Goku's attitude in "Dragon Ball Super"

[Lord Beerus]

Even team four star Goku is not this retarded.

I wouldn't call Goku retarded in the slightest. He's more naive and gullible than anything.

[Bansho64]

Yeah, my views have completely changed on this subject. I sincerely apologize for what I previously said in this topic because I believe I just listened to what people have said how Goku is and not what he's been in the source material I've been trying so hard to give Super some slack and just say that "That's just how Goku is I guess!" and laugh it off but I can't do it anymore. Because what we're seeing in Super is not how Goku's been in past and it's almost a parody of the character. They're literally taking the flaws of Goku and exaggerating them.

[Lord Beerus]

Which is why the writers of Super need to take a page out my book to rectify this issue. Specifically my stance of "FUCK NAMEK!", hey, it worked wonders for my rewrite of F

I'm with you on this on. The Namekian Dragon Balls so need to bite the dust.

[Beyond]

I love how when disagreement happens, you're called a moronic fan boy.

And the Cell Games isn't even a good example since Goku couldn't beat Cell, so he had to leave things to Gohan. At that point, it was out of his hands, it was either let Gohan fight and hope he can beat Cell, or let the world die. Really no option C. Goku should have told Gohan what was going to happened, but the point still stand, Gohan was the only one who could beat Cell. Before then, Goku kept Gohan from actually fighting unless he couldn't fight himself like with Vegeta, while Piccolo threw a five years old Gohan who had no battle experience and fresh out of his training against two genocidal aliens, and did laid into him because he got scared and chickened out of a three-way attack. Isn't like Piccolo can take the high ground in this. Piccolo also had no problem with Gohan training for the androids and Cell, he just protested with Gohan fighting Cell.

To be fair, Piccolo didn't care for Gohan when he kidnapped him while Goku always cared. As for making Gohan fight the saiyans that was the whole point of the training. Was he supposed to tell Gohan to get lost, so everyone could die? Piccolo did have too much faith in Gohan but it was a risk worth taking. Also who cares if he didn't protest Gohan training with him and Goku for the androids? That's chichi's job. Piccolo was right to be mad at Goku. Piccolo had no reason to believe Gohan would beat cell in a 1v1 fight. He knew Gohan's rage wasn't a sure thing. Piccolo never told Gohan to fight anyone he couldn't beat alone.

[HeroR]

I love how when disagreement happens, you're called a moronic fan boy.

And the Cell Games isn't even a good example since Goku couldn't beat Cell, so he had to leave things to Gohan. At that point, it was out of his hands, it was either let Gohan fight and hope he can beat Cell, or let the world die. Really no option C. Goku should have told Gohan what was going to happened, but the point still stand, Gohan was the only one who could beat Cell. Before then, Goku kept Gohan from actually fighting unless he couldn't fight himself like with Vegeta, while Piccolo threw a five years old Gohan who had no battle experience and fresh out of his training against two genocidal aliens, and did laid into him because he got scared and chickened out of a three-way attack. Isn't like Piccolo can take the high ground in this. Piccolo also had no problem with Gohan training for the androids and Cell, he just protested with Gohan fighting Cell.

To be fair, Piccolo didn't care for Gohan when he kidnapped him while Goku always cared. As for making Gohan fight the saiyans that was the whole point of the training. Was he supposed to tell Gohan to get lost, so everyone could die? Piccolo did have too much faith in Gohan but it was a risk worth taking. Also who cares if he didn't protest Gohan training with him and Goku for the androids? That's chichi's job. Piccolo was right to be mad at Goku. Piccolo had no reason to believe Gohan would beat cell in a 1v1 fight. He knew Gohan's rage wasn't a sure thing. Piccolo never told Gohan to fight anyone he couldn't beat alone.

So, it's okay for Piccolo to throw an untrained five years old boy against two genocidal aliens because it was a risk worth taking, but Goku is terrible to have Gohan fight against Cell despite him being the only one who can do it. And he had no problem with Gohan training for three years to fight androids who were destined to murdered everyone and spend another year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in order to fight Cell. Yet, he only protested in that very moment, but said absolutely nothing before then and supported all of Goku's decisions. Also, Piccolo did tell Gohan to get lost when he blamed himself for Tien's death and told him he was a waste, to which Krillin pointed out that Gohan was only five and this was his first real battle.

Yeah, Piccolo has no real high ground here. He may have been right to chew out Goku, but he's being a bit of hypocrite no matter how you look at it.

[Beyond]

.

So, it's okay for Piccolo to throw an untrained five years old boy against two genocidal aliens because it was a risk worth taking, but Goku is terrible to have Gohan fight against Cell despite him being the only one who can do it. And he had no problem with Gohan training for three years to fight androids who were destined to murdered everyone and spend another year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in order to fight Cell. Yet, he only protested in that very moment, but said absolutely nothing before then and supported all of Goku's decisions. Also, Piccolo did tell Gohan to get lost when he blamed himself for Tien's death and told him he was a waste, to which Krillin pointed out that Gohan was only five and this was his first real battle.

Yeah, Piccolo has no real high ground here. He may have been right to chew out Goku, but he's being a bit of hypocrite no matter how you look at it.

He wasn't untrained but you're right that it wasn't a good thing. Both Piccolo and Goku took risks with Gohan's potential and they both did it poorly, but just because Piccolo made the same mistake as Goku doesn't mean he can't call him out. They failed to make sure Gohan was mentally ready. Piccolo would only be a true hypocrite if he chewed Goku out and was still actively doing the same thing. Piccolo realized his mistake years ago. Gohan training to help fight the android can't be compared to a one on one death match. If Goku chewed Piccolo out for what he did to his son, he would have been in the right as well.

[HeroR]

He wasn't untrained but you're right that it wasn't a good thing. Both Piccolo and Goku took risks with Gohan's potential and they both did it poorly, but just because Piccolo made the same mistake as Goku doesn't mean he can't call him out. They failed to make sure Gohan was mentally ready. Piccolo would only be a true hypocrite if he chewed Goku out and was still actively doing the same thing. Piccolo realized his mistake years ago. Gohan training to help fight the android can't be compared to a one on one death match. If Goku chewed Piccolo out for what he did to his son, he would have been in the right as well.

When I say untrained, I mean untrained in the sense that Gohan has never been in a live battle before and wasn't mentally prepared for it. Piccolo only made things worse by guilt tripping Gohan by agreeing that it was his fault that Tien died and it was a failure, causing Gohan to almost leave in tears.

Goku trained Gohan and did try to mentally prepared him for what was going to happened by making him master Super Saiyan. Gohan has also been in several life and death battles at this point, so he was far more seasoned. Plus, Goku had no choice but to send Gohan. If Goku could have powered up to kill Cell, don't you think he would have done it? Did you think he was happy that it was all on Gohan and there was really nothing he could do to help? He wanted Gohan to surpass him, but I'm sure he didn't want Gohan to be the lone person able to beat Cell.

So, Piccolo comes off a little worse than Goku in my opinion. Goku did what he did because it was his only option and he most likely didn't tell Gohan that he was their last hope because he didn't want to put pressure on Gohan since he already had self-esteemed issues and didn't believe that he was stronger than his dad. That's partly why Goku fought Cell first. Sure, he did it for fun, but he also did it to show Gohan how Cell fights and to show Gohan truly how powerful he has become because nothing Cell or Goku did during their battle impressed him. In other words, Goku gave Gohan far more tools to succeed, vs Piccolo throwing a five years into a life and death battle, and being surprised when the kid has performance issues.

I also wouldn't say Piccolo learned his lesson since if he knew the entire time Gohan hate fighting, then why didn't protest Gohan training for the androids and Cell? Honestly, he didn't seem all that concern until he merged with Kami, which would explained a lot.

[Bansho64]

Goku did what he did because it was his only option and he most likely didn't tell Gohan that he was their last hope because he didn't want to put pressure on Gohan since he already had self-esteemed issues and didn't believe that he was stronger than his dad.

The main reason Goku didn't tell Gohan is because he assumed Gohan already knew. When Piccolo is yelling at Goku, the main thing that he said that snapped some sense into him was "Does Gohan about your strategy?" "Did you make sure to discuss it with him!?" Immediately, Goku looks at Piccolo with a look of shock and disbelief. That, to me, speaks volumes. He smiled the whole time Gohan was beat because he thought that his own son wanted to fight Cell and would snap at any time. He assumed that Gohan knew his strategy and was just like him. He didn't even care to discuss it with him because he assumed he already knew. He doesn't even know his own son. Whereas, Piccolo was able to describe what Gohan was thinking and he knew that Gohan didn't want to fight. Piccolo put Gohan through all kinds of crap in his childhood. He knew that Gohan was needed for the battle against the Saiyans. Without him, everyone would've died. If Piccolo had taken it easy then Gohan definitely wouldn't have been the asset that he was. However, Goku basically assumed that Gohan wanted to fight against Cell and went along with that. And he betted his own son's life on that assumption. Yes, he spent more time with him. Yes, he was gentler and perhaps kinder. But the fact is, he doesn't know his son. A father and a son can spend all the time they want together but never have a connection. Gohan wanted a fatherly connection out of Goku ,whereas, Goku wanted more of a partner and a fighter. Two people wanted two different things. I'm mainly referring to the Cyborg/Cell are just to clarify. Goku's ignorance of Gohan's personality extend to the Boo arc as well. He's very surprised Gohan didn't train which shows that he still doesn't know him. I'm not saying Goku is the worst guy in the world but he really doesn't know his family.

[HeroR]

Goku did what he did because it was his only option and he most likely didn't tell Gohan that he was their last hope because he didn't want to put pressure on Gohan since he already had self-esteemed issues and didn't believe that he was stronger than his dad.

The main reason Goku didn't tell Gohan is because he assumed Gohan already knew. When Piccolo is yelling at Goku, the main thing that he said that snapped some sense into him was "Does Gohan about your strategy?" "Did you make sure to discuss it with him!?" Immediately, Goku looks at Piccolo with a look of shock and disbelief. That, to me, speaks volumes. He smiled the whole time Gohan was beat because he thought that his own son wanted to fight Cell and would snap at any time. He assumed that Gohan knew his strategy and was just like him. He didn't even care to discuss it with him because he assumed he already knew. He doesn't even know his own son. Whereas, Piccolo was able to describe what Gohan was thinking and he knew that Gohan didn't want to fight. Piccolo put Gohan through all kinds of crap in his childhood. He knew that Gohan was needed for the battle against the Saiyans. Without him, everyone would've died. If Piccolo had taken it easy then Gohan definitely wouldn't have been the asset that he was. However, Goku basically assumed that Gohan wanted to fight against Cell and went along with that. And he betted his own son's life on that assumption. Yes, he spent more time with him. Yes, he was gentler and perhaps kinder. But the fact is, he doesn't know his son. A father and a son can spend all the time they want together but never have a connection. Gohan wanted a fatherly connection out of Goku ,whereas, Goku wanted more of a partner and a fighter. Two people wanted two different things. I'm mainly referring to the Cyborg/Cell are just to clarify. Goku's ignorance of Gohan's personality extend to the Boo arc as well. He's very surprised Gohan didn't train which shows that he still doesn't know him. I'm not saying Goku is the worst guy in the world but he really doesn't know his family.

I guess Piccolo would know better than anyone how much Gohan didn't want to fight since he threw him into a live battle and yelled at him when he froze. That's really how Piccolo came into this insight and he still didn't care about Gohan training for the androids before hand. And Goku was in the same situation as Piccolo, Gohan was their last hope, there was no one else. Piccolo just saw Gohan as a valuable asset, not the key to victory.

I also don't blame Goku for being surprised by Gohan not training at all for seven years. He left the Earth in Gohan's hand to protect and felt safe staying dead since his son was looking after things. So when he returns for a day and finds out his normally dependable son has slacked off and actually gotten weaker, it's bound to be surprising and a little disappointed.

And you do noticed that after Buu, Goku doesn't bother Gohan about fighting again. When Vegeta asked about Gohan being part of the U7 team, Goku said that Gohan doesn't fights anymore and he was okay with it. He even confronts Gohan when he chose his conference over the tournament. He also didn't begrudged Gohan for getting wrecked by Freeza, telling him that he did his best. Honestly, it was Piccolo who showed more visible disappointment in Gohan not training and even mocks him for forgetting his gi.

[Bansho64]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Piccolo is this righteous and perfect caregiver. Not in the least. I'm just saying he has a better connection and understanding of Gohan than his own father does. I don't think it's really an even comparison to put Piccolo's situation with Goku's situation. I will admit that Piccolo did mainly want to use Gohan as an asset at first but he developed emotions and feelings later on as seen when he sacrifices himself for Gohan. He was a pretty hardcore prick at that point but he was developing into a lovable hardcore prick. Most people were surprised he even treated Gohan considering his less than detestable past. Most didn't really expect him to establish a friendship with the son of his enemy. That doesn't excuse his actions but they do make them more understandable. With Goku, I expect more understanding. He's actually Gohan's father and his actions are more like "WTF" Did he even stop to think during that whole year and the extra 10 days that he spent with Gohan that the boy might not actually want to fight Cell? With Piccolo, most of the time he told Gohan to stay behind him and watch but Goku just pushed him out to meet the threat head on. Not to mention that he gave said threat a freaking SENZU BEAN! Atleast Piccolo actually told Gohan to attack Nappa when he was incapacitated first. Also, yes I can blame Goku for being disappointed. He should've known that Gohan wanted to study more than anything else. He still couldn't get that "Gohan wants to train a lot" mentality of his mind. He left the torch to someone who he assumed wanted it in the first place. Now, on to Super. Most of the time Goku didn't really need Gohan considering that he had new opponents with even greater. He didn't need Gohan at that point so he didn't really care what he did. Piccolo getting on Gohan's case about forgetting his gi is not something I can't really explain. It seemed like more of a comedic thing to me more then anything else. He was also very understanding when Gohan apologized to him for his sacrifice for the second time.

[Yomi]

A lot of random Chi Chi hate.
I think the Ratio of Bitchy/Sweet is probably the same as it was in Z.
It's a little weird that she's so strict on Goten but it hasn't reached Gohan level yet.
It's just like "you have a test tomorrow, study." Just seems like regular Mom stuff.

As for how she acts around Goku it seems pretty much the same. There's a lot of understanding scenes with her too.
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Can you imagine cooking for Goku, 3 times a day? lol

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Gokuu in Super has regressed a bit. Actually this regression started from F but but he isn't the only character who has regressed (*cough*cough* Vegeta).
I think in Super it is cause of the different interpretations of the character of the different writers. For instance Fukushima and Yoshitaka Toshio focus only on Gokuu's stupidity and even exaggerate that to the point where he acts like a retard. Atsuhiro Tomioka the current writer of the Trunks arc gives major focus on Gokuu's obsession of fighting. So the point i am trying to make is that there is no middle ground to the character either Gokuu is completely stupid or he is a fighting machine. This is IMO the problem with Gokuu in Super and he isn't the only one who suffers with this problem. Only King Ryu handled Gokuu well i hope he makes his return.


- Travis

[DBZ Macky]

I'd think that an in-universe explaination for Goku's attitude would be that he's given up on Gohan and Goten/Trunks to be the protectors of the Earth based on past performance. This explains not only why he's even more focused on getting stronger and doing what he loves most but also explains why he'd train Oob at the end of Z. Besides, he's never seen such an insane level of power before. Only Freeza inflated the power scaling as much as the Gods of Destruction. Heck, Even Beerus is casual level these days with Whis,Vados,Omni-king's attendants,Omni-king himself and possibly Zalama.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Piccolo is this righteous and perfect caregiver. Not in the least. I'm just saying he has a better connection and understanding of Gohan than his own father does. I don't think it's really an even comparison to put Piccolo's situation with Goku's situation. I will admit that Piccolo did mainly want to use Gohan as an asset at first but he developed emotions and feelings later on as seen when he sacrifices himself for Gohan. He was a pretty hardcore prick at that point but he was developing into a lovable hardcore prick. Most people were surprised he even treated Gohan considering his less than detestable past. Most didn't really expect him to establish a friendship with the son of his enemy. That doesn't excuse his actions but they do make them more understandable. With Goku, I expect more understanding. He's actually Gohan's father and his actions are more like "WTF" Did he even stop to think during that whole year and the extra 10 days that he spent with Gohan that the boy might not actually want to fight Cell? With Piccolo, most of the time he told Gohan to stay behind him and watch but Goku just pushed him out to meet the threat head on. Not to mention that he gave said threat a freaking SENZU BEAN! Atleast Piccolo actually told Gohan to attack Nappa when he was incapacitated first. Also, yes I can blame Goku for being disappointed. He should've known that Gohan wanted to study more than anything else. He still couldn't get that "Gohan wants to train a lot" mentality of his mind. He left the torch to someone who he assumed wanted it in the first place. Now, on to Super. Most of the time Goku didn't really need Gohan considering that he had new opponents with even greater. He didn't need Gohan at that point so he didn't really care what he did. Piccolo getting on Gohan's case about forgetting his gi is not something I can't really explain. It seemed like more of a comedic thing to me more then anything else. He was also very understanding when Gohan apologized to him for his sacrifice for the second time.

I disagree so much. This is actual one of my biggest peeves in Dragon Ball.

Piccolo was -WRONG- in his thoughts about Gohan. Gohan absolutely was -not- having self doubt when Piccolo gave that speech to Goku...at least in the anime. I can't say in the manga as I havent reached Cell Arc.

Gohan actually wipes blood from his lip and then very soon after tells Cell (Paraphrased) "I understand why my father thinks I'm the only one who can beat you. I dont want to have to kill you..." The first real doubt we see in Gohan aside from his initial astonishment that Goku has resigned from the fight is after Goku dies.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying Gohan is a guy who loves fighting and competition. What I do mean is that Gohan obviously grew up a lot in his time with Goku and was not afraid. He was not the scared little baby Piccolo knew and I think fans have been 100000000% wrong in their interpretation of this scene.

[Bansho64]

I'm afraid I'm not seeing what you're seeing. To me, that's how the relationship between Gohan and Gokuu was in that arc. Piccolo seemed more understanding to me. I honestly don't understand how I'm misinterpreting the scene.

[omaro34]

Goku is naive, gullible, unintelligent outside fighting, immature, innocent, and wet behind the ears. He always has, and always will be. However, with that said they have taken it to a whole new level in Super.

[dbs fanboy]

Goku in Super is just more naive because he doesn't have to deal with the same desesperated situation as in Z and the og db.

Super's (anime) problem is that the writers such as Toshio overexagerate Goku's defects So he seems more stupid than ever. Just look at the manga, Goku doesn't act in the same way.

Remember ep 14? or ep 11?, in those episodes Goku was still obsessed with fighting but he cared about the others, about the Earth.
Something that i Liked about Goku in ep 51, was his line with Ft. Trunks.
In all this scenes I felt like Goku wasn't off character and i liked it, that's Goku for me.

Remember ep 53? Or how Goku acted in ep 30? (The picnic thing), that's not Goku

[Mazingerdestro]

Goku is naive, gullible, unintelligent outside fighting, immature, innocent, and wet behind the ears. He always has, and always will be. However, with that said they have taken it to a whole new level in Super.

Yeah it feels like a desperate attempt to make him look younger.
Instead of having kids idolize him for been cool. Toei seeks to make kids capable of identifying themselves by watching him because he acts so childish.
Pretty bad for a shonen hero.
Been naive is fine but Goku has shown moments of been just damn stupid and at the same time he can be pretty smart (he wasted the whole Vegeta vs Hit battle seeking to beat Tokitobashi)