Iconic scenes ruined by the dub?

[Dank Hill]

I feel like I've time traveled back to PlanetNamek.com when I read these topics

[ABED]

like Father like son right? Well I won't let you down.

Can absolutely come off as cheesy.

I personally think the Japanese music is one of the worst anime scores I've ever had to listen to

I feel the same way about the dub score. There's no subtelty to it. It screams ACTION and little else. There are a few good things here and there, but it doesn't fit the tone of DB b/c while the story has plenty of action, the dub score lacks the whimsical nature of Toriyama's storytelling that's present in the original score.

the vastly superior dialogue

It's not vastly superior, it's very similar. Vastly superior is Kuririn wishing he had gotten married instead of wishing that he had been a shoe salesman.

I do have to ask, are you referring to the Z dub and the Kai dub? What about the JPN version of Z?

[Doctor.]

Don't know if it was mentioned in this thread yet, but I forgot to mention it in my post: "I am the hope of the universe" speech, so cheesy and out of character, just terrible. The scene where Freeza says he'll do to Goku what he did to Kuririn also, in the Funimation dub all emotion is lost, while Nozawa puts in a brilliant performance with her scream in the original japanese. The whole Freeza arc in general is just terrible in the dub, I can't find any redeeming features unlike the other arcs.

[Son Gohan 1995]

Don't know if it was mentioned in this thread yet, but I forgot to mention it in my post: "I am the hope of the universe" speech, so cheesy and out of character, just terrible. The scene where Freeza says he'll do to Goku what he did to Kuririn also, in the Funimation dub all emotion is lost, while Nozawa puts in a brilliant performance with her scream in the original japanese. The whole Freeza arc in general is just terrible in the dub, I can't find any redeeming features unlike the other arcs.

Agreed. The freeza arc was horrendous in the dub, to many script changes and unecessary jokes.

[MajinMan]

You see, here's the problem. Even if the Kai version has lackluster moments(like the father/son kamehameha) compared to the original Z dub, that does not excuse the fact that the Z dub pretty much ruined the whole Freeza arc. Doing one scene right does not excuse the failures of the past. Even then, I think the whole Cell arc was still bad and the only arc they decently dubbed was the Buu arc, and it still wasn't that good.

[DemonRin]

Agreed. The whole series was horrendous in the dub, to many script changes and unecessary jokes.

Fix'd that for ya.

(lol, jk... kinda)

[Kakacarrottop]

You see, here's the problem. Even if the Kai version has lackluster moments(like the father/son kamehameha) compared to the original Z dub, that does not excuse the fact that the Z dub pretty much ruined the whole Freeza arc. Doing one scene right does not excuse the failures of the past. Even then, I think the whole Cell arc was still bad and the only arc they decently dubbed was the Buu arc, and it still wasn't that good.

Don't know if it was mentioned in this thread yet, but I forgot to mention it in my post: "I am the hope of the universe" speech, so cheesy and out of character, just terrible. The scene where Freeza says he'll do to Goku what he did to Kuririn also, in the Funimation dub all emotion is lost, while Nozawa puts in a brilliant performance with her scream in the original japanese. The whole Freeza arc in general is just terrible in the dub, I can't find any redeeming features unlike the other arcs.

Agreed. The freeza arc was horrendous in the dub, to many script changes and unecessary jokes.

In my opinion, the ORIGINAL original FUNi Z dub was alright for the Buu arc and later Cell arc, but for everything prior, it was easily the worst English dub of the TV series (worse than anything Ocean or even Blue Water did). I think most people tend to forget how bad it was since they're used to the airbrushed Orange Brick version of the dub, which gives the illusion FUNimation's in-house cast was always good and an immediate step up from the Ocean cast. And the argument Faulconer made it better is mainly nostalgia driven. People would be saying the same thing about Nathan Johnson or Shuki Levy if their music appeared in those iconic scenes.

[Bullza]

I feel the same way about the dub score. There's no subtelty to it. It screams ACTION and little else. There are a few good things here and there, but it doesn't fit the tone of DB b/c while the story has plenty of action, the dub score lacks the whimsical nature of Toriyama's storytelling that's present in the original score.

Well to me I feel the score gives it an appropriate amount of energy and intensity and does a fantastic job at building up tension, excitement and anticipation for what's about to come next.

I think the original score was suitable for Dragon Ball which was a fantasy adventure series with more mystique but for DBZ which is more of a action sci Fi series it seems out of place. The Kikuchi score is very dated and sounds older than the show looks, it's dreary, depressing and repetitive.

Having watched RoF I'd say the score in that movie was closer to what you heard from Faulconer than Kikuchi.

It's not vastly superior, it's very similar.

Well maybe not vastly superior but still superior. The lines are more memorable and the way they were delivered as well just better than overall better. And the yells and Cell's laugh and stuff like that, not nearly as much energy was put into them as they were in Z.

I do have to ask, are you referring to the Z dub and the Kai dub? What about the JPN version of Z?

That is what I'm referring to yeah. I haven't seen the Japanese version of the show.

[Doctor.]

Soundtracks like this, this or this, to name a few, are depressing, repetitive and dreary how, exactly? If anything, they invoke a sense of closure, excitement and hope respectively. Have you watched the japanese dub in full, out of curiosity? Or are you basing your opinion on some random episodes or clips you may find somewhere?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't catch the last portion of your post. If that's the case, then you shouldn't be making such generalizations like "the Kikuchi score is outdated and depressing" if you haven't experienced it in full, in the proper way.

[ABED]

I think the original score was suitable for Dragon Ball which was a fantasy adventure series with more mystique but for DBZ which is more of a action sci Fi series it seems out of place. The Kikuchi score is very dated and sounds older than the show looks, it's dreary, depressing and repetitive.

They aren't two different shows! DB and DBZ bleed right into each other. I'm not sure what bits of score you are referring to as dreary and depressing. The dub more often than not plays ominous tones. Then there are the insert songs like Spirit vs. Spirit which is heroic and a big cheer moment. The music that plays during that scene in the dub is unmemorable at best, combine that with the horrific VO which over explains things, it takes an iconic moment and ruins it.

[Bullza]

Soundtracks like this, this or this, to name a few, are depressing, repetitive and dreary how, exactly? If anything, they invoke a sense of closure, excitement and hope respectively. Have you watched the japanese dub in full, out of curiosity? Or are you basing your opinion on some random episodes or clips you may find somewhere?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't catch the last portion of your post. If that's the case, then you shouldn't be making such generalizations like "the Kikuchi score is outdated and depressing" if you haven't experienced it in full, in the proper way.

I have watched all of Dragon Ball in full and that does have the Kikuchi music. Then the episodes I watched of Kai yesterday had the Kikuchi score and I have seen plenty of clips to so I've heard enough to not just generalize it.

Not every single one was like it but a lot are.

You're middle link just now, why is it that every other time I hear the Kikuchi score it's that same song all the time.

I'm looking through the score now on YouTube.

Fear Unfelt Before, The Saiyans are Coming, Super Deciding Battle, Dark Clouds Swirling Over Planet Namek, Make it in Time, Super Deciding Battle 2, The Monster Frieza Vs, The Boy who came from the Future (First half), The Artificial Humans go to Town, Clash 10Billion Power Warriors and Goodbye Son Goku.

Are that same dreary, depressing, monotonous music that all just sound the same as each other. It all sounds like something from one of those old naff 70's Hong Kong movies.

[EXBadguy]

And the argument Faulconer made it better is mainly nostalgia driven..

You hardly see that argument around here though. And I thought most folks here grew up with Falconer then changed to being subbies/pro-subbies.

Kikuchi's music are the same dreary, depressing, monotonous music that all just sound the same as each other. It all sounds like something from one of those old naff 70's Hong Kong movies.

I agree that Kikuchi's music in Z sounds dreary and generic as fuck, but I think the reason why it's praised so much because of its dynamics, suspense, and timing(such as silence). People don't care about the musical notes. If you learn about music from the last few centuries(BEST example), you'd see what I'm talking about, and why the japanese still has a taste for classical music and some people overseas can reason with them.

Now, again, I agree with you on Kikuchi being generic and boring, but I think the elements of the orchestra are the reasons why his music gets praised. Of course, I don't speak for all of the pro-subs, but yeah.

[ABED]

I'd hardly call it generic. It sticks out, and when is it dreary, except when it calls for it?

Are that same dreary, depressing, monotonous music that all just sound the same as each other.

They aren't the same, not depressing, and you are completely dismissing the numerous other cues that are upbeat and fun as well as when the music fits the tone of the scenes they are placed. How can you honestly say the Faulconer score isn't either "rock" or dingy cheap sounding synth? It also has a penchant for completely missing the point of certain scenes which hurts the intent and effect of the scene.

why is it that every other time I hear the Kikuchi score it's that same song all the time.

You're prone to hyperbole?

[Bullza]

They aren't the same, not depressing, and you are completely dismissing the numerous other cues that are upbeat and fun as well as when the music fits the tone of the scenes they are placed.

They aren't the same, they just sound the same, they're interchangable. I'm not missing the upbeat music my point was to compare a type of music in the show and how many all sound alike

There's slightly more variety in the upbeat music but it's still dated and similar.

How can you honestly say the Faulconer score isn't either "rock" or dingy cheap sounding synth?

I didn't say that. That kind of music is very 90's and being a heavy action oriented show it's a better fit. It's also just better music in general anyway because they aren't dreary and depressing. The SSJ3 theme, Ginyu Force theme, Super Saiyan Vegeta theme are far better tracks than anything Kikuchi came out with.

They're also more memorable because several of them are very distinctive so you can easily hear a song and remember a particular scene.

You're prone to hyperbole?

No this one is true, any time I see a clip on YouTube or I get into these discussions and someone posts an example it's that same track most of the time. If it ain't that it's one of the interchangable "dun dun dunnnn" tracks that's supposed to be intense but is actually boring as all hell.

[DoomieDoomie911]

It's also just better music in general anyway because they aren't dreary and depressing.

I really don't want to jump in here, but how in the world can you say that the Faulconer score isn't dreary and depressing? I understand that it's a matter of opinion, but I'm sure that most people can agree that the Faulconer score isn't exactly happy and bright...

[fadeddreams5]

I honestly think both Faulconer and Kikuchi provided terrible soundtracks, but I prefer the former because it has a lot of themes I genuinely enjoy listening to outside the series, and brings intensity and hype where it's needed in an over-the-top series. Unfortunately, as is widely known, it never shuts up, and saps any emotion away from various scenes, like Gohan's initial SSJ2 transformation, the Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Goku fight, Majin Vegeta's sacrifice, etc. Kikuchi, on the other hand, manages to perfectly capture the tone desired in scenes, and has more depth than its synth-orientated counterpart, but that doesn't save it from being ****ing boring. I could care less about the quality of a soundtrack if it's not exciting in the slightest.

I really don't want to jump in here, but how in the world can you say that the Faulconer score isn't dreary and depressing? I understand that it's a matter of opinion, but I'm sure that most people can agree that the Faulconer score isn't exactly happy and bright...

I don't recall any theme in Faulconer's soundtrack that was depressing. Well, maybe this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayj7gIRNtoc

[Kakacarrottop]

I think the elements of the orchestra are the reasons why his music gets praised.

Well the fact the music has orchestral parts means it cost much more money and effort to make than any of the American scores (which were all done exclusively on a synthesizer & guitar). I'm also in the camp that thinks it's boring and unfitting at times, but when compared to Faulconer, it's like comparing John Williams Star Wars soundtrack to the cheap soundtrack for a Star Wars video game.

I don't recall any theme in Faulconer's soundtrack that was depressing. Well, maybe this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayj7gIRNtoc

The whole Freeza Saga felt bleak and depressing because of the Faulconer bgm

[DoomieDoomie911]

I really don't want to jump in here, but how in the world can you say that the Faulconer score isn't dreary and depressing? I understand that it's a matter of opinion, but I'm sure that most people can agree that the Faulconer score isn't exactly happy and bright...

I don't recall any theme in Faulconer's soundtrack that was depressing. Well, maybe this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayj7gIRNtoc

I personally find most of the score a bit depressing... It has a sort of "apocalyptic" feel to me.

I really don't see how anyone can say that the Kikuchi score is more dreary than the Faulconer score, though. That makes no sense to me...

[fadeddreams5]

The whole Freeza Saga felt bleak and depressing because of the Faulconer bgm

When I think Freeza saga, these are the first themes that come to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcXX4KP38Xg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU5EMlT3Uzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tBloHW2HDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-wyhZeq2s

I don't see how any of this sounds depressing in the slightest. The third sounds apocalyptic, I guess, which is the point. The fourth sounds like something out of a genesis video game, but it's not depressing. Bulma and the Frog is a terrible track, but I would say it's more obnoxious than sad... at all. Can't think of much others, besides that theme that plays when Goku gives his "I Am" speech and the one that plays while he's healing.

I personally find most of the score a bit depressing... It has a sort of "apocalyptic" feel to me.

I really don't see how anyone can say that the Kikuchi score is more dreary than the Faulconer score, though. That makes no sense to me...

I would say this counts as depressing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebzJSebVE50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QObNK3dHe7c

Both in a good way, mind you. I really like those themes. I don't hear any of that in Faulconer's soundtrack. I don't think Kikuchi's soundtrack, in general, is depressing; I just find it dull, besides a few gems (e.g. above). It's hard to believe someone would find Faulconer's soundtrack dull/dreary (obnoxious and low-quality, maybe) when its entire purpose is to build hype at every corner.

[DoomieDoomie911]

The whole Freeza Saga felt bleak and depressing because of the Faulconer bgm

When I think Freeza saga, these are the first themes that come to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcXX4KP38Xg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU5EMlT3Uzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tBloHW2HDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-wyhZeq2s

I don't see how any of this sounds depressing in the slightest. The third sounds apocalyptic, I guess, which is the point. The fourth sounds like something out of a genesis video game, but it's not depressing. Bulma and the Frog is a terrible track, but I would say it's more obnoxious than sad... at all. Can't think of much others, besides that theme that plays when Goku gives his "I Am" speech and the one that plays while he's healing.

I personally find most of the score a bit depressing... It has a sort of "apocalyptic" feel to me.

I really don't see how anyone can say that the Kikuchi score is more dreary than the Faulconer score, though. That makes no sense to me...

I would say this counts as depressing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebzJSebVE50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QObNK3dHe7c

Both in a good way, mind you. I really like those themes. I don't hear any of that in Faulconer's soundtrack. I don't think Kikuchi's soundtrack, in general, is depressing; I just find it dull, besides a few gems (e.g. above). It's hard to believe someone would find Faulconer's soundtrack dull/dreary (obnoxious and low-quality, maybe) when its entire purpose is to build hype at every corner.

Most of the Faulconer tracks have an apocalyptic tone, and I find that depressing. Maybe not every single one, but most of them do. That's just my personal opinion, though. I'm sure that if I grew up on the Faulconer score I would love it too. It just doesn't feel like Dragon Ball to me.