Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

1: Vados = 15.62500 - 16.20000

2: Whis = 15.00000

3: Beerus = 10.00000

4: Champa = 9.00000

5: Golden Freeza = 8.33333

6: SSJB Vegeta = 8.00000
-SBG = 0.16000

7: SSJB Goku = 8.00000
-SBG = 0.16000

8: Super Vegetto = 0.50000
SSJ2 = 1.00000
SSJ3 = 4.00000

9: Super Buu(U.Gohan) = 0.30000

10: U. Gohan = 0.18000

[Noah]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but I have a doubt about this:

Spoiler:

With Piccolo saying that Cell is far stronger than the androids he means 17 and 18? So Pre Humans Imperfect Cell was already above 17 and 18? That doesn't make any sense for me...

[ZombieVito]

Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.5
Context: after Vegeta says they should just let Cell absorb the androids
Piccolo: “That would mean that Cell will greatly surpass No.17 and co., who you absolutely couldn’t handle.”

[Noah]

Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.5
Context: after Vegeta says they should just let Cell absorb the androids
Piccolo: “That would mean that Cell will greatly surpass No.17 and co., who you absolutely couldn’t handle.”

Well, thanks Zombie

That scan translation was strange

[ahill1]

Piccolo meant that Cell would exceed the androids if he will absorb them. It makes little sense Cell (ginger town) be stronger that the Androids, since Kamiccolo could deal with Imperfect Cell without many difficulties.

[Noah]

Piccolo meant that Cell would exceed the androids if he will absorb them. It makes little sense Cell (ginger town) be stronger that the Androids, since Kamiccolo could deal with Imperfect Cell without many difficulties.

Exactly what I meant, but the way Piccolo said that made me interpret different

[RandomGuy96]

Those are the numbers given. I'm saying that, if you'd like them to fit, it's easy to just assume that Ten's 250 was a slightly suppressed level, which would then match with Goku's 334 number. Therefore, there is no problem with the official numbers that is not already a problem with the manga numbers. Therefore, your point that the guidebook number for Piccolo being "wrong" is bogus.

Once again, I'm not going to take it. Would be silly AT give us a fake number for Tenshinhan; If he gave 250, then Tenshinhan has 250. But it's still a bad number, as Goku and Tenshinhan showed strength on par on the 23rd Budokai. My problem is that Piccolo Daimao cannot be 260, since Tenshinhan is stronger than him.

I read the fight. Goku dominated early on; he blocks all of Ten's blows without an expression that indicates effort, while Tenshinhan is baring his teeth and sweating, lands the only actual blow in the warm-up, and by the end of the warm-up Ten is huffing and puffing while Goku is fine. Sometimes he has a neutral look, while other times he's smiling and clearly taking Ten's strength lightly. This is particularly easy to see in their grapple. Your theory that Goku was only superior in skill doesn't actually match what is shown.

You ignored my arguments. Why Goku showed no effort? Because Goku had more power than he had shown. The power he used against Tenshinhan was only a small part of its maximum power. Unlike Tenshinhan, who was giving his maximum at that time. Why Tenshinhan was breathless and Goku didn't? Because Goku learn to fight without making unnecessary movements, it was part of the training of Kami. But in power wise, Tenshinhan and Goku were almost the same, as noted by Krillin.

Kuririn: "This is incredible!! They're perfectly evenly matched!!"
Chi Chi: "You mean you two... can see them...?!

What ever comes into another point: the crowd being able to follow the movements was not something worthy of note by anyone: there was nobody who said: "it's amazing that you can follow this fight", while Yamcha and Krillin being able to follow the movements of Goku and Ten was something of note by Chi Chi. Which Toriyama's intention to show that Krillin and Yamcha were able to stay with Goku and Ten? It was the same show that the crowd could tell what was going on in the fight? Certainly not. If you can't understand a single scenario of a story, I'm just sorry.

Piccolo could not follow the movements of Freeza (final form), but he could tell what was going on in his fight with Goku. Are completely different things.

You're not even trying to make sense. "Toriyama's number is right despite not matching Ten's fight, while this other official number is wrong because it does not Ten's fight". Unless you're outright going to say that the manga's own numbers are wrong, dismissing other numbers for doing the exact same thing the manga does is ridiculous.

Actually, that's total BS. You can still get tired while fighting even if you're suppressed. Goku didn't- and showed no strain while overpowering Ten- because his suppressed strength was still above Ten's. Similarly, nothing is ever implied about him not being tired because he didn't make "unnecessary movements". We see the movements he makes, and there's frankly no reason he'd be less tired than Ten if their strengths were equal. Which they were quite plainly shown not to be.

Nobody needed to say it was amazing. Because we saw them follow the fight, and we saw them dodge one of Goten's ki blasts. Your point is extra nonsensical since Ten could easily see Goku and Piccolo's fight as well, when Goku's speed was explicitly the same as his weighted self at the Budokai. He even moved Goku out of the way of one of Piccolo's attacks.

Which is another inconsistency. If you can't follow someone's movements, you can't follow their fight. Kami makes this clear.

[ahill1]

You're not even trying to make sense. "Toriyama's number is right despite not matching Ten's fight, while this other official number is wrong because it does not Ten's fight". Unless you're outright going to say that the manga's own numbers are wrong, dismissing other numbers for doing the exact same thing the manga does is ridiculous.

If AT said Tenshinhan's pl 250, is because he has 250. That's my point. Now, it's an inconsistent number? Yes, why Tenshinhan showed strength on par with Goku (Weighted). Oh, but we can assume other things; We can assume that Goku (Weighted) evolved more than Tenshinhan. 23rd Budokai implies that there is a great distance between Goku (Weighted) and Goku (w/o weights), but by Toriyama there is only a distance of 1.2 x. Understand my point? Come on, man, it's not that hard.

Actually, that's total BS. You can still get tired while fighting even if you're suppressed. Goku didn't- and showed no strain while overpowering Ten- because his suppressed strength was still above Ten's. Similarly, nothing is ever implied about him not being tired because he didn't make "unnecessary movements". We see the movements he makes, and there's frankly no reason he'd be less tired than Ten if their strengths were equal. Which they were quite plainly shown not to be.

You call that an argument? lol. Again: do not make unnecessary movements was part of the training of Mr. Popo. KAME-Sen ' nin get up only concerned the difference in breath between Goku and Tien Shinhan. At no time Kame Sen ' nin compares its forces. Why Tenshinhan was breathless and Goku didn't? Oh, because part of the training of Goku was learn to fight without making unnecessary movements ... simple as that. Oh, and Krillin says that Goku and Tien Shinhan are completely even. Maybe Goku is slightly stronger than Tien Shinhan, but obviously is not by that much and the 3 eyes is stronger than Piccolo Daimao Young. So I say, the number 260 for the Piccolo is wrong.

Nobody needed to say it was amazing. Because we saw them follow the fight, and we saw them dodge one of Goten's ki blasts. Your point is extra nonsensical since Ten could easily see Goku and Piccolo's fight as well, when Goku's speed was explicitly the same as his weighted self at the Budokai. He even moved Goku out of the way of one of Piccolo's attacks.

You're missing the point mate. What's the point of showing the audience could follow the movements? Show that they're stronger than Frieza? Certainly not ... just save time and work by Toriyama. But what's the point to show that Yamcha and Krillin could see Goku and Tien Shinhan movements while no one in the audience could, even Chi Chi? Demonstrate that the two evolved to a point where they could pick up very fast movements for a level, for example, the Kame-Sen ' nin. The situations are not even remotely similar. Is very different to a scenario in which everyone could follow the movements of a fight, a scenario in which only a few could follow the movements, which was the case with Krillin and Yamcha, where there is even a character who says: "it's amazing that you can see these movements".

But as I said before, it is better not to continue this discussion. You have a very distorted view of the manga.

Which is another inconsistency. If you can't follow someone's movements, you can't follow their fight. Kami makes this clear.

Piccolo could not follow the movements of Frieza, but he could tell what was going on in the fight Frieza Vs Goku. So is an inconsistency? What's your point? Your arguments don't make minimal sense. You are trying to use an example from the 25th Budokai, where the spec could see what was going on in the fight, which is at least an inconsistency, to justify the fact that Krillin and Yamcha can see the movements of Goku and Tien Shinhan, which there's nothing inconsistent? lol ridiculous. Or are you trying to say that the 23rd Budokai is also an inconsistency? Even more ridiculous. What does show that Vegeta was the only one to be able to follow the movements of Frieza? Demonstrate that Vegeta was at a level well ahead than others. What does show that Yamcha and Krillin were the only ones to be able to follow the movements of Tenshinhan and Goku? Demonstrate that these were on a level well ahead than others. What is the meaning of showing everyone in the audience could see Goten and Trunks fighting? Demonstrate that all were stronger than Frieza? Ridiculous. Stop by here, it's a waste of time to argue with someone who doesn't make an ounce of sense in your arguments.

[Kaboom]

You're not even trying to make sense.

Actually, that's total BS.

You call that an argument? lol.

Ridiculous. Stop by here, it's a waste of time to argue with someone who doesn't make an ounce of sense in your arguments.

There's no need for these kinds of comments. If you can't come to an agreement on something politely and respectfully, then it's probably better not to have a discussion at all.

[ahill1]

Please show me your numbers for:

Piccolo Daimao (Old)
Piccolo Daimao (Young)
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai)
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai
Yamcha (23rd Budokai)
Kuririn (23rd Budokai)
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai)

[Lord Beerus]

Please show me your numbers for:

Piccolo Daimao (Old)
Piccolo Daimao (Young)
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai)
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai
Yamcha (23rd Budokai)
Kuririn (23rd Budokai)
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai)

Piccolo Daimao (Old) - 220
Piccolo Daimao (Young) - 260
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai) - 130
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai - 210
Yamcha (23rd Budokai) - 190
Kuririn (23rd Budokai) - 200
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai) - 250

[LightBing]

Piccolo Daimao (Old) - 200
Piccolo Daimao (Young) - 230
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai) - 102
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai - 170
Yamcha (23rd Budokai) - 171
Kuririn (23rd Budokai) - 199
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai) - 240

[ZombieVito]

Please show me your numbers for:

Piccolo Daimao (Old)
Piccolo Daimao (Young)
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai)
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai
Yamcha (23rd Budokai)
Kuririn (23rd Budokai)
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai)

Didn't you ask this before?

Piccolo Daimao (Old): 220
Piccolo Daimao (Young): 260
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai): 130
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai: 210
Yamcha (23rd Budokai): 170
Kuririn (23rd Budokai): 195
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai): 240

[DBZAOTA482]

Please show me your numbers for:

Piccolo Daimao (Old)
Piccolo Daimao (Young)
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai)
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai
Yamcha (23rd Budokai)
Kuririn (23rd Budokai)
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai)

Piccolo Daimao (Old) - 200
Piccolo Daimao (Young) - 240
Chi Chi (23rd Budokai) - 150
Cyborg Tao Pai Pai - 170
Yamcha (23rd Budokai) - 190
Kuririn (23rd Budokai) - 200
Tenshinhan (23rd Budokai) - 250

Going by scouter numbers...

[DanielSSJ]

Here's a question. What if Goku and Gohan did fuse in the Boo Arc? How strong would this hypothetical Gokhan be? I'm interested to see where you guys put him.

[Captain Space]

Here's a question. What if Goku and Gohan did fuse in the Boo Arc? How strong would this hypothetical Gokhan be? I'm interested to see where you guys put him.

According to Old Kai they could beat Buutenks in base, so probably stronger than Vegetto.

[Angelus]

Your estimates of the Buu Arc base Saiyans' power levels?

[ZombieVito]

Goku: 80 million.
Vegeta: 64 --> 80 million.
Gohan: 60 --> 62 --> 75 million.
Trunks: 50 --> 52 --> 56 million.
Goten: 48 --> 50 --> 54 million.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

If you're only asking for numbers, this should have been posted in the Battle Power thread.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Goku: 75.000.000
Vegeta: 72.000.000
Gohan: 67.000.000
Goten: 3.000.000 (i always see many fans putting him on the same level as Goku was when fighting final form Freeza)
Trunks: 3.100.000