Daima and its implications for the Battle of the Gods

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Trunks is turning nine in the first episode of Daima, so that places it less than a year after the Majin Buu arc.

Someone with behind the scenes knowledge of the series said awhile back that it took place 9 months after Buu, so around 6 or so months after the wish was made to make everyone forget about him. Battle of Gods is all over the place, as the movie takes place 4 years after Buu, but the series' arc is said to take place "a little while" after. So much of this timeline mess could've been avoided had they moved past End of Z starting with Resurrection F. I understand why one off projects like the 2008 OVA and Battle of Gods were set after Buu, but there was no excuse to keep doing that once they realized they were in it for the long run.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Trunks is turning nine in the first episode of Daima, so that places it less than a year after the Majin Buu arc.

Sorry by timeline placement I meant series placement like they haven't specified it takes place before DBS they just keep saying it's after Buu arc.

[JulieYBM]

Trunks is turning nine in the first episode of Daima, so that places it less than a year after the Majin Buu arc.

Someone with behind the scenes knowledge of the series said awhile back that it took place 9 months after Buu, so around 6 or so months after the wish was made to make everyone forget about him. Battle of Gods is all over the place, as the movie takes place 4 years after Buu, but the series' arc is said to take place "a little while" after. So much of this timeline mess could've been avoided had they moved past End of Z starting with Resurrection F. I understand why one off projects like the 2008 OVA and Battle of Gods were set after Buu, but there was no excuse to keep doing that once they realized they were in it for the long run.

I don't disagree. I'd have personally been way more precise about dates if I were in charge, but I'm not lol

[Koitsukai]

What's the problem with Vegeta not using SS3 in BoG?
He didn't even use SS3 vs Gomah

There are so many explanations that could be given and things remaind unchanged, but it's easier to cry plothole, plothole, mommy, that plothole is coming at me.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

What's the problem with Vegeta not using SS3 in BoG?
He didn't even use SS3 vs Gomah

You can get away with Ssj3, but Goku not using Ssj4 again or even trying to access it on his own as well ? That seems a bit hard to believe. It'll be even worse if Vegeta gets Ssj4 next week. They could avoid a continuity issue if they just say that it can't be used outside the demon realm for whatever reason, but I don't know if they've thought about that.

[SupremeKai25]

What's the problem with Vegeta not using SS3 in BoG?
He didn't even use SS3 vs Gomah

You can get away with Ssj3, but Goku not using Ssj4 again or even trying to access it on his own as well ? That seems a bit hard to believe. It'll be even worse if Vegeta gets Ssj4 next week. They could avoid a continuity issue if they just say that it can't be used outside the demon realm for whatever reason, but I don't know if they've thought about that.

There's two episodes remaining. You don't know anything about the lore and rules of this new form. You're making conclusions and saying "plot hole!" before they can even explain anything with the two episodes they have left.

This fandom forgets that this form is not GT's SSJ4. It doesn't have the same lore, it doesn't have the same rules. At the moment, until next Friday, it remains an unknown.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

You don't know anything about the lore and rules of this new form.

You're right, just as I don't know anything about the lore and rules of Trunks' Rage and Gohan's Beast forms. I'm sure we'll get those explanations any day now.

[SupremeKai25]

You don't know anything about the lore and rules of this new form.

You're right, just as I don't know anything about the lore and rules of Trunks' Rage and Gohan's Beast forms. I'm sure we'll get those explanations any day now.

Usually a story should be judged in its entirety, from start to finish. That implies waiting until the story is over before making too many assumptions and absolutes.

But it seems that nowadays viewers are fine with making hastily-concluded judgements when the story is only halfway through its climax.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Usually a story should be judged in its entirety, from start to finish. That implies waiting until the story is over before making too many assumptions and absolutes. But it seems that nowadays viewers are fine with making hastily-concluded judgements when the story is only halfway through its climax.

The Future Trunks arc concluded years ago and they didn't explain Trunks' form. The Superhero movie, its manga adaption, and its manga epilogue didn't explain Gohan's form. I'm not sure why I should expect them to explain this fake Ssj4 when they have a history of not explaining forms. You're right though, there are two episodes left so hopefully something is said about them. People however shouldn't get their hopes up.

[SupremeKai25]

Usually a story should be judged in its entirety, from start to finish. That implies waiting until the story is over before making too many assumptions and absolutes. But it seems that nowadays viewers are fine with making hastily-concluded judgements when the story is only halfway through its climax.

The Future Trunks arc concluded years ago and they didn't explain Trunks' form. The Superhero movie, its manga adaption, and its manga epilogue didn't explain Gohan's form. I'm not sure why I should expect them to explain this fake Ssj4 when they have a history of not explaining forms. You're right though, there are two episodes left so hopefully something is said about them. People however shouldn't get their hopes up.

Trunks' form wasn't created by Toriyama so that's an irrelevant point to bring up. It's just some Toei bullshit for spectacle. Why don't you bring up all the random nonsense power-ups Goku gets in the old Toei movies? I don't recall that weird "fake Super Saiyan" ever being explained.

Gohan's form doesn't need any explanation. Gohan's character shtick is that he is a prodigy who leaves everyone else in the dust whenever he gets big mad.

I suppose the writers could say that Gohan got his Beast form because he sat around for a bunch of minutes after wasting 7 years without ever training and then an old man who never appeared before gave him some weird magical BS... oh... wait... it reminds me of something from an old, 30 years old series.

Not like this new form needs an "explanation" either. Neva is an elder Namekian, Neva gives magic to Goku, that magic triggers an evolution in Goku. It should be quite obvious how this new form came to be. If only simple explanations were ever enough for the fandom.

[BernardoCairo]

The decision to set Daima before Super was already made before Toriyama joined the project, it was a decision made by Toei for whatever reason. It may have to do with the rights issues revolving around Super at the moment, rather than them not liking their previous work.

Yep, that's it. Also, Akio Iyoku said that production on Daima started 6 years ago, which means that Super Hero (a Dragon Ball Super story) was created alongside it. And of course, Toriyama never stopped helping Toyotaro with the manga until he passed away. So Dragon Ball Super isn't really going anywhere. It's probably just in legal hell right now (the anime).

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Trunks' form wasn't created by Toriyama so that's an irrelevant point to bring up. It's just some Toei bullshit for spectacle.

Toriyama still would've had to approve it.

Why don't you bring up all the random nonsense power-ups Goku gets in the old Toei movies? I don't recall that weird "fake Super Saiyan" ever being explained.

Because those movies weren't part of the main story, with Toriyama himself going as far as to say they were in their isolated alternate universes (or something to that effect).

Gohan's form doesn't need any explanation.

Of course not.

Gohan's character shtick is that he is a prodigy who leaves everyone else in the dust whenever he gets big mad.

No one's saying otherwise, we just want things explained when they happened. Not too high of an expectation.

Not like this new form needs an "explanation" either.

Not everyone is willing to give Toriyama a free pass for everything like you modern fans do.

Neva is an elder Namekian, Neva gives magic to Goku, that magic triggers an evolution in Goku. It should be quite obvious how this new form came to be.

What's the evolution ? Can Neva do this with others besides Saiyans ?

[Koitsukai]

What's the problem with Vegeta not using SS3 in BoG?
He didn't even use SS3 vs Gomah

You can get away with Ssj3, but Goku not using Ssj4 again or even trying to access it on his own as well ? That seems a bit hard to believe. It'll be even worse if Vegeta gets Ssj4 next week. They could avoid a continuity issue if they just say that it can't be used outside the demon realm for whatever reason, but I don't know if they've thought about that.

Well, the guy in your profile pic got SS4 but couldn't transform at will either, after the juice ran out. No tail, no form could be it here, too.
Since, I doubt there will be a Daima 2 happening before BoG, it's safe to assume it'll be a one-off thing. Probably tied to the tail, the daimakai or Neva himself.
Or maybe Daima is a side story part of its own continuity (even if it shares multiverse with DBS), just as GT is.

Also, as of now, it's not that much better than SS3. Clearly, not even close to Super Vegito. If, in BoG, he thinks not even Vegito cuts it, then SS4 is also useless. That's the only instance he could've tried SS4.

[BernardoCairo]

Trunks' form wasn't created by Toriyama so that's an irrelevant point to bring up. It's just some Toei bullshit for spectacle.

Yes, I agree with you here. Trunk's rage form, Blue Evolution, Blue Kaioken... Those weren't created by Toriyama. Toyotaro did adapt things like Blue Evolution back into the manga, but Toriyama himself never cared about it. So much so that he ignored these things in the films he wrote. That's why I always say that, despite having created the concepts for the arcs, Dragon Ball Super is not a work by Toriyama in the same sense as the original manga, especially in the anime. The movies being the obvious exception, of course.
Now, with things like Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo, I genuinely expect these forms to be explored further in the future. Including Toyotaro, who created Ultra Ego and has been working on Ultra Instinct for some time now. This new Super Saiyajin 4, I believe, has the potential to be more than these Toei forms from Super. We'll see.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Well, the guy in your profile pic got SS4 but couldn't transform at will either, after the juice ran out. No tail, no form could be it here, too.

GT isn't a prequel to anything. There isn't a whole series after it that has the characters pretending as if the events of GT didn't happen. Daima is a prequel, and we know for a fact that neither Goku or Vegeta ever attempted to use the form again in Super, which is set after. Will it be explained ? I hope so.

[Koitsukai]

Well, the guy in your profile pic got SS4 but couldn't transform at will either, after the juice ran out. No tail, no form could be it here, too.

GT isn't a prequel to anything. There isn't a whole series after it that has the characters pretending as if the events of GT didn't happen. Daima is a prequel, and we know for a fact that neither Goku or Vegeta ever attempted to use the form again in Super, which is set after. Will it be explained ? I hope so.

But why would they? why would they try a form that is barely a step-up from SS3? what could've becoming a little bit stronger than SS3 accomplish vs Black Rose? if SSG was destroyed by Broly, this SS4 would've been used as a belt by him.

The only thing that gets kinda murky is that "this is all I have" line from the BoG manga. For that, yes, a mention explaining why he can't freely access it is needed. But for the rest of the show? nah. It's like wondering why he didn't try the kaioken vs Perfect Cell.

[SupremeKai25]

Meh. I think it's pretty obvious the next episode or 20 will mention that the form is a one-off thing activated by Neva's magic in the Demon realm.

I'd say this should be obvious already since... you know... it's Neva who activates it with his magic.

[Kaboom]

Just think, if Goku was somehow able to at least keep his tail after this, then maybe he would have been able to gain the real Super Saiyan 4 form by the time Beerus shows up in Daima's continuity. Since the genuine article is at least on-par with SS Blue in power, it would have let Goku give Beerus an even better fight, maybe prompting him to use a whole 0.00001% of his true power instead of just 0.000001% like with Super Saiyan God.

[JulieYBM]

The Powers That Be do not have my precision with storytelling, so I fully expect Gokuu to just use Super Saiyan 4 again in some future project and either not have it mentioned or just have a brief throwaway line about it.

[super michael]

Meh. I think it's pretty obvious the next episode or 20 will mention that the form is a one-off thing activated by Neva's magic in the Demon realm.

I'd say this should be obvious already since... you know... it's Neva who activates it with his magic.

That is possible, that Neva power up is a one time thing. However normally potential unlock are not temporary.

Ultra Divine Water
Elder Guru
Babidi
Elder Kaioshin
SSG Ritual (the form was temporary, until it wasn't)
Dragon Balls to unlock potential and new form


If the form has something to do with being in demon world, wouldn't Goku have pointy ears like when he turns into his Oozaru form.
We just need to wait until all the episode are out.