rereboy wrote:Besides having been a major influence for them, sure.
Because those authors crawled up their own assholes chasing the feel-good horseshit they imagine DB to be. It's the same phenomena that makes people think Goku is a role model or a great father - they're confusing the joy of their childhood with what the series actually is.
rereboy wrote:Besides having been a major influence for them, sure.
Because those authors crawled up their own assholes chasing the feel-good horseshit they imagine DB to be. It's the same phenomena that makes people think Goku is a role model or a great father - they're confusing the joy of their childhood with what the series actually is.
Er... I don't agree. Just because Dragon Ball was a major influence, it doesn't mean that their series have to be very similar in every way or that if they aren't it's because they are only similar to what they imagine Dragon Ball to be. If anyone is confusing things, I think it's far more likely that you are the one who is confusing things, namely due to your apparent "hatred" for these series.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Arguably the biggest mistake GT made was not leaving Goku as a an adult and turning him into a kid.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
BlazingBarrrager wrote:Agreed. That was probably the biggest, unnecessary nerf Toei could give Goku.
Nerf? He's even stronger as a kid. All that extra mass got converted into energy.
Yet he got his ass kicked by space worms and couldn't hold SSJ3 for more than a minute before getting his tail back.
And then went on to roflstomp SSJ Gohan and Goten in base form, which Vegeta couldn't do.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:
And then went on to roflstomp SSJ Gohan and Goten in base form, which Vegeta couldn't do.
Last time I watched Vegeta had no problems with Babyhan and -ten and the only reason he lost was because Baby did the same thing he always did.
Vegeta had to go Super Saiyan to fight Gohan and Goten, Goku didn't need to transform at all. He just wrecks both of them easily.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:
And then went on to roflstomp SSJ Gohan and Goten in base form, which Vegeta couldn't do.
Last time I watched Vegeta had no problems with Babyhan and -ten and the only reason he lost was because Baby did the same thing he always did.
Vegeta had to go Super Saiyan to fight Gohan and Goten, Goku didn't need to transform at all. He just wrecks both of them easily.
Because Goku was stronger in general. That does not mean Vegeta had that much more problems. They always are pretty much in the same league with one having a slight edge over the other. In Z the gaps often were bigger but the two of them at least could be compared while impossible fort others. Supports consistent powers of Goku and Vegeta as both very close in my eyes and even fits the new God power thing in which they also are very much equal.
Also Goku did fight the brainwashed Gohan and Goten that were remote-controlled by Baby. Vegeta did fight Baby who completely was inside of Gohan's body. In both cases Baby is controlling or manipulating a body but who knows how much of a power up it is when he is directly inside of the body and using it as main vessel.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy
feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
Cetra wrote:Because Goku was stronger in general. That does not mean Vegeta had that much more problems. They always are pretty much in the same league with one having a slight edge over the other. In Z the gaps often were bigger but the two of them at least could be compared while impossible fort others. Supports consistent powers of Goku and Vegeta as both very close in my eyes and even fits the new God power thing in which they also are very much equal.
Also Goku did fight the brainwashed Gohan and Goten that were remote-controlled by Baby. Vegeta did fight Baby who completely was inside of Gohan's body. In both cases Baby is controlling or manipulating a body but who knows how much of a power up it is when he is directly inside of the body and using it as main vessel.
Yes he did. Watch both fights. Vegeta even as a Super Saiyan is having difficulty and had to reveal all his power to break free of Gohan and Gotens attack. Goku just needed his base form to easily, and I mean easily curb stomp them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRHH63qWaM
Also I don't think anything suggests Gohan or Goten got weaker once Baby left their bodies. Even against Super 17 Goku does a lot better than Vegeta does in just SSJ.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
dbzfan7 wrote:And then went on to roflstomp SSJ Gohan and Goten in base form, which Vegeta couldn't do.
Well, it didn't seem like Gohan and Goten (or even Goku) were going all out. Gohan and Goten was still laughing afterwards, they hardly seemed phased after Goku's attack, and Goku was going to resort to a Kamehameha.
I think Krueger summed it up well:
Spoiler:
Krueger wrote:The fight between Base Goku and SS Gohan-Baby isn't as conclusive as so many would say. It's implied Gohan wasn't giving it his all.
The fight starts with Goten and Gohan blasting the house to bits, and then two blasts follow Goku and Pan. Goku and Pan survive with some scratches and Goten confronts Pan, to which Gohan says he wants to finish her off. He chucks an even bigger blast and Goku jumps in to block, but him and Pan are sent flying into the ground. When Goku goes back up to fight, Goten blasts him from behind, but Goku easily backhands it away with a smirk on his face (note that Goten is also smirking the whole time, so he's obviously not worried about what Goku just did). Gohan and Goten double-team Goku, who blocks all of their punches, then Goku uses a shockwave to send them back, which is when he attacks a stunned Gohan and then blasts him away. He goes after a stunned Goten next, doing the same thing. Gohan and Goten, now both in their regular forms, cackle and prepare to blast Goku, who prepares to counter with a Kamehameha. Then Satan intervenes and the fight is over.
Goku never really owned his sons. He was able to block them simultaneously in a melee bout, but the blast from Gohan that knocked out Pan managed to damage him quite a bit as well, and he only really ever held a swift advantage when he attacked them while they were stunned from his shockwave. They were still prepared to fight him again after recovering, prior to Vegeta-Baby showing up.
Also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta wasn't going all out until he powered up at the end, trying not to hurt Goku's kids.
dbzfan7 wrote:Even against Super 17 Goku does a lot better than Vegeta does in just SSJ.
dbzfan7 wrote:And then went on to roflstomp SSJ Gohan and Goten in base form, which Vegeta couldn't do.
Well, it didn't seem like Gohan and Goten (or even Goku) were going all out. Gohan and Goten was still laughing afterwards, they hardly seemed phased after Goku's attack, and Goku was going to resort to a Kamehameha.
I think Krueger summed it up well:
Spoiler:
Krueger wrote:The fight between Base Goku and SS Gohan-Baby isn't as conclusive as so many would say. It's implied Gohan wasn't giving it his all.
The fight starts with Goten and Gohan blasting the house to bits, and then two blasts follow Goku and Pan. Goku and Pan survive with some scratches and Goten confronts Pan, to which Gohan says he wants to finish her off. He chucks an even bigger blast and Goku jumps in to block, but him and Pan are sent flying into the ground. When Goku goes back up to fight, Goten blasts him from behind, but Goku easily backhands it away with a smirk on his face (note that Goten is also smirking the whole time, so he's obviously not worried about what Goku just did). Gohan and Goten double-team Goku, who blocks all of their punches, then Goku uses a shockwave to send them back, which is when he attacks a stunned Gohan and then blasts him away. He goes after a stunned Goten next, doing the same thing. Gohan and Goten, now both in their regular forms, cackle and prepare to blast Goku, who prepares to counter with a Kamehameha. Then Satan intervenes and the fight is over.
Goku never really owned his sons. He was able to block them simultaneously in a melee bout, but the blast from Gohan that knocked out Pan managed to damage him quite a bit as well, and he only really ever held a swift advantage when he attacked them while they were stunned from his shockwave. They were still prepared to fight him again after recovering, prior to Vegeta-Baby showing up.
Also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta wasn't going all out until he powered up at the end, trying not to hurt Goku's kids.
dbzfan7 wrote:Even against Super 17 Goku does a lot better than Vegeta does in just SSJ.
Goku was toyed with. 17 was humoring him.
Goku clearly beat them both effortlessly. Vegeta had to show more effort and power up as an SSJ to max to get Goten and Gohan off of him. Goku does one little shockwave in base and blows them both away. After the attacks both revert to base even. They ain't finished, but they know Goku won't kill them. Goku's entire showing was far better than Vegeta's. Even while 17 toys with Goku, he also toyed with everyone else since he coulda killed them, Goku still does better than everyone before him.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
