Question about Toei's marketing motives

[Super SaiyaJon]

Are you really trying to argue that the Ginyu Force wasn't at least partially humorous? The bad guys have been trying to murder the good guys in this series since day 1. I don't understand how that makes the show "dark". Most every children's action cartoon runs on that premise.

No, I recognize the humor present in the Ginyu Force. Also, I did not claim that the actions I mentioned make the show more "dark." I'm just sick of everyone visualizing the Ginyu force as a comedy troope whenever the topic of "seriousness" pops up. They aren't jokesters, they are a threat with sprinkles of gag.

[Akumaito Beam]

No, I recognize the humor present in the Ginyu Force. Also, I did not claim that the actions I mentioned make the show more "dark." I'm just sick of everyone visualizing the Ginyu force as a comedy troope whenever the topic of "seriousness" pops up. They aren't jokesters, they are a threat with sprinkles of gag.

I agree with you, they aren't there solely for comedy's sake. We're on the same page.

[Super SaiyaJon]

Well that's a relief. It's getting late, so I didn't want to get sucked into the conversation too much

Of course, I also feel the same about Buu. I never got the "comedy" vibe from him, more like the "irony" vibe. Not to mention the "psychopathic, murderous, soulless monster" vibe.

[Rocketman]

People have tried to argue that Buu slaughtering all of humanity is a gag.

So I must assume they are sociopaths.

[Akumaito Beam]

Well that's a relief. It's getting late, so I didn't want to get sucked into the conversation too much

Of course, I also feel the same about Buu. I never got the "comedy" vibe from him, more like the "irony" vibe. Not to mention the "psychopathic, murderous, soulless monster" vibe.

Toriyama knows how to blend humor and action together incredibly well. I do think the fact that this fat hyper active demon toddler was effortlessly smacking around the people who destroyed the most powerful tyrant in space and the embodiment of perfectness was supposed to be a joke on some level but I do believe he was supposed to pose a legitimate daunting threat at the same time. I actually find Boo's fat and kid forms some of the most interesting villains in the series.

[Super SaiyaJon]

I do think the fact that this fat hyper active demon toddler was effortlessly smacking around the people who destroyed the most powerful tyrant in space and the embodiment of perfectness was supposed to be a joke on some level but I do believe he was supposed to pose a legitimate daunting threat at the same time. I actually find Boo's fat and kid forms some of the most interesting villains in the series.

I might have found it a bit more humorous if Buu didn't do a ton of messed up shit, like turning entire populations into chocolate and eating them. Or just outright exterminating the human race just to be a smartass toward Piccolo.

I do agree with you on finding Buu one of the most interesting villains. I just wish his backstory was a bit more fleshed out.

[theoriginalbilis]

Except there's basically nothing lighthearted about the Saiyan/Namek/Android/Cell arcs, sure.

I don't get why people wanna pretend like Dragonball is a big ol' hugbox.

Yet again, Rocketman, you never fail to amuse me, and you never cease to keep the conversations interesting.

I agree with you that the Saiyan-Cell arcs were mostly life-or-death combat/drama-focused and the most serious the series ever got. But it's not like it was completely devoid of comedic or light-hearted moments. Especially in the anime, there were scenes or character interactions that broke up the more dramatic scenes. But if you look the majority of the anime (DB/Z) or manga (DragonBall) and look at how it's marketed or how public reception is to DB/Z, they see it as a "fun" show that they grew up on. Especially in Japan.

The atmosphere and overall tone of the series' evokes positive feelings and memories in it's fans. Yes, it's mostly combat and action, but it has an overall upbeat and optimistic tone even when it's at it's darkest. You want to see those characters continue on, through battles, adventures, or even their daily lives. That's where this insistence that DB is a positive and lighter-toned series comes from. It's not like the Devilman manga/OVAs where the entire story is violent and bleak, and there's basically no hope for any of the characters. Though I enjoy that series too...

Just for the record, I think the franchise works best when it's a balance of the lighter and darker elements. That's why the King Piccolo through the Cell arc is my favorite stretch of DragonBall. Just enough fighting and combat to keep the stakes interesting, but just enough levity is included as to not make things overbearing.

[Rocketman]

So it's mostly the same imaginary bullshit that makes people think of Goku as a good father figure.

[theoriginalbilis]

So it's mostly the same imaginary bullshit that makes people think of Goku as a good father figure.

Maybe. Though me thinks that has a lot to do with the FUNimation dub as well.

[Kid Buu]

The old Funimation dub had characters who would mock Goku as a dad actually.

[DBZAOTA482]

The old Funimation dub had characters who would mock Goku as a dad actually.

So did the original.

[Kid Buu]

It did? When?

[DBZAOTA482]

It did? When?

Nappa called Gohan's "old man" cold for not being around, Shu-sai'aku blamed Goku for Gohan "repelling" and kept talking shit about him to Gohan's face (not as much as the dub though), and Cell kept saying how Goku's decision to have Gohan fight him was stupid.

Piccolo even shouting at him for making Gohan fight Cell and gave him an eye-opening lashing.

[Gyt Kaliba]

What I'm not understanding here is...why does it have to be one or the other? From where I sit, what makes Dragon Ball so much fun is the combination of both of those things, the serious stuff and the goofy stuff. Dragon Ball manages to do both so well intertwined with each other, without ever going too far in either direction. It manages to be humor-filled, it rarely misses the opportunity for a joke, but it doesn't go the way of Dr. Slump or Looney Tunes or what have you. It manages to be action-filled, and keep things serious when it needs to be serious, but it never turns into Berserk, or...I dunno, Blade Runner.

In fact, that's part of the appeal of most shonen in general, at least for me. Dragon Ball in particular does it really, really well however.

[MagicBox]

While there are indeed many artists/directors/producers who are passionate about their work, television in general is produced to make money. The more people Toei can get to watch their show, the better. Young, old, it doesn't matter. If you watch it, they're happy. Don't be ashamed. It's not for kids. It's not for adults. It's for anyone who will watch it and give us ratings/money.

A lot of money just so happens to come from merchandise sales, and companies know that children are the absolute BEST demographic for that. They want everything. Gimme gimme gimme. It's why there's such an emphasis on appealing to children. It was the same in the 80s and 90s when the original shows were airing. It's the same with any family-friendly company. Disney knows that everybody, regardless of age, loves their films. Every demographic is important to them. But children bring in the big money. You've got to go after the young, impressionable ones. It's just business. If you had to stop liking something just because the highest target demographic is children, you wouldn't be allowed to like ANYTHING cool.

Dragon Ball has lighthearted moments. It has dark moments. It can get violent. Sometimes it's surprising how violent it did get. When something's popular, the creators are usually allowed to take some risks. That doesn't mean Dragon Ball's not still a family show. The Hell's Angels fit perfectly in a universe where a pet monkey named Bubbles exists. They were never out of place. It doesn't mean the show still can't get serious. The series just has a wide emotional spectrum. Comedy works. Drama works. It's a good thing. This constant insistence that everything look "mature" is one of the most childish things to do.

[90sDBZ]

I can see were the OP is coming from here. I will say that although I loved BoG overall I found the Pilaf stuff a bit TOO childish and out of place. I had absolutely no problem with Pilaf and his gang before this. I thought they were always really funny in DB and enjoyed seeing them again in GT. I was even looking forward to seeing them in BoG, but ended up not liking how they were handled in it. The rest of the movie was great, but the stuff with Pilaf and co. running around Bulma's house stuck out like a sore thumb.

Yes Dragonball is aimed at kids. But it was already a great kids show as it was without lowering the target audience further. I'm fine with it focusing on comedy and being upbeat, but putting stuff in there for toddlers sort of clashes with the more serious side of it. Take BoG for example. The serious/action scenes still felt like the same good old Dragonball. And some of the comedy scenes like Vegeta's antics also worked really well. But others like the ones I've already mentioned felt like they were going out of there way to reach an even younger audience.

It's almost like they're going in a similar direction to Pokemon, which focuses even more on its younger audience and less on the importance of the greater story in recent years.

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

[jjgp1112]

Where's this big bad magic land where people "in the real world" look down on you for watching Dragon Ball? When I was in high school, shit even college, whenever Dragon Ball would randomly come up in a class, it'd lead to an extremely long conversation among a bunch of people reminiscing about how awesome it was. Usually girls would roll their eyes but there were quite a few who would join in, too.

[Kid Buu]

It did? When?

Nappa called Gohan's "old man" cold for not being around, Shu-sai'aku blamed Goku for Gohan "repelling" and kept talking shit about him to Gohan's face (not as much as the dub though), and Cell kept saying how Goku's decision to have Gohan fight him was stupid.

Piccolo even shouting at him for making Gohan fight Cell and gave him an eye-opening lashing.

Those are some good points but.....who is Shu-sai'aku?

[EmmaWinters]

Mr. Shū, Gohan's filler tutor.

[Kid Buu]

Oh right.

I have to wonder if Goku being a deadbeat father was an intentional characterization, or if it just resulted indirectly from Toriyama making shit up as he went along, and then he just went with it.