Miracles wrote:Whis said there is a mortal who is stronger than a GoD who is stronger than Beerus, which confirms Jiren is stronger than Beerus.
Whis said Jiren perhaps surpassed the STATE of a GoD while he was suppressed, which confirms Jiren was stronger than all of the GoDs.
End of story.
How do you miss "PERHAPS" surpassed the state of a god then ignore Beerus contradicting whis accusation with arm wrestling [anime/manga] and then whis NEVER confirming if Beerus is lying about it?
JazzMazz wrote:Considering the director for the film Tatsuya Nagamine was able to make a three hour long storyboard for this movie, I wonder how that would translate to a television adaptation.
If a genuine initiative was taken to make sure the production of a new DB series weren't to fall apart like Super's anime did, and accounting for the change to a more animation capable designs, though I don't think we'd be getting any Boruto 65's, I think a anime adaptation of the arc, which ended up being 9 episodes long, could be perfectly competent and enjoyable.
This is said considering Supers movie retellings suffered from terrible production strains and an overly bloated length, with the BOG retelling being roughly four and half ours long, and the ROF anime retelling being three hours long, but poorly fleshed out.
Would people agree with the idea of a retelling with competent execution that expanded upon the contents of the movie for an anime adaptation?
Where was this ever said? All that was said was that Toriyama’s script was 3 hours long and they cut it. Nothing was ever stated that they drew the storyboards for all 3 hours of the script
Pretty sure Nagamine mentioned somewhere that when he storyboarded out the script, it ended up being 3 hours long.
emperior wrote:
If they do not retell the movie in a new Super show, yes. If they retell the movie and include the anime originals, then they will most likely include the cut parts of the original script, making the retelling also closer to Toriyama’s original vision and thus the retelling will be considered a more complete version.
In any case, the anime will continue being the main product. Both the anime and manga are continuations.
Gosh I can already picture that happening, but please no more retellings for God's sake.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:[he anime is not and never was the...okay let me not say "never"... but the TV show isn't the main continuity, anymore. May you please stop spreading this lie around? The manga and tv show are both canon, and neither one is more canon then the other.
That's not a lie, pal. The anime came first and it's not adapted from a weekly manga, Super manga only serves to promote the latter. Saying that the anime is the main product is not an opinion, but a fact.
Too bad it’s not a fact. Can’t believe people are still saying this years after Super began.
Thank you! This myth has been long since disproven already, and this notion that the "anime came first" well if you are talking about the tv show then it actually came out after the manga. Though the manga started off as promotional (FOR THE MOVIE!!!! NOT THE T. SHOW!!!!!) it has since become it's own thing and is as canon the show. Though I'm really interested if shueisha and toriyama are going to allow toyotaro to create a fleshed out arc of the movie or is it going to just promote it like he did with rof and Bog. It took toyotaro 12 months to do the black arc, wonder if it'll take the same with broly arc, hopefully even longer! This ToP arc is already 12 months long. Though I wish the entire arc was 18 chapters, would have really fleshed out this arc well, since some people think it's rush
JazzMazz wrote:Considering the director for the film Tatsuya Nagamine was able to make a three hour long storyboard for this movie, I wonder how that would translate to a television adaptation.
If a genuine initiative was taken to make sure the production of a new DB series weren't to fall apart like Super's anime did, and accounting for the change to a more animation capable designs, though I don't think we'd be getting any Boruto 65's, I think a anime adaptation of the arc, which ended up being 9 episodes long, could be perfectly competent and enjoyable.
This is said considering Supers movie retellings suffered from terrible production strains and an overly bloated length, with the BOG retelling being roughly four and half ours long, and the ROF anime retelling being three hours long, but poorly fleshed out.
Would people agree with the idea of a retelling with competent execution that expanded upon the contents of the movie for an anime adaptation?
Where was this ever said? All that was said was that Toriyama’s script was 3 hours long and they cut it. Nothing was ever stated that they drew the storyboards for all 3 hours of the script
Pretty sure Nagamine mentioned somewhere that when he storyboarded out the script, it ended up being 3 hours long.
Noah wrote:Exactly, also I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling is more plausible since Beerus (anime), noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament. Whis never implied that Belmod was strong than Beerus. We know that Jiren is stronger than the GoD from Universe 11, but not all GoDs.
Yes, thank you. Everything you stated is story fact from A to Z. The anime and manga coincide on this.
Pannaliciour wrote:
Miracles wrote:
Whis stated Jiren is only stronger than Belmound. Has nothing to do with Beerus.
Exactly. It's only questionable if UI Goku who beat Jiren is stronger than Beerus, it's an unknown.
Wow really, Whis stated that Jiren is GoD tier ( no specific name wich one of the GoD. Then he said perhaps even above. You see never ever he mention Belmouth. The context is that he is not (only) above his GoD but above GoD tier: so each one. Beerus is a GoD so therfore beerus << Jiren.
Read the clip carefully. Whis confirmed the "RUMOR" that the god that was surpassed by a mortal was Belmound in that clip. Whis even looks at him.
Read my reacton much better. He never mentioned Belmouth when he said he is GoD tier or perhaps above. That means if Jiren is above GoD tier (read, no specific name of Belmouth mentioned) Jiren automatically wins against Beerus.
The context is that Whis said above GoD tier and not just above Belmouth tier. That's the difference. He only looks at Belmouth because the rumour is from u11.
Pannaliciour wrote:Read my reacton much better. He never mentioned Belmouth when he said he is GoD tier or perhaps above. That means if Jiren is above GoD tier (read, no specific name of Belmouth mentioned) Jiren automatically wins against Beerus.
The context is that Whis said above GoD tier and not just above Belmouth tier. That's the difference. He only looks at Belmouth because the rumour is from u11.
"PERHAPS" even surpassed it [state of a god]...Not for sure.
*Whis looks at Belmound...*
"There is a universe [one universe] where lives a mortal [Jiren] even a god of destruction [Belmound] can't defeat."
Guys. If you look real close at the smaller storyboard images at the bottom of the big images, you can see that Nagamine has drawn out what seems to be an extended version of the DBS movie teaser fight.
It's times like this where I get sad that Rocketman left, or perhaps feel envious of him, for now I won't see his reaction to "there's a fourth Broly movie where he has a waifu, people say he's canon, only Goku can fight him, and he's stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto."
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
HeroR wrote:
The only god confirmed to have UI in any form is Beerus and even then UI is referred to a form beyond the gods.
Beerus is the only one that showed the ability in the manga, but in the anime all of them can do it. Either way, that’s the only thing that makes Goku different from Vegeta in powerlevel.
I’m fairly certain the implication is that none of the GoDs have mastered UI.
I never implied they have mastered it. It’s just implied the toll on them is much lighter than it is on Goku, given it’s described to be the state of the gods.
HeroR wrote:
Where was it stated in the anime that that all can do it?
Kai, the Kaioshin of Universe 1, is the one that implies it. He says Ultra Instinct is a state the gods can’t easily attain. The key word here is “easily”. He doesn’t say they can’t attain the ability.
Hugo Boss wrote:
Beerus is the only one that showed the ability in the manga, but in the anime all of them can do it. Either way, that’s the only thing that makes Goku different from Vegeta in powerlevel.
I’m fairly certain the implication is that none of the GoDs have mastered UI.
I never implied they have mastered it. It’s just implied the toll on them is much lighter than it is on Goku, given it’s described to be the state of the gods.
HeroR wrote:
Where was it stated in the anime that that all can do it?
Kai, the Kaioshin of Universe 1, is the one that implies it. He says Ultra Instinct is a state the gods can’t easily attain. The key word here is “easily”. He doesn’t say they can’t attain the ability.
Right. Not sure why everyone is saying they can’t when word “easily” was used.
I might get murdered for saying this but just because Goku can tap into UI doesn’t mean Beerus can’t beat him.
Hugo Boss wrote:Kai, the Kaioshin of Universe 1, is the one that implies it. He says Ultra Instinct is a state the gods can’t easily attain. The key word here is “easily”. He doesn’t say they can’t attain the ability.
That's some careful reading right there Hugo.
AnimeNation101 wrote:Guys. If you look real close at the smaller storyboard images at the bottom of the big images, you can see that Nagamine has drawn out what seems to be an extended version of the DBS movie teaser fight.
Meshack wrote:Too bad it’s not a fact. Can’t believe people are still saying this years after Super began.
Thank you! This myth has been long since disproven already, and this notion that the "anime came first" well if you are talking about the tv show then it actually came out after the manga. Though the manga started off as promotional (FOR THE MOVIE!!!! NOT THE T. SHOW!!!!!) it has since become it's own thing and is as canon the show.
It is a fact. It's published on V-Jump primarily known for video games and promotional products and we were told it was a "comicalization" from the start, from Toyotaro on the first chapter:
Toyotaro wrote:Getting to see a new DB anime series every week makes me too happy! With this comicalization, I want to make my own small contribution to the excitement, so everyone please check out the manga, too!
Sorry, but there are no evidences that the manga unlike the anime is the main product nor it's the actual continuation from Toriyama story.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Meshack wrote:Too bad it’s not a fact. Can’t believe people are still saying this years after Super began.
Thank you! This myth has been long since disproven already, and this notion that the "anime came first" well if you are talking about the tv show then it actually came out after the manga. Though the manga started off as promotional (FOR THE MOVIE!!!! NOT THE T. SHOW!!!!!) it has since become it's own thing and is as canon the show.
It is a fact. It's published on V-Jump primarily known for video games and promotional products and we were told it was a "comicalization" from the start, from Toyotaro on the first chapter:
Toyotaro wrote:Getting to see a new DB anime series every week makes me too happy! With this comicalization, I want to make my own small contribution to the excitement, so everyone please check out the manga, too!
Sorry, but there are no evidences that the manga unlike the anime is the main product nor it's the actual continuation from Toriyama story.
...
Darn, That's Some Compelling Evidence...
I know you're wrong since new and current evidence debunks your claim, and besdies all toyotaro could have meant was that he was comicalizing the movies! Not the TV show, and for the other link. That was Akira making a promotion for the super TV show, he even said he's the one who wrote the dragon ball Anime, which he kinda didn;t - but the clue was that the TV show would continue to the story after buu, just like the manga - except the manga would serve to promote the movie while the anime didn't.... so I guess during that time - you could say the show was the main thing, but ever since the movie, the manga and anime have become equal - and the dbs manga is considered the offcial continuation of the db manga, and if the manga was meant to only promote the anime? why doesen't the manga adapt the anime? And why does toriyama bother sending toyotaro draft to the arc when all toyotaro needs to do is draft the anime? Toyotaro dosen't even work for toei, and he himself said he's not invovled with the anime, so there's no "main continutation".Both manga and anime are equally viable stories to akiras. I can bring you the evidence if you so wish.
And IMO, I think the movie is going to be it's own continutity that's gets retconned by the manga and show.
Meshack wrote:Too bad it’s not a fact. Can’t believe people are still saying this years after Super began.
Thank you! This myth has been long since disproven already, and this notion that the "anime came first" well if you are talking about the tv show then it actually came out after the manga. Though the manga started off as promotional (FOR THE MOVIE!!!! NOT THE T. SHOW!!!!!) it has since become it's own thing and is as canon the show.
It is a fact. It's published on V-Jump primarily known for video games and promotional products and we were told it was a "comicalization" from the start, from Toyotaro on the first chapter:
Toyotaro wrote:Getting to see a new DB anime series every week makes me too happy! With this comicalization, I want to make my own small contribution to the excitement, so everyone please check out the manga, too!
Sorry, but there are no evidences that the manga unlike the anime is the main product nor it's the actual continuation from Toriyama story.
For the sake of accuracy...The DB Super story itself is labeled canon. However, it uses the Super manga as it's canon for continuity of Toriyama's original DB manga, not the anime...
[spoiler] [/spoiler]
Last edited by Miracles on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:
Thank you! This myth has been long since disproven already, and this notion that the "anime came first" well if you are talking about the tv show then it actually came out after the manga. Though the manga started off as promotional (FOR THE MOVIE!!!! NOT THE T. SHOW!!!!!) it has since become it's own thing and is as canon the show.
It is a fact. It's published on V-Jump primarily known for video games and promotional products and we were told it was a "comicalization" from the start, from Toyotaro on the first chapter:
Toyotaro wrote:Getting to see a new DB anime series every week makes me too happy! With this comicalization, I want to make my own small contribution to the excitement, so everyone please check out the manga, too!
Sorry, but there are no evidences that the manga unlike the anime is the main product nor it's the actual continuation from Toriyama story.
For the sake of accuracy...DB Super uses labels the manga canon for continuity of Toriyama's DB manga not the anime...
[spoiler] [/spoiler]
That could be talking about the franchise, instead of manga or anime - though that goku pic is differntly a toyotaro deisgn.... wait a minute... it did say drawn by toyotaro. NVM.
Exactly, both anime and manga are equal canon! It's a pointless argument to argue otherwise.
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Where was this ever said? All that was said was that Toriyama’s script was 3 hours long and they cut it. Nothing was ever stated that they drew the storyboards for all 3 hours of the script
Pretty sure Nagamine mentioned somewhere that when he storyboarded out the script, it ended up being 3 hours long.
I’ll wait for the full translation but I’m pretty sure they mentioned at some point that they only discovered that stuff needed to be cut because the original storyboard would have made the movie 3 hours long.
I’ll wait for the full translation but I’m pretty sure they mentioned at some point that they only discovered that stuff needed to be cut because the original storyboard would have made the movie 3 hours long.
They never said the storyboard was 3 hours long. They said the movie was supposed to be 90 minutes but Toriyama’s script was twice that so they had to cut some stuff. They even referenced that in the first DBMFL interview.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
Why does the question of whether the manga is canon or the show is canon give people such a boner?
What matters, for the sake of continuity, is to see what material the current series references for past events. DB Super has shown - again and again - clips from DB and DBZ for past events. Which means that for the DB Super anime, DB and DBZ (the anime, not the movies) are its canon. That's it. End of story. Stop worrying about whether the manga is more canon or not - that's irrelevant. All you need to know is that the Super anime wants you to remember the DB anime and the DBZ anime as lore. Likewise, if the manga ignores the anime, that means that for the manga only the previous Shonen Jump DB issues are canon. They are two different takes on the same story, none is more canon than the other (which is *probably* why the creators avoid giving a concrete answer).
Nickolaidas wrote:Why does the question of whether the manga is canon or the show is canon give people such a boner?
What matters, for the sake of continuity, is to see what material the current series references for past events. DB Super has shown - again and again - clips from DB and DBZ for past events. Which means that for the DB Super anime, DB and DBZ (the anime, not the movies) are its canon. That's it. End of story. Stop worrying about whether the manga is more canon or not - that's irrelevant. All you need to know is that the Super anime wants you to remember the DB anime and the DBZ anime as lore. Likewise, if the manga ignores the anime, that means that for the manga only the previous Shonen Jump DB issues are canon. They are two different takes on the same story, none is more canon than the other (which is *probably* why the creators avoid giving a concrete answer).
Can we go back to the topic now, please?
Everyone gets so caught up on the tiny details of what is or is not canon. But honestly, the Super anime decided that future Trunks suddenly has blue hair and that makes no sense. The “canon” is really whatever Toriyama comes up with and it’s extremely loose.
“Super,” in manga or anime form IS the canon and the major plot points are what matter. Think of it as a story told by word of mouth where the details get mixed around a bit.
