reputation to the original Kikuchi score. As well that the music feels from the 80's and 90's while Kai was meant to be a modern cinematic experience.

[ABED]

But it's not cinema, nor does cinematic axiomatically mean better than TV.

Except if they felt like the BGMs they heard were far too limited and repetitive

I don't think it's anymore repetitive than DBZ's.

I have no numbers but I'm guess that to most of the people that watch the show, whatever the soundtrack is, that's the soundtrack to them. Kikuchi's score fits the show, it's not dated, it's timeless.

From personal experience, it's put off a lot of people from the series (Kai)... including myself. Kikuchi soundtrack is more of an acquired taste in America. =P

Were these people who had seen only Kai, not Z?

[voltlunok]

Don't wanna pay out money for stuff they don't have to.

I think a similar argument was used as one of the reasons why they didn't want to use the original score back when they first began dubbing DB and DBZ.

Part of me wants to believe it wasn't that they didn't want to pay for the original music and more that they didn't have the money to. But then another part argues 'Well then why did they pay Faulconer to make new music?' so the question is, which was cheaper? Creating a whole new score or buying the rights to the original? I honestly don't know so if anyone can answer this I'm very interested.

[fadeddreams5]

Were these people who had seen only Kai, not Z?

Some, yeah. My nephew, in particular, was pretty indifferent over kai, but had a change of heart after seeing funi's DBZ. Same scenes. Mentioned nothing about the music, but that was pretty much the only difference. Doubt a third grader would put much emphasis on dialogue. =P

[TheBlackPaladin]

Don't wanna pay out money for stuff they don't have to.

I think a similar argument was used as one of the reasons why they didn't want to use the original score back when they first began dubbing DB and DBZ.

Part of me wants to believe it wasn't that they didn't want to pay for the original music and more that they didn't have the money to. But then another part argues 'Well then why did they pay Faulconer to make new music?' so the question is, which was cheaper? Creating a whole new score or buying the rights to the original? I honestly don't know so if anyone can answer this I'm very interested.

I can! Here's the (very surprising) answer: it's cheaper--or, at the very least, more profitable--to make a new score than to license the existing one.

Pretty surprising, huh? When I first learned that I was like, "....Wai--wha?" But it is the case.

As it turns out, the music isn't a free bonus item when an anime is licensed and dubbed. It is paid for separately. This applies to both the original music and whatever replacement scores there might be. As such, some dubbing companies actually stand to financially gain from having their replacement score licensed and published.

4Kids, for example, typically bought the international distribution rights (outside of Asia) for all of the shows they licensed. So, for most of their shows, most of the international dubs were based on their version--featuring their pre-edited footage, revised scripts, and replacement scores. Of course, I'd be shocked if the original Japanese studios weren't at least getting a cut of those deals, but whether they were or not, 4Kids definitely was. An anonymous 4Kids employee had an interview on Reddit in which he admitted that, while the original Japanese studios had a degree of creative input as to what the replacement scores would sound like, the primary reason for creating new scores was to financially gain from the replacement scores being licensed and published. Saban did this a lot too. They'd make a ton of money just from re-licensing their edited versions to other countries, and as I said, that included the music.

As it relates to DBZ, FUNimation CEO Gen Fukunaga said in an interview that they could charge royalties for every second of their replacement score. Quite frankly, that explanation makes a lot more sense than some of the other excuses I've heard. It wasn't so much about kids "not being able to handle/understand/like" the original score, it was more about having another revenue stream. Creatively, I would say that didn't make much sense, but from the business perspective of a company that originally didn't have that much money, that move actually made a lot of sense.

[voltlunok]

Ah thanks a lot! I had a hunch producing their own was cheaper but I wasn't entirely sure. The answer does also shed some light on things in some Faulconer interviews I've read about how the creative side of the Z dub was mixed about his music while the business side loved it!

[Kakacarrottop]

On the plus side, it gave and continues to give American viewers exposure to the original DBZ score (Nicktoons/CW/Toonzai/Toonami and online) with Kai and the recent movie airings.

I don't think that's a plus side. From personal experience, it's put off a lot of people from the series (Kai)... including myself. Kikuchi soundtrack is more of an acquired taste in America. =P

So is the Shuki Levy score, the Faulconer score (from a Japanese perspective) etc etc. The Kikuchi score in a musical sense is far more accessible than any replacement score. People just don't really like it in the West since it just feels so... old and dated (for an action show at least).

[ABED]

So is the Shuki Levy score, the Faulconer score (from a Japanese perspective) etc etc. The Kikuchi score in a musical sense is far more accessible than any replacement score. People just don't really like it in the West since it just feels so... old and dated (for an action show at least).

What's your basis for stating it's not generally liked in the West? That's a difficult statement to make with any degree of certainty especially with nostalgia being such a powerful force.

Some, yeah. My nephew, in particular, was pretty indifferent over kai, but had a change of heart after seeing funi's DBZ. Same scenes. Mentioned nothing about the music, but that was pretty much the only difference. Doubt a third grader would put much emphasis on dialogue. =P

No, looking back I didn't really care that much about dialog as much as I did the action. Still, there were a number of times watching Power Rangers that I cringed at some of the more egregiously badly written lines.

[Kakacarrottop]

So is the Shuki Levy score, the Faulconer score (from a Japanese perspective) etc etc. The Kikuchi score in a musical sense is far more accessible than any replacement score. People just don't really like it in the West since it just feels so... old and dated (for an action show at least).

What's your basis for stating it's not generally liked in the West? That's a difficult statement to make with any degree of certainty especially with nostalgia being such a powerful force.

Kai's FUNi dub. Generally only the more hardcore anime fans tend to prefer the original music since well..it's from Japan not America!, as opposed to the more casual fans who prefer replacement music. Not saying this is true just what i've seen from personal experience.

[ABED]

So is the Shuki Levy score, the Faulconer score (from a Japanese perspective) etc etc. The Kikuchi score in a musical sense is far more accessible than any replacement score. People just don't really like it in the West since it just feels so... old and dated (for an action show at least).

What's your basis for stating it's not generally liked in the West? That's a difficult statement to make with any degree of certainty especially with nostalgia being such a powerful force.

Kai's FUNi dub. Generally only the more hardcore anime fans tend to prefer the original music since well..it's from Japan not America!, as opposed to the more casual fans who prefer replacement music. Not saying this is true just what i've seen from personal experience.

Which replacement music?

[Kakacarrottop]

Which replacement music?

Any really, but mainly Team Faulconer since they had the honour of composing replacement music (that was good) for half of DBZ when it was huge in the west.

[ABED]

Which replacement music?

Any really, but mainly Team Faulconer since they had the honour of composing replacement music (that was good) for half of DBZ when it was huge in the west.

The people who say that generally grew up with the replacement score. We clearly differ in our assessment of the score. The show was an overwhelming success regardless of who scored it. The show became a success before Faulconer's score was ever heard. Did you listen to the acting and dialog during those seasons? If that wasn't enough to drive people away, then nothing is, and the music isn't going to keep them. What made the show a resounding success was the action.

[Kakacarrottop]

Which replacement music?

Any really, but mainly Team Faulconer since they had the honour of composing replacement music (that was good) for half of DBZ when it was huge in the west.

The people who say that generally grew up with the replacement score

And the people who say that are generally anti-American and pro anything Japan

[ABED]

And the people who say that are generally anti-American and pro anything Japan

I've met some of those types, but that's not been my experience by and large. Many that don't care for the replacement score just don't like the music, or don't think it fits, or simply prefer the original score. I for one don't like Faulconer's score, and think Kikuchi's captures the tone of DB.

There are snotty people on both sides.

[MagicBox]

What's your basis for stating it's not generally liked in the West?

Kai's FUNi dub.

Those complaints are filed against Yukio Nagasaki (the show's audio director) and his placement of the music, not the music itself.

I happen to think those complaints are just a liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit exaggerated, but that's neither here nor there.

Generally only the more hardcore anime fans tend to prefer the original music since well..it's from Japan not America!, as opposed to the more casual fans who prefer replacement music. And the people who say that are generally anti-American and pro anything Japan.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're even trying to say anymore. Americans "generally" prefer replacement music in their shows because of the fact that it's replacing something? And people who prefer the original music "generally" have a vendetta against America? You're basically a step or two away from throwing around words like "weeaboo." I'm seeing generalization after generalization with little basis or context. I can't even figure out if you're talking about Dragon Ball specifically or anime in general or television as a whole.

[dbboxkaifan]

But it's not cinema, nor does cinematic axiomatically mean better than TV.

The whole purpose of Kai was to make it feel fresh, new and modern but given that they went backwards to use a VERY limited portion of DBZ's original score it hardly made Kai any different from Z from what it once was.

I don't think it's anymore repetitive than DBZ's.

DBZ had a lot more variety than Kaikuchi ever did, and that's not even up for debate.

[EXBadguy]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're even trying to say anymore. Americans "generally" prefer replacement music in their shows because of the fact that it's replacing something? And people who prefer the original music "generally" have a vendetta against America? You're basically a step or two away from throwing around words like "weeaboo." I'm seeing generalization after generalization with little basis or context. I can't even figure out if you're talking about Dragon Ball specifically or anime in general or television as a whole.

Even if he was generalizing, if it doesn't pertain to you, then why get offended by it?

Anyway, I find it funny when some people get offended when the people at Funimation dubbed the Japanese openings, saying they need to "RESPECT THEIR CULTYAH!" but when it's the other way around, it's a masterpiece and better than the original version. Like for example, english dubbed Dragon Soul=HORRID, Japanese dubbed Eye of the Tiger= GODLIKE! And besides did Toei really had a problem with Funimation replacing Kikuchi back then?

[Kakacarrottop]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're even trying to say anymore. Americans "generally" prefer replacement music in their shows because of the fact that it's replacing something? And people who prefer the original music "generally" have a vendetta against America? You're basically a step or two away from throwing around words like "weeaboo." I'm seeing generalization after generalization with little basis or context. I can't even figure out if you're talking about Dragon Ball specifically or anime in general or television as a whole.

Even if he was generalizing, if it doesn't pertain to you, then why get offended by it?

Anyway, I find it funny when some people get offended when the people at Funimation dubbed the Japanese openings, saying they need to "RESPECT THEIR CULTYAH!" but when it's the other way around, it's a masterpiece and better than the original version. Like for example, english dubbed Dragon Soul=HORRID, Japanese dubbed Eye of the Tiger= GODLIKE! And besides did Toei really had a problem with Funimation replacing Kikuchi back then?

According to a site called "Dragon Ball Z Uncut" (which chronicles the series early days in the west) FUNi only really replaced the music because they were a new company that needed the money they could stand to earn from music licensing fees (they couldn't even make their own music so they outsourced the role to musician(s) from Saban who were also funding everything). The Japanese rights holders i can only assume didn't care one bit since all they probably saw was dollar signs.

[MagicBox]

Even if he was generalizing, if it doesn't pertain to you, then why get offended by it?

I don't recall ever getting offended. I think I very clearly spelled it out in my previous post that I didn't understand what he was saying, that I didn't understand what he was referring to when he was saying it, and that I didn't think the points he was trying to make were very clear. Which gets in the way of having a productive forum discussion.