Unpopular DB opinions

[Gog]

Don't know how much unpopular it is, but Goku vs Freeza is really boring until Goku becomes SSJ. Only from there until the end it's when the fight gets exciting.

This opinion is extremely unpopular, but I share it with you. Additionally, I found most of the fight with Frieza tedious because it lasted so long .

Here's another: long fights can ruin arcs that start out with great potential altogether.

I don't think that anyone disagrees with the idea that long fights can ruin stuff, if there to long, and tedious.

[ABED]

They can kill momentum, that's for sure. Although I have the exact opposite problem from you two, I found the fight perfectly fine until Goku became a Super Saiyan. After that, everything just drags to absolute hell.

I would say it drags before Goku becomes a Super Saiyan or at least before he begins fighting Freeza. It's all a waiting game before then. After turning Super Saiyan, it becomes far less one sided.

[Cetra]

I hate the clown god.

[ABED]

I hate the clown god.

Is that unpopular? No one likes clowns.

[Doctor.]

I hate the clown god.

Is that unpopular? No one likes clowns.

I like clowns.

[ABED]

I hate the clown god.

Is that unpopular? No one likes clowns.

I like clowns.

Off with your head!

[Doctor.]

I think the worst part about Cell arc Vegeta isn't that he makes bad decisions, or that he's extremely cocky, those are to be expected after achieving Super Saiyan. I think what's most disappointing is that it's a Vegeta who comes from the Namek arc, an arc where he literally cried, felt fear and begged for the first time in his life. And yet, after that, it's all completely forgotten, despite pride being a big deal of Vegeta's character. No character ever mentions it and Vegeta doesn't use it for self-improvement or introspection. Nothing.

[ABED]

I don't see that as being forgotten or a step back. The Vegeta before Namek wouldn't have stayed on Earth, much less been as "peaceful" as he was. The way I've always taken it is he cried and like a bully who breaks down in front of people, he lashes out. His improvement happens gradually and subtly in some cases.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think the worst part about Cell arc Vegeta isn't that he makes bad decisions, or that he's extremely cocky, those are to be expected after achieving Super Saiyan. I think what's most disappointing is that it's a Vegeta who comes from the Namek arc, an arc where he literally cried, felt fear and begged for the first time in his life. And yet, after that, it's all completely forgotten, despite pride being a big deal of Vegeta's character. No character ever mentions it and Vegeta doesn't use it for self-improvement or introspection. Nothing.

But Vegeta wasn't even begging for forgiveness or compassion... he wanted Goku as a fellow Saiyan to avenge his people. That doesn't really warrant a major turning point for his character as so much as give insight for him being the way he is and shows he's not beyond redemption.

I hate the clown god.

Is that unpopular? No one likes clowns.

Yes, clowns are the epitome of evil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9KGfgg-d8s

[Doctor.]

But Vegeta wasn't even begging for forgiveness or compassion... he wanted Goku as a fellow Saiyan to avenge his people. That doesn't really warrant a major turning point for his character as so much as give insight for him being the way he is and shows he's not beyond redemption.

He begged for help and he cried out of fear and helplessness. Both things should have been a blow to his pride yet they act like it never happened the following arc.

[kinisking]

But Vegeta wasn't even begging for forgiveness or compassion... he wanted Goku as a fellow Saiyan to avenge his people. That doesn't really warrant a major turning point for his character as so much as give insight for him being the way he is and shows he's not beyond redemption.

He begged for help and he cried out of fear and helplessness. Both things should have been a blow to his pride yet they act like it never happened the following arc.

I think his desperation from Freeza is what caused him to want super Saiyan so bad. It was the thing that defeated him after all.

[ABED]

He begged for help and he cried out of fear and helplessness. Both things should have been a blow to his pride yet they act like it never happened the following arc.

Because he's still insecure. We need to distinguish between arrogance and genuine pride. Vegeta doesn't have pride, he has arrogance. He has to have an audience that knows he's better than them. It makes him feel powerful to have power over others. Freeza destroyed his pseudo pride because he was so much more powerful than Vegeta. Of course he's going to act like it never happened. That would require him to face reality. That is his arc. It's not until Vegeta's speech at the end of the Buu arc that he finally lets go.

And I don't recall him begging for help.

[Gog]

With all this talk about Vegeta I have another unpopular opinion. Vegeta should never, ever have managed to go super saiyan.

[ABED]

With all this talk about Vegeta I have another unpopular opinion. Vegeta should never, ever have managed to go super saiyan.

Why not?

[Gog]

With all this talk about Vegeta I have another unpopular opinion. Vegeta should never, ever have managed to go super saiyan.

Why not?

Because it would have infuriated Vegeta that he was incapable of going super saiyan, and Son Goku could, eventually he would have to have admitted that Son Goku was better than him. He could still be useful, he just masters Ozaru now.

[Doctor.]

He needed to have turned Super Saiyan as the battle powers in the series escalated and other characters had to keep up with Goku, but in a hypothetically redone version of the series, I think he should have only achieved the state either when he gets possessed by Babidi or at some point before he sacrifices himself. It would have been much more cathartic that way.

[ABED]

With all this talk about Vegeta I have another unpopular opinion. Vegeta should never, ever have managed to go super saiyan.

Why not?

Because it would have infuriated Vegeta that he was incapable of going super saiyan, and Son Goku could, eventually he would have to have admitted that Son Goku was better than him. He could still be useful, he just masters Ozaru now.

His problem wasn't external. I would argue that turning Super Saiyan still put him on the path towards coming tot he conclusion that Goku was #1. If he couldn't turn Super Saiyan, he would probably blame Goku's greater strength as a matter of luck or any number of rationalizations.

[Gog]

Why not?

Because it would have infuriated Vegeta that he was incapable of going super saiyan, and Son Goku could, eventually he would have to have admitted that Son Goku was better than him. He could still be useful, he just masters Ozaru now.

His problem wasn't external. I would argue that turning Super Saiyan still put him on the path towards coming tot he conclusion that Goku was #1. If he couldn't turn Super Saiyan, he would probably blame Goku's greater strength as a matter of luck or any number of rationalizations.

Vegeta's problem was that he turned super saiyan, he became more arrogant, and cruel, as he had just achieved what he had sought for so long. Super Saiyan, yes turning super saiyan still put him on the path of good, but honestly I'd argue that it held him back a few years. And for why I'd want him to transform against Freeza? I want to see him get crushed

[ABED]

How did he become MORE cruel? Before turning Super Saiyan the guy killed mountains worth of people - men, women, and children. Achieving something important won't satisfy a person if they have deep psychological issues. Look at Dave Mustaine from Megadeth. He was kicked out of Metallica, formed his own band, was successful by any rational standard, but because Metallica was more successful, he had a deep resentment towards them and didn't feel he was a success. He held onto that psychological baggage for decades.

[Gog]

How did he become MORE cruel? Before turning Super Saiyan the guy killed mountains worth of people - men, women, and children. Achieving something important won't satisfy a person if they have deep psychological issues. Look at Dave Mustaine from Megadeth. He was kicked out of Metallica, formed his own band, was successful by any rational standard, but because Metallica was more successful, he had a deep resentment towards them and didn't feel he was a success. He held onto that psychological baggage for decades.

The super saiyan form makes the user more more bloody minded, but in Vegeta's case it wouldn't have changed much as he's a bastard. Even in the regular canon that happened to Vegeta, he got resentful of Goku, who was always seemingly four steps ahead of him. With Vegeta it's unavoidable either way, but I'd prefer the option where he transforms at the end of the series, before BOG, and ROF.