T I E N

[VegettoEX]

Regarding other dub names...

Quite honestly, they're ones I'm either not even familiar with in the first place, or completely forget about. I think "Fasha" and the other Bardock-crew name changes are pretty good candidates, especially since someone like me (who's been a fan of the show for well over a decade) doesn't have a freakin' clue who's being talked about with those names.

Same goes for FUNimation's changes to the dragons in DBGT; I'm constantly referring to our respective "Tidbit" if I happen to come across those names. Maybe something like "Omega Shenron" (which you'll note is actually factually inaccurate for a name) -> "One-Star Dragon"...?

[Gogeta 00]

Regarding other dub names...

Quite honestly, they're ones I'm either not even familiar with in the first place, or completely forget about. I think "Fasha" and the other Bardock-crew name changes are pretty good candidates, especially since someone like me (who's been a fan of the show for well over a decade) doesn't have a freakin' clue who's being talked about with those names.

Same goes for FUNimation's changes to the dragons in DBGT; I'm constantly referring to our respective "Tidbit" if I happen to come across those names. Maybe something like "Omega Shenron" (which you'll note is actually factually inaccurate for a name) -> "One-Star Dragon"...?

If you want to filter them to there actual names there dub names are: Fasha is obviously Selipa, Shugesh is the dub name for Pumbukin, Borgos is Totapo's dub name and Tora is funimation's name for Toma

[Bardock the Mexican]

It's almost been the end of a decade and the fandom is going back into the same circles it was in when we still freaking out about the choice for the voice of Vegeta. Yes, we get Cartoon Network in Mexico and I did see the English dub. I ran screaming out of the room and changed it to the Mexican station with the Spanish dub and stopped freaking out*. Yeah, we as a fandom are really just going around in circles and beating the same horse into soup. It is really that dumb. About the guy and the wordfilter? Yeah, he should get used to the idea he isn't king of the world. He's probably seen Titanic too many times. I love it how newbs come in and start criticising the board and how old it looks and how it filters dub names to the real names. The new batch of newbs is dissapointing other than a few diamonds in the rough.


*If you think this is anything but a lame joke raise your hand so I can get a bead on your head with my rifle.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

There's also a word filter on Gokou, so it's not just dub names.

I bypass the filter on Gokou all the time, because even though I know it's wrong, it's the spelling I got used to back in the old fansub days. Likewise I refuse to call Dabura anything but 'Doubler' because old habits die hard. So I definitely see where some dub fans are coming from on the whole Tenshinhan/Tien debate - some people will just stick to what they're used to.

But it is Mike's site and he can do as he pleases, and in the long run I agree with his decision to put in such word filters. It weeds out the n00bs and corrects a lot of the dub names to the names most of us (even dub fans, because come on, admit it - many of us grew up on the dub as well, but we found out all about the Japanese version from fansites back in the day, and that's how we got into the original language version in the first place...this is the case with me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one) are familiar with. You don't have to be smart to know how to bypass the word filter, and largely, if you do, no one cares - if I say Gokou people still know who I'm talking about. But by and large, the filter provides a solution that most of us won't complain about, and if we don't like it...simply bypass it. It's really not a big enough deal for this argument to still be going on for so many pages.

Quite honestly, they're ones I'm either not even familiar with in the first place, or completely forget about. I think "Fasha" and the other Bardock-crew name changes are pretty good candidates, especially since someone like me (who's been a fan of the show for well over a decade) doesn't have a freakin' clue who's being talked about with those names.

Agreed. I had to have it explained to me who Fasha was very recently as I was reviewing a friend's preliminary draft for a fanfiction...I had simply thought Fasha was a Saiyajin OC he created and neglected to explain in his opening that it was an OC. It went a little something like this:

SG2-"Overall I think you've got an interesting take on the story here, but your descriptions could use a little work. For instance, you referenced some characters in here who weren't really properly introduced, which makes it a little clumsy for the reader to identify with."

Friend-"Which characters are you referring to, and where?"

SG2-"In the first paragraph, you mention **** [OC name I won't reveal to protect his identity] and Fasha. Which isn't a problem, but they should get properly introduced first so fans know these are your OC's and this is what they're all about. Basically, just a quick sentence describing their appearance and a bit of background, like maybe rank or unit or something in your case, would be fine. Just to identify them properly."

Friend-*laugh* "SG2, Fasha is an actual character, not an OC."

SG2-"...Who the Hell is Fasha?! I've been a DBZ fan for almost ten years and I have no idea who that is."

Friend-"She's Bardock's teammate from the Bardock movie. The only girl on the team."

SG2-"..."

Obviously I figured out FUNi just changed Selypa's name, but it was confusing for a while to see the name referenced and not knowing who it was talking about. So while people may still know it's 'the three eyed dude' when they see Tien, because it's a name that's been around for so long, there are plenty of names that those of us who stopped faithfully watching the dub during the Freeza Saga don't identify with, and that's why filters exist.

That, or to make it even simpler, because Mike said screw the rules, I have money authority.

[Wojak]

About the guy and the wordfilter? Yeah, he should get used to the idea he isn't king of the world. He's probably seen Titanic too many times. I love it how newbs come in and start criticising the board and how old it looks and how it filters dub names to the real names. The new batch of newbs is dissapointing other than a few diamonds in the rough.

What you miss to see is that he made a suggestion. Ever heard of that?
It's always nice with some fresh air in a closed box.

You were used to the Mexican dub, and was dissapointed in the "new" voice of Vegeta in the English dub. What makes you different to the "newb" in that you had your own opinions?

Just because of that you belong to the old-school members here it doesn't mean that you are one of the kings of this board.
And I can say that the old batch of "oldies" like you are what makes it so difficult trying something new that can be successful.

To add another thing: Just because of that good 'ol bagels are tasty for breakfast it doesn't mean that it's wrong to try something more modern like more fibers in your diet.
And what if it isn't that great? That's when we have the luxury to go back to bagels again.
Do you get my point?

Myself I like it like it is. But I also like when people come with new ideas. Even though they all can't be done.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

As for the grammatical argument, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and see if I can make that argument that there is a situation in which the word filter would prove a detriment to conversation.

Let us say that, for example, a thread like the one about the FReeZA organization. For example, about coincidences in names that relate in some fashion to the Dragon Ball franchise.

Obviously, any large quote from a site about, say, Pianist "Tien Hsieh, the national card game of Vietnam "Tien Len", or actor "Tien Miao" would be mauled in the translation.

What if, considering that Funimation is in Austin Texas, we wish to discuss whether or not those involved in Funimation's production ate at the Austin, Texas resturaunt "Tien Hong"?

Perhaps we feel actor James Tien would prove a better fit as an actor in one of the parts of the Dragon Ball live action film(despite his retirement)?

Hm. That's all I have for now, other than convincing someone to join and participate in these forums with the username "Tien".

[Onikage725]

@Suupaa Gohan 2-

I had a moment like that just playing Budokai 3 (I think that was the one, they bleed together). The one where Bardock's Ultimate move has him calling out to his fallen teammates for strength/inspiration as he launches the attack. It took me awhile to figure out that he was calling out his team's individual names. Until I saw the Bardock Special dubbed, I thought they had invented some weird ritualistic chant for the attack. Not one of the names is even remotely recognizable, except for Toma being off by one letter for no reason whatsoever.

[JulieYBM]

What if, considering that Funimation is in Austin Texas, we wish to discuss whether or not those involved in Funimation's production ate at the Austin, Texas resturaunt "Tien Hong"?

They are based in Dallas, actually. Or 'Flower Mounds'.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

What if, considering that Funimation is in Austin Texas, we wish to discuss whether or not those involved in Funimation's production ate at the Austin, Texas resturaunt "Tien Hong"?

They are based in Dallas, actually. Or 'Flower Mounds'.

Were they in Austin at some point in the past? I was sure they were. If they were, I wonder if they ate at Tien Hong?

[MajinVejitaXV]

Were they in Austin at some point in the past? I was sure they were. If they were, I wonder if they ate at Tien Hong?

I know they've been in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area since 1998 at least. I thought since their inception, but I could be wrong. I just remember being somewhat...err, ashamed since I'm from Dallas ;p

-Corey

[Kid Trunks]

2. His forum, his rules.

But does that mean we can't question the rules?

[JulieYBM]

2. His forum, his rules.

But does that mean we can't question the rules?

They've been questioned and answered.

[Kid Trunks]

2. His forum, his rules.

But does that mean we can't question the rules?

They've been questioned and answered.

I know. But it's just that statement seems so weird. I don't disagree with the word filter thing. It's just that I've seen that statement a lot, and it makes no sense to me. I mean, obviously it's his forum and his rules. That's why the thread was made, to query the rule. Saying "His forum and his rules" seems kinda dismissive, like saying "shut up and don't question it".

[DBHighDefinition]

At first, i thought T i e nshinhan was some sort of pun for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tien_Shan

[JulieYBM]

But does that mean we can't question the rules?

They've been questioned and answered.

I know. But it's just that statement seems so weird. I don't disagree with the word filter thing. It's just that I've seen that statement a lot, and it makes no sense to me. I mean, obviously it's his forum and his rules. That's why the thread was made, to query the rule. Saying "His forum and his rules" seems kinda dismissive, like saying "shut up and don't question it".

I honestly forgot to include a smiley, but basically I'm just saying he's answered the questions already.

[Casual Matt]

At first, i thought T i e nshinhan was some sort of pun for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tien_Shan

Actually, isn't it a pun on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_cuisine

I believe Tenshinhan is the Japanese reading of 天津菜.

[Adamant]

[Actually, isn't it a pun on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_cuisine

I believe Tenshinhan is the Japanese reading of 天津菜.

Almost - different kanji, though. Tenshinhan (天津飯) is a Japanese rice dish named after Tianjin (and, as you probably all figured out, directly translates to "Tianjin rice").

[Rena Rune]

What the hell. This is just elitism. It's the Megaman/Rockman debate all over again.

Like it or not, some people might prefer the dub name even if it's "incorrect". Personally I'm someone who dislikes "getting things wrong" - the Transformers movie bothers me. But once that misinterpretation exists, you have to respect people identify it to some degree.

Personally I like the name "Tien", it sounds cool.

Blocking a word just because it annoys you is extremely immature. People should be allowed to use the word most familiar with them, many fans of DB have only ever seen the english dubs. It doesn't mean they're not "real fans".

Bottom line is there are plenty of things that people can say that might annoy you, but literally forcing people to succumb to your opinion is sad and immature and will only turn people away.

(1) Don't post here. No-one's forced you to come here. No-one's forced you to, after reading and agreeing to the forum rules, stick around. There are plenty of other DB-based message boards out there, and if this isn't the place for you, I'll do anything I can to help you find a place that suits you.

But if you're wrong, you're wrong. It doesn't matter if you're wrong and annoying on your website, you're still wrong and annoying. If I set up my own site spouting racist nonsense it's not much better than if I posted it on another forum at the end of the day.

If people are "wrong" about a characters name that's a different story, and doesn't matter. Only when your actions affect others does it matter, you have it the wrng way around.

Even if Tien is incorrect, nowhere has it been justified that it is proper to force people to use the "correct" word.

(2) If you are so absolutely opposed to using the character's common name throughout the entire world with the exception of one company's television dubbing for one particular market, and yet STILL wish to post on this forum using that spelling... do so by circumventing the word filter.

The best known dub in what may be the second largest market. Either way it's what people know. The fact is most western DB fans, the people in our "world", will know him as Tien.

Also I don't think you understand the idea of alternative romanisations. At all. Not everything has to be translated in the same way, sometimes certain sounds are translated phonetically, etc.

(3) Provide a legitimate reason why or how this word filter could somehow cause grammatical harm to an everyday-use of the four letters "T / I / E / N" in a row in some other context that would necessitate the removal of said word filter.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=tie ... arch&meta=

Teke your pick.

(4) I don't have "peons"... only people that are able and willing to have civil discussions regardless of where they fall on any particular subject matter and enjoy engaging one another on this level, something you should already be familiar with.

This is not a civil discussion. The topic at hand is far too immature and simply not swearing does not make it mature and civil. Agreeing with you does not make people mature, opposing senseless authoritarianism on irrelevant issues does not make someone immature.

I was initially going to label the action as "cheap" (because really--I got into the series through the dub, and I've seldom used anything but Tien to address the character), but then I realized a couple of things:

1. Accuracy over preference. Tenshinhan is the character's name, point blank. It's not a case of transliteration or even bad translation--it was a concious choice on part of FUNimation to change the name of the character because they arbitrarily defined it as "more suited to an American audience."

It's the same thing with Mr. Satan's name being changed to Hercule--you could argue that it's "better," but the point is that it is not the character's name. You're not getting around that.

2. His forum, his rules. If you don't like that, then, with all due respect, get the fuck out. If Mike wanted to make a filter that changed "penis" to "spargel" because he thought it was funny, then that's his prerogative, and he is absolutely entitled to that. He handles the hosting, he has run this community for years, and it is his message board.

I've made a few word filters on my own board, myself, to correct both grammatical errors and to just change things that annoy me or that I think need to be corrected. Such things involve changing "would of" to "would have," capitalizing Is in sentences, and adding correct apostrophes and capitalization to certain contractions.

Whether or not these filters are seen as "intrusive" or not is an entirely subjective view. Because of this, it only makes sense that Mike would make the final decision in regards to whether or not it should exist, given that he runs the message board on his own time and he calls the shots. This isn't to say he isn't open to suggestion at all--in fact, from what I've seen, he's very open to it--but just to say that, ultimately, it's his choice what happens to this board, for better or worse.

3. It's funny seeing peoples' reactions. Seriously, I'm laughing at the fact that this is even considered an issue. Tenshinhan is the name of the character, Mike put the filter there, and it's not going away. How about you learn to accept that and go on with your life? It certainly helps avoid flamewars over the name of the character derailing otherwise good discussion.

Finally, I'd like to address the "casual fan" comment. I consider myself a casual fan, but I still enjoy this board and the various topics of discussion within it. I enjoy discussing an animated series that I enjoyed as a child, and continue to enjoy to this day. It brings back fond memories, really.

So yeah, I don't think this board is limited to any specific group of fans other than those who are intelligent. If you can articulate yourself, can reason your opinions, can be insightful, and even have a good sense of humor, then you're quite welcome here!

I grew up on the dub and didn't know much outside of it, but being on this forum has taught me a ton about what the series I had enjoyed for so long is really like. I think that's a great thing. And, hell, I think that if a word filter puts me into the habit of addressing a character by its proper name, then by god, let it stay.

I think some of us take this forum for granted, and don't really understand that it's honestly one of the best of its kind. A few years ago, I never would have even thought about joining a Dragonball-related community because of the negative stigma against the series, and the embarassing attitudes of a lot of its fans. I feel welcome here, though; like I've found a new home where I can discuss the series without feeling like an idiot or feeling like I can't have a real discussion. It's a great feeling.

So not only do I say "suck it up and deal with it, you whiners," I also say thank you, Mike, for making a forum where I actually feel like I can fit in. And thank you to all the members who made a great community like this flourish. You're all awesome.

This post got sort of long-winded and off the initial subject, but I'm glad to get a lot of this off my chest. I hope you guys enjoy my testimony, though.

A lack of maturity isn't just defined by OMG KRILLIN IS SO KAWAII ^_^, it can be defined by making retarded rules that force your opinions on others or supporting such decisions so you can try and feel mature yourself. Anyone who considers opposing opinion "whining" isn't mature enough to have an opinion of any worth anyway.

By the way, if Tien, why not Kururin, Buruma, etc.? You're removin a letter there, just like Tien adds one. Alternative romanisation at work.


Remember, you can edit your posts; there's no need to double-(or triple-)post.

[Innagadadavida]

I would venture to say that trying to establish a "mature" conversation while passive aggressively attempting to make those who disagree look foolish in the same breath, is not only immature, but also hypocritical.

And people keep saying "his forums his rules." That's true but he also has to consider that this is a community that he established. A group of people with a common interest. They all have different views on this interest and catering to one specific group within the community is not an example of a good leader. And establishing one set of rules that is never questioned or changed is not good for the community either. You said yourself, VegettoEX, the word filter will not change. So you have already made up your mind without listening to your own community.

Just listening to those who agree with you isn't right. Your opinion has a lot of weight on this community, especially with your very popular podcast. Many people uphold your opinion as truth. Those who don't shouldn't be dismissed.

[Rena Rune]

I would venture to say that trying to establish a "mature" conversation while passive aggressively attempting to make those who disagree look foolish in the same breath, is not only immature, but also hypocritical.

Me or them? I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I am not in a position to do so nor would I if I could.

The same logic posted earlier about the dub "disrespecting", applies here to you know.

Certain things are just taste, but some things are right and wrong. The problem here is that prefering the nam TIEN is WRONG whereas forcing your opinion on others is acceptable. Completely topsy turvy. Pointless authoritarianism should be opposed, not using a different fecking name for something. If I want to call Tien "Pink Supervisor" I'll goddamn call him Pink Supervisor.