Anyone else disappointed that there's little to no nudity in DBS?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Clothes are a barrier. To see them removed from a character opens that character even further on both a physical and spiritual level for the viewer to consumer.

Ok, look, I know I already quoted this, but I'm not going to let go of it till you acknowledge it. I'm assuming that we're both men, so I want you to know that I'm not judging you as a person. What I'm about to say next is purely a criticism of your point of view. It's not a criticism of YOU; it's a criticism of your point of view. Ok?

So, this right here? This statement by YOU, and not by me? This sums up the problem with fanservice more eloquently than I could have ever come up with myself. Nudity is tied with physical, emotional, and spiritual vulnerability; yes. And that's wonderful for two consenting people. But that's not what goes on during fanservice. Most anime girls are not comfortable with having their private parts exposed for anyone else to see; including those who are separated by the 4th wall. Even Bulma was upset about having her vagina exposed to Master Roshi; and she was as perverted as they came!

Peering at someone's nudity without their permission is a violation of privacy; and by wanting more nudity, you're essentially training yourself to be ok with that. Worst yet, you're training yourself to view her body as a consumable item; otherwise, you NEVER would have used the word "consumer". There's no real way for anime girls to give you their permission, separated by the 4th wall as you are.

So if you believe you're making any kind of connection with any fictional characters, you also have to accept the implications that come with that. They deserve respect; and if you're looking at their nakedness without THEIR permission (and not the permission of the writers), then you're treating them about as disrespectfully as a man can possibly treat a woman.

They aren't people, you literally can't disrespect them. Your personification of drawings is your problem.

[Fionordequester]

They aren't people, you literally can't disrespect them. Your personification of drawings is your problem.

Look at the post I quoted again. JulieYBM tried to claim that nudity allowed people to make connections with the characters. My point is that, by his logic, he ought to accept the implications that come with that. He can't have it both ways.

[Cipher]

Goku's dick is due for a twenty-year return.

Did Toriyama just forget about it like Lunch?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

They aren't people, you literally can't disrespect them. Your personification of drawings is your problem.

Look at the post I quoted again. JulieYBM tried to claim that nudity allowed people to make connections with the characters. My point is that, by his logic, he ought to accept the implications that come with that. He can't have it both ways.

You can connect to a character without literally personifying them. This is common sense, I think you're doing this purely for the sake of stirring shit.

[SansrivaaL]

Didnt know a thread like this existed
As for me I'm fine with a lil fanservice, but nudity and fanservice when it comes to girl characters showing their appeal like how FT/OP/Bleach does it, then no, I'm actually glad we dont have a huge ass busty woman in DB, which is why I am so proud of DB, they never tried to rely on that for horny kids (there were parts of Bulma in the early DB of her showing too much that was needed to, the same can be said for Goku's johhny), plus, theres hentai and porn for that kind of shit.

[WhatsUpPigeons]

I just really wanted to see Piccolo's thick green ass Y'all know thats the real reason this thread was made...

[Hellspawn28]

No and why? I feel like these type of topics are made because they want the show to be mature for grown ups. The nudity in the first DB was mostly use because Goku was a kid living in the wild and we only really seen for a bit in Z & GT when Gohan or Goku become a Oozaru. Otherwise, there is no point. Besides I hate mindless fan service in anime these days which is why I rarely check out the newer anime. I can't stand garbage like High School DxD.

[Fionordequester]

You can connect to a character without literally personifying them. This is common sense, I think you're doing this purely for the sake of stirring shit.

It's not as cut-and-dry as that. No, characters can never be fully personified; but they can be personified enough to where you feel a connection. They can remind you of other people in your life, or strike a chord in your heart. I can look at, say, Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender, and wonder to myself "hmm; I wonder what I would do if I actually met a person like that? Same psychosis, same lack of good parenting, same exposure to "survival of the fittest" propaganda; what would I do?"

It's the whole reason a person can be saddened by a fictional character's death. It's the whole reason I like Goku, and not Luffy; he didn't feel real per say, but he felt more genuine than Luffy. I felt a connection with him that I didn't feel with the latter. I just don't see how you can have it both ways. I don't see how you can claim to respect a character, and then turn them into fap material one moment later.

So unless Jacob happens to be asexual, and draws NO erotic titillation whatsoever from naked females (which is always possible); he's bound to objectify them on some level if he's peering at their nudity. And I'm not even judging him for that; I fall into the same trap sometimes. I just don't want him kidding himself.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's not as cut-and-dry as that.

Gotta stop you right there. Yes, it actually is that simple. You're the only one who seems to want to make it otherwise. If you feel that you need to extensively bridge-build between fantasy and reality, that's your prerogative, but don't pretend that it's normal and don't shove it down our throats.

[Fionordequester]

Gotta stop you right there. Yes, it actually is that simple. You're the only one who seems to want to make it otherwise. If you feel that you need to bridge-build between fantasy and reality, feel free, but don't pretend that it's normal and don't shove it down our throats.

Then that's where we disagree. And I don't feel like I'm shoving anything down your throats; I'm telling Jacob my opinion. I wasn't even talking to anyone else!

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Gotta stop you right there. Yes, it actually is that simple. You're the only one who seems to want to make it otherwise. If you feel that you need to bridge-build between fantasy and reality, feel free, but don't pretend that it's normal and don't shove it down our throats.

Then that's where we disagree. And I don't feel like I'm shoving anything down your throats; I'm telling Jacob my opinion. I wasn't even talking to anyone else!

So you only apply that principle to him? If not, it wasn't just in reference to him.

[Fionordequester]

So you only apply that principle to him? If not, it wasn't just in reference to him.

I believe that my principle applies to most normal folks, yes. But my message was only directed at him; the only reason I'm talking to you as well is because you decided to enter the conversation.

And if Jacob replies to me and says "hey, don't you be telling me what's going through my head!"; then that's that. I'll respect his wishes to drop it. IMO, "forcing something down your throat" is what happens when the other person makes it clear they don't want to argue anymore, and I keep arguing anyway. Till then, both people are responsible for however long the argument goes on.

[Asura]

Your logic is basically the same as "Watching pornography makes men want to go out and rape women" - No, it's actually quite the opposite.

You're also being quite condescending, implying that he should come back and publicly apologize for not meeting your weird and illogical views.

[precita]

Back in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and to a certain extend, Dragon Ball GT (specifically Dragon Ball), there was a crap ton of nudity. From showing Goku and Gohan's penis, to showing some of Bulma's tits, to a lot of butt shots. Then we move on to Dragon Ball Super, and we barely see any of it. The only type of nudity we see is Bulma in a towel two times and we didn't see any of her private parts and a butt shot from Barry Karn after he turns back into human in Episode 74. And that's it. No real fan service moments though, and I mean real fan service, not Dragon Ball's fan service, like transformations. Absolutely no boob shots. And that's very disappointing. And before anyone say "Toei can't draw nudity anymore." No, that's BS! I've seen nudity in some of their other recent shows. I'll show you guys an example:
This shot is Opening 3 of Sailor Moon Crystal, where they animated Hotaru and Chibiusa naked in a rose garden. So yeah, they can still draw nudity. So what do you guys think, are you disappointed that there's barely or are you like "Nah, I don't like nudity anyway"?

Why does Japan love drawing little girls naked?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Your logic is basically the same as "Watching pornography makes men want to go out and rape women" - No, it's actually quite the opposite.

You're also being quite condescending, implying that he should come back and publicly apologize for not meeting your weird and illogical views.

Exactly this, as if there's some bizarre misunderstanding of what fantasy is going on here.

Why does Japan love drawing little girls naked?

To me, it's a symbol of purity, innocence, etc.

[Fionordequester]

Your logic is basically the same as "Watching pornography makes men want to go out and rape women" - No, it's actually quite the opposite.

I feel like that's an exaggeration of what I was trying to say. I felt as though Jacob was trying to paint a voyeuristic act as something that drew him closer to his fictional characters; when really, it's quite the opposite. Objectifying someone is not something that helps in building a connection.

You're also being quite condescending, implying that he should come back and publicly apologize for not meeting your weird and illogical views.

You're right; I shouldn't have tried to force him to acknowledge it. If it helps, I wasn't trying to come from a place of judgement; I was trying to come from a place of passion. That's why I prefaced my arguments with "I want you to know that I'm not judging you as a person. What I [say is not]...a criticism of YOU; it's a criticism of your point of view", and "I'm not even judging him for that; I fall into the same trap at times".

I'm every bit as flawed as any other person you ever met in your life. I'm sorry if I didn't acknowledge that strongly enough.

[Fionordequester]

In any case, I think I was too forceful, looking back at my previous posts. So, I'm going to try and rephrase it; see if perhaps I can explain myself in a more adult way.

Jacob referred to the portrayal of nudity as "open[ing] that character even further...for the viewer to consumer". That hit a red button in me. He probably didn't mean it, but in my eyes, he essentially equated nudity with consumerism; and I don't believe that should ever happen. Yet, I think that's a natural consequence of being ok with the sort of fanservice you see in anime.

No, a little T&A isn't gonna turn you into Ted Bundy; that's common sense. But it can have other, more subversive effects; like not being quite as sensitive to a man or woman's privacy as you ought to be. Or perhaps staring at someone's rack a little longer than is appropriate. Or perhaps you get the urge to give a quick little touch to someone on a crowded bus (a very common occurrence in Japan; to the point where they've now built separate buslines for both genders). Maybe it's something as innocent as accidentally walking in on someone changing, and being just a little slower to look away than you otherwise would have been. Every action you take is one that will have some sort of lingering effect on your brain; you can't just compartmentalize things and expect there to be no consequences for future behavior. That goes against everything science has to say about how our brains are structured.

Does this seem more reasonable? Obviously my views aren't ones you're gonna hear from everyone; but I'm hoping I at least presented this in a more acceptable way.

[buutenks]

Wait, i remember Zamasu had his clothes pierced by Trunks' sword. Does that count?

[simtek34]

After reading all four pages of this topic, I am now horrified at what Toei would do if they ever Re-Animate the Original Dragonball...

[gohan_black]

what kind of wierdo search for nudity in anime???