Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

So is really Kaioshin more powerful than Piccolo or not? I always had this doubt

Piccolo himself said Kaioshin is stronger. What is there to doubt?

[Noah]

What is there to doubt?

9. Kaioshin should not be higher than Piccolo. Piccolo just used that power statement as an excuse for forfeiting and only backed down due to unknowingly sensing Kaioshin's godly presence.

8. The first thing Piccolo wanted to do after forfeiting was ask if Kaioshin was really Dai Kaio-sama. When they were about to fight Piccolo couldn't even figure out why he was holding back subconsciously and he begins to question what Shin was then Shin dug into his mind about him figuring out who he is. Kaioshin even begins to think to himself about Piccolo being a former guardian and was starting to pieces together.

[DanielSSJ]

So is really Kaioshin more powerful than Piccolo or not? I always had this doubt

Literally everything that directly compares them says that he is.

People just don't like it because apparently he's not "badass" enough.

This. Everything from supplementary guides, to the actual characters in the series, say that Kaioshin is stronger. People complain that Kaioshin was shaking in his boots over guys like PuiPui and Yakon, but I chalk that up to Kaioshin being overly cautious with anything involving Babidi and Boo, and that fact that he seems to lack the ability to sense Ki.

[DBZAOTA482]

So is really Kaioshin more powerful than Piccolo or not? I always had this doubt

Literally everything that directly compares them says that he is.

People just don't like it because apparently he's not "badass" enough.

This. Everything from supplementary guides, to the actual characters in the series, say that Kaioshin is stronger. People complain that Kaioshin was shaking in his boots over guys like PuiPui and Yakon, but I chalk that up to Kaioshin being overly cautious with anything involving Babidi and Boo, and that fact that he seems to lack the ability to sense Ki.

Kaioshin sensed Gohan as SSJ2 just fine.

Him at the 25th Budokai and at Babidi's Spaceship are like two totally different characters.

[Blackstripe]

Literally everything that directly compares them says that he is.

People just don't like it because apparently he's not "badass" enough.
This. Everything from supplementary guides, to the actual characters in the series, say that Kaioshin is stronger. People complain that Kaioshin was shaking in his boots over guys like PuiPui and Yakon, but I chalk that up to Kaioshin being overly cautious with anything involving Babidi and Boo, and that fact that he seems to lack the ability to sense Ki.

DBZAOTA482 has many weird ideas, and I already made one post replying to him. I'm not going to get into a tiresome argument with him over things like King Chappa vs Chi-Chi or Piccolo vs Kaioshin.

[Khin]

So is really Kaioshin more powerful than Piccolo or not? I always had this doubt

Literally everything that directly compares them says that he is.

People just don't like it because apparently he's not "badass" enough.

Definitely agree with this,this is also the same reason why people cant accept Goten/Trunks as stronger than Piccolo and put hem lower than the likes of Final Form Freeza pre training.

[DBZAOTA482]

Literally everything that directly compares them says that he is.

People just don't like it because apparently he's not "badass" enough.
This. Everything from supplementary guides, to the actual characters in the series, say that Kaioshin is stronger. People complain that Kaioshin was shaking in his boots over guys like PuiPui and Yakon, but I chalk that up to Kaioshin being overly cautious with anything involving Babidi and Boo, and that fact that he seems to lack the ability to sense Ki.

DBZAOTA482 has many weird ideas, and I already made one post replying to him. I'm not going to get into a tiresome argument with him over things like King Chappa vs Chi-Chi or Piccolo vs Kaioshin.

It's wise not to... you'd have to be pretty tough to make a case for featless King Chappa and Kaioshin (and the likes) whom only merits are statements (of which aren't even as impressive when you look at them in context).

Also, Daizenshuu or whatever are the same material that gave Piccolo Daimao a BP of 260 while Tien at BoZ has 250 when the latter was repeatedly shown to be stronger than Daimao repeatedly.

I'm cool with Goten and Trunks being stronger than Piccolo... even before the RoSaT BTW.

[apex_pretador]

Dragon Ball Power Levels by Blackstripe

Multipliers:
SSJ = 40x base
ASSJ = 1.5x SSJ
USSJ = 2x SSJ
MSSJ = 80x base
SSJ2 = 2x MSSJ
SSJ3 = 4x SSJ2
SSJG = 375,000x SSJ3/240,000,000x base
SSJB = 20x Beyond God
Dance Fusion = A+B x30
Potara Fusion = A+B x5,000

Dragon Ball

Spoiler:

Pilaf Saga
Son Gokuu – 10 (the Daiz just happens to sync up with my revised power level for Gokuu here.)
(Hungry) – 8.5
(Oozaru) - 85
Bulma – 3.5
Pterodactyl – 6.5
Bear Bandit - 7
Oolong – 3
Kamesennin – 15
(Buff kamehameha) – 150
Yamucha – 9
Puar – 2.5
Chichi - 5
Gyumao – 12
Rabbit Boss - 6
Pilaf – 2
Shu – 4
Mai – 5.5
Kuririn – 8.5
Lunch (bad) – 6
(Good) - 3

21st Tenkaichi Budoukai
Preliminary contestants – between 6 and 10
Ranfan – 10
Giran – 12.5
Bacterian – 12
Yamucha – 14
Kuririn – 16
Nam – 17.5
Jackie Chun – 19.5
(FP Kamehameha) – 300 (absurdly powerful, but too slow to be useful in combat.)
Son Gokuu – 17
(with tail) – 20
(Oozaru) – 200

Red Ribbon Army Saga
Colonel Silver – 12
Full Metal Jacket – 18
Sergeant Purple – 9
Hachan – 40
Buyon – 15
General White – 7
Pirate Robot – 18
General Blue – 17
Arale – 280 (non-gag power. Strong enough to tail-slam 21st TB Oozaru Gokuu.)
Bora – 17
Upa – 4
Taopaipai – 28
Karin – 50
Son Gokuu – 20
(post-Karin training) – 32
Adjutant Black – 18 (remember, he was fighting post-Karin Gokuu at this point.)
Battle Jacket – 30

Uranai Baba Arc
Dracula Man – 15
Suke-san – 11
Mummy-kun – 22
Ackman – 25
Son Gohan – 30
Pilaf Mecha – 8
Shu Mecha – 10
Mai Mecha – 12
Combined Form – 18
Ostrich Mode – 9

22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai
Preliminary contestants – between 8 and 15, tougher this year.
Chappa-O – 26
Tsurusennin - 32
Manwolf – 16
Panput - 19
Chiaozu – 22
Yamucha – 25
Kuririn – 28
Jackie Chun – 38 (though he never went all out)
Tenshinhan – 40
Son Gokuu – 35 (tournament level)
(Real power) – 45

Piccolo Daimao Saga
Tambourine – 38
Piano – 30
Yajirobe – 42
Drum - 75
Old Piccolo Daimao (initial) – 40
(Powered up) – 60
(Unseen full power) – 125
(Young) – 160
(Full Power) – 180
Son Gokuu (Ultra Holy Mystic Water) – 186
Mr. Popo – 220
Kami – 300 (another coincidental overlap with the Daiz. I think it much better reflects his power relative to Gokuu here, though.)

23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai
Preliminary contestants – between 10 and 20, the cream of the crop.
Chappa-O – 58 (He probably watched Gokuu fight Ten in the 22nd, yet felt confident he could win, probably while assuming Gokuu would also improve.)
Chichi – 24
Shen – 120
Yamucha – 105
Kuririn – 165
Cyborg Taopaipai – 110
Tenshinhan – 225
Piccolo (suppressed) – 180
(True Power) – 325
Son Gokuu (weighted clothing) – 220
(w/o weights) – 340

Dragon Ball Z

Spoiler:

Raditz Saga
Farmer – 5
Raditz – 1282
(Post-Gohan) – 658 (it really did a number on him.)
Piccolo (weights) – 322
(w/o weights) – 408
Makankasappo – 1,330
Son Gokuu (weights) – 334
(w/o weights) – 416
(Kamehameha) – 924+
Son Gohan – 1
(Upset) – 710
(Enraged) – 1307

Saiyan Saga
Gohan – 981
(Enraged) – 2,800
Kuririn – 1,083
(True power) – 1,450
(Genki dama) – 10,000
Piccolo – 1,220
(True power) – 2,500 (Piccolo keeps saying how Gohan is stronger than him, so I’m putting him below the kid’s 2,800.)
Yamucha – 1,345
Tenshinhan – 1,650
Chiaozu – 820
Nappa – 4,200
(True power) – 8,000 (Vegeta thinks Gokuu is “not an unbeatable opponent” for him, and Gokuu thinks the fight will take a while. This does not suggest a 50% difference in power.)
Vegeta – 16,000
(True power) – 18,500
(Garlic Gun) – 24,600 (Exactly even with Gokuu’s initial Kamehameha, in his own words)
(Oozaru) – 95,000 (Vegeta’s weakened down to 9,500 by Gokuu’s Kamehameha and the moon ball)
(Post-genki dama) – 1,950
Son Gokuu – 5,200 (Stated to be over 5,000, not precisely so)
(True power) – 8,200
(Kaioken x2) – 16,400
(Kaioken x3) – 24,600
(Kaioken x4) – 32,800
(Original Genki Dama) – 200,000

Namek Saga
Freeza scouts - 500
Freeza soldiers – 1,000 (roughly)
Old Namekians – ~1,000
Young Namekians – 3,000
Dende – 8
(Potential unlocked) - 400
Dodoria – 21,500
Zarbon – 22,000
(Second form) – 29,500
Cui – 18,500
Vegeta – 24,000
(Zenkai) – 29,800
Kuririn – 1,500
Gohan – 1,500

Ginyu Saga
Freeza – 200,000
(Full power) – 530,000
Recoome – 40,000
Butta – 41,500
Jeice – 39,500
Guldo – 1,000 (He’s basically a regular soldier with weird abilities. Kuririn is like, “WTF is he even here for?” when sensing him. He alo couldn’t track their movements at all.)
Captain Ginyu – 102,000 (He’s 120,000 at his peak strength, yes...but who said he was at his peak on Namek? He struggled with a 90,000 Gokuu, after all.)
Kuririn – 1,500
(Potential unlocked) – 13,000
Gohan – 1,500
(Potential unlocked) – 14,000
Nail – 42,000
Vegeta – 29,800
(Zenkai; tired) – 125,000
Son Gokuu – 90,000
(Kaioken x2) – 180,000

Freeza Saga Part I
Kuririn – 22,000 (People want him at 75,000+, but I firmly believe Vegeta felt he could be useful because of his techniques, which he has seen and noted before. And what was his contribution to the fight? His Kienzan technique! Nothing suggests a massive increase in raw power for Kuririn.)
Gohan – 50,000
(Anger) – 850,000
(Zenkai) – 200,000
(Second anger surge) – 1,600,000
Piccolo – 75,000 (He’s only been training on Kaio’s planet for a few days, but remember: 158 days is like a thousand years of training on Earth, and we saw what he did in less than one year ON Earth. It makes more sense than you might think!)
(Fused with Nail) – 1,200,000
(w/o weights) – 1,350,000
Vegeta (Rested) – 450,000
Freeza – 530,000
(Second Form) – 1,060,000
(Full power) 1,250,000 (Roughly an 18% increase in power.)
(Third Form) – 1,750,000
(Unseen full power) - 2,065,000

Freeza Saga Part II
Vegeta (Zenkai) – 3,200,000 (See below)
Freeza (Expected Fourth Form) – 2,565,000 (This is what Vegeta expected based on his previous transformations.)
(Expected Full Power) – 3,025,000
(True Power/3%) – 4,860,000
(30%) – 48,600,000
(50%) – 81,000,000
(100%) – 162,000,000
(Exhausted) – 128,000,000
Son Gokuu (Zenkai) – 4,150,000
(Kaioken x10) – 41,500,000
(Kaioken x20) – 83,000,000
(Genki Dama) – 100,000,000 (It’s always one hundred million. There’s some traditions even I won’t break!)
(Super Saiyan) – 166,000,000 (40x multiplier, remember. People exaggerate how much more powerful Gokuu was over Freeza in the Manga. Freeza was never stronger than him, but he initially held his own pretty well.)

Trunks Arc
Trunks – 4,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 180,000,000
Cyborg Freeza (50%) – 87,500,000
(Unseen Full Power) – 175,000,000
King Cold (Full power) – 145,000,000 (In the form we saw him in, anyhow. Anything else is speculation.)
Gohan – 350,000
Vegeta – 3,800,000
Piccolo – 3,450,000
Kuririn – 24,000
Yamucha – 12,500
Tenshinhan – 88,000 (Don’t care what any outside statements ((even by Toriyama)) say, I’m going by my own observations. Ten consistently outshines Kuririn, even in the most recent movie. If they want Kuririn to be stronger, then show it.)
Son Gokuu – 5,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 216,000,000

Android Saga
Yamucha – 28,000
Kuririn – 46,000 (“But he survived a kick from Cell!” you might be thinking. Well, my friend, that’s because that scene was stupid. Cell explicitly says he was testing his strength, precluding the idea that he simply held back. Most people put Kuririn at 100,000 – 1,500,000…and it’s still just as stupid there. Unless you want to put him in the high double digit millions at a minimum ((and thus much stronger than the base Android Saga Saiyans)), it isn’t going to make a damn bit of sense.)
Tenshinhan – 1,560,000 (Shin Kikohoh might be way stronger than a normal one, but I can’t put him any lower than this after he holds Imperfect Cell back multiple times. He doesn’t even die after using it. It’s different from the above, because Cell wasn’t hurt, just shoved, and Ten didn’t tank any hits from him. Maybe it’s just me, but while it is still a stretch, I find it much more plausible than Kuririn not exploding from a “test kick” from Perfect Cell.)
Piccolo (weights) – 158,000,000
(w/o weights) – 182,000,000
Android #19 – 135,000,000
(Kamehameha absorbed) – 152,000,000
(Vegeta’s energy) – 202,000,000 (…and rapidly falling after he was “disarmed”.)
Dr. Gero – 155,000,000
(Blast absorbed) – 168,000,000
Vegeta – 6,800,000
(Super Saiyan) – 272,000,000
(Energy drained) – 222,000,000 (He doesn’t have to be initially weaker than Gero to not want to fight him like that. #19 took a huge chunk of power from him; Gero could likely take too much for him to duplicate his success.)
Son Gokuu - 7,200,000 (We never see him at his best, but I think he stayed a bit ahead of Vegeta, like always.)
(Initial signs of virus) – 6,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 248,000,000
(Crippling pain) – 114,000,000 (And rapidly dropping even before the absorption.)
Trunks – 5,800,000
(Super Saiyan) – 232,000,000
Cyborg #18 – 285,000,000 (She wasn’t absurdly stronger than Vegeta at the start, he just became fatigued.)

Cell Saga
Cyborg #17 – 325,000,000
Piccolo (Kami fusion) – 300,000,000
(w/o weights) – 335,000,000
(Tired) – 315,000,000
Android #16 – 450,000,000
Cell – 275,000,000
(Humans absorbed) – 455,000,000
(Semi-Perfect) – 780,000,000
(Full power) – 950,000,000
(Perfect; initial) – 1,300,000,000
(Warm up) – 1,650,000,000
(Buff) – 3,300,000,000
Shin Kikohoh – 156,000,000 (100x Ten’s power.)
Vegeta – 22,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 900,000,000
(Ascended Super Saiyan) – 1,350,000,000 (1.5x Super Saiyan)
Trunks – 21,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 860,000,000
(Ascended Super Saiyan) – 1,290,000,000
(Ultra Super Saiyan) – 1,720,000,000 (2x Super Saiyan)

Cell Games
Son Gokuu – 45,000,000
(Mastered Super Saiyan Half Power) – 1,800,000,000
(Full power) – 3,600,000,000 (80x multiplier, up from 40x.)
(Tired) – 2,000,000,000
Piccolo – 2,200,000,000
Vegeta – 35,000,000
(Semi-mastered Super Saiyan) - 2,450,000,000 (70x multiplier, partially mastered, but not fully.)
Trunks – 34,500,000
(Semi-Mastered Super Saiyan) - 2,415,000,000 (See above.)
Cell Jr. – 2,500,000,000
Cell (vs Gokuu) – 3,600,000,000 (Dead even.)
(vs Gohan) – 4,500,000,000 (It seemed more like a lack of fighting spirit on Gohan’s part than an overwhelming difference in power.)
(Full power) – 5,500,000,000
(Super Perfect) – 8,500,000,000
Son Gohan – 55,000,000
(Mastered Super Saiyan) – 4,400,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 8,800,000,000 (2x MSSJ, so 160x base.)
Mr. Satan – 7.5 (He’s strong for a normal human. He deserves better than 6.66 just for a pun.)

Babidi Saga
Mr. Satan 7.5 (Same as before.)
Videl – 8
(post-ki training) – 9.5
Spopovich – 18
Yamu – 19
Kuririn – 38,500
Yamucha – 8,800
Son Goten – 5,500,000
(MSSJ) – 440,000,000 (They show no strain, physical or emotional, in their Super Saiyan forms. I consider them natural masters.)
Trunks – 5,750,000
(MSSJ) – 460,000,000
Cyborg #18 – 285,000,000
Gohan – 38,500,000
(MSSJ) – 3,080,000,000
(post-tournament training) – 44,800,000/3,584,000,000
(SSJ2) – 7,168,000,000
Kibito – 44,000,000
Piccolo – 2,500,000,000
Kaioshin – 2,950,000,000
Pui-Pui – 10,500,000 (He didn’t expect the gravity to hurt Vegeta, just throw him off his game…which it would to anyone not used to it. He did survive several of Vegeta’s punches, too.)
Yakon – 500,000,000 (Give Yakon some credit. He and base Gokuu never fought seriously, and unlike Vegeta, Kaioshin knew Gokuu could become a Super Saiyan, so I doubt he’d be all “NO GOKUU! Don’t fight the creature far weaker than the opponent you already defeated years ago!”)
Dabura – 6,980,000,000 (A little weaker than SSJ2 Gohan.)
Vegeta – 60,000,000 (Surpassed Gohan’s old power level.)
(MSSJ) – 4,800,000,000
(SSJ2) – 9,600,000,000
(Majin) – 12,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 75,000,000
(MSSJ) – 6,000,000,000
(SSJ2) – 12,000,000,000
Babidi – 2.5

Majin Buu Saga
Majin Buu – 6,500,000,000 (Initial. Neither Dabura nor Gohan were particularly stunned by his starting power.)
(First power up) – 12,500,000,000
(Second power up) – 18,000,000,000
(Full power) – 25,000,000,000
(Splitting power) – 35,000,000,000
Good Buu – 15,000,000,000
Grey Buu – 20,000,000,000
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3; suppressed) – 32,500,000,000
Son Goten (Post-RoSaT) – 12,500,000 (Up from 5.5 million.)
Trunks (Post-RoSaT) – 12,500,000 (Up from 5.75 million.)
Gotenks – 330,000,000 (A+B x 30)
(MSSJ) – 26,400,000,000
(Post-RoSaT) – 750,000,000/60,000,000,000 (They ((and Piccolo)) both seemed really pleased with their increase in power, though it obviously wasn’t as absurd as Trunks made it out to be.)
(Super Saiyan 3) – 480,000,000,000
Son Gohan (Z-sword training) – 100,000,000
(Ultimate) – 600,000,000,000
Super Buu – 425,000,000,000
(Gotenks-Buu) – 907,500,000,000
(Piccolo-Buu) – 429,500,000,000
(Gohan-Buu) – 1,029,500,000,000
Tenshinhan – 1,650,000
Vegetto – 750,000,000,000 (A+B x 5,000. Yeah. Vegetto be crazy.)
(Super Vegetto) – 60,000,000,000,000
Buff Buu – 500,000,000,000
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3) – 48,000,000,000
(Hypothetical ki he could gather) – 80,000,000,000 (I feel he was more referring to being able to gathering his power into a big blast, like with his kamehameha against Raditz, than a level of power he could actively fight at. He even says he’s gathering up power for a big attack.)
Pure Buu – 52,000,000,000
Mr. Buu – 25,000,000,000 (Different from Good Buu, has both Kaioshin within him due to receiving “special treatment” from Super Buu. Lack of evil influence lets him tap into their power more properly.)

Dragon Ball Super

Spoiler:

Battle of Gods
Kuririn – 35,100
Yamucha – 5,100
Tenshinhan – 1,750,000
Piccolo – 2,800,000,000
Son Goten – 10,000,000
Trunks – 10,000,000
Pilaf – 2
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2
Mr. Satan – 7.5
Cyborg #18 – 285,000,000
Son Gohan – 400,000,000,000 (Still technically “Ultimate”, but decayed from his peak.)
Gotenks – 600,000,000
Vegeta – 80,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 6,400,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 12,800,000,000
(THAT’S MY BULMAAAA!!) – 1,000,000,000,000,000
(Enraged Garlic Gun) – 2,000,000,000,000,000
Beerus (0.1%) – 40,000,000,000,000
(10%) – 4,000,000,000,000,000
(70%) – 28,000,000,000,000,000
(100%) – 40,000,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 100,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 8,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 16,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 64,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan God; initial) – 8,000,000,000,000,000 (Took some time for him to rev up.)
(Full power) – 24,000,000,000,000,000
(Semi-Super Saiyan God) – 18,800,000,000,000,000
(Semi-God Super Saiyan) – 22,200,000,000,000,000
Whis – 60,000,000,000,000,000

Resurrection of F (incomplete)
Sorbet – 2,000
Shisami – 26,000
Tagoma – 25,000
(post-training) – 10,000,000,000
Soldiers/mercs – 500 – 2,000
Kuririn – 44,000 (back in shape, somewhat.)
Tenshinhan – 1,750,000 (pretty much hit his limit.)
Muten Roshi – 2,500
(buff) – 8,000
Piccolo – 2,850,000,000
Gohan – 5,000,000,000
(MSSJ) – 400,000,000,000 (Same as his ultimate power in BoG, but he requires Super Saiyan to draw it out.)
(desperate signal) – 600,000,000,000 (Brings out his full Ultimate power for a brief moment to call for Gokuu.)
Freeza – 5,000,000,000,000
(True Form) – 1,530,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 400,000,000,000,000 (Lost Super Saiyan God-level power at some point in his months of farming, if not immediately after his fight with Beerus. He’s still much stronger than before.)
(post-training) – 1,550,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan Blue) – 31,000,000,000,000,000 (x20 base Beyond God.)
Vegeta – 80,000,000
(mid-training) – 500,000,000,000,000 (Surpassed Gokuu for a brief time.)
(post-training) – 1,550,000,000,000,000

Bonus: GT Comparisons
Son Gokuu – 55,000,000,000
(MSSJ) – 4,400,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 8,800,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 35,200,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4) – 352,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4 far past his limits) – 720,000,000,000,000
(Hypothetical SSJ4 with Dragon Balls) – 7,200,000,000,000,000
Revived Perfect Cell – 32,500,000,000
Revived Freeza – 24,000,000,000
Super 17 – 600,000,000,000,000
Syn Shenron – 500,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron – 5,000,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 Gogeta – 43,200,000,000,000,000 (Assuming SSJ4 Vegeta = past limits Gokuu, this is 1.44 quadrillion x30.)

Phew, what a workout. There you go. I'll update as more Super comes out.

The list seems fine. Just a few issues:
1. You are taking "I didn't even use my half power" statement too literally. The jumps from 22 to 23 WMAT are ridiculous for humans at least. Also, king piccolo is not a guy whose statements can be trusted.
2. The gains from roshi training are nearly nonexistent?
3. Roshi is too weak. He didn't train & was 139 in Z. He can't be magically become many times stronger in 8 years if wasn't even 40 before death. Also, 22 WMAT roshi must be MUCH stronger than gohan.

4. The DBZ list is excellent,atleast till cell games. But Yamcha should be much higher than 28 k in androids arc.

5. Piccolo must be LOT stronger in 7 year training. He trains everyday according to toriyama. The only indication on his power is that he was fodder to SS2. Also, he was confident in the tournament, even though he didn't know about "NO SS" idea. He also destroyed every camera so that no one except spectators can know about SS & remember cell games fighters.

6. Super saiyan 3 can't be 8x MSSJ, atleast not for gotenks. No way is SS gotenks 7x weaker than super buu. He was outclassed, yes, but not in a way that krillin was against raditz.

7. GT doesn't seem to follow the same power multipliers as DBZ.

[apex_pretador]

Where do y'all have the following?:

• (Buu Arc) Goku (SSJ3)
  (BoG) Goku (SSJ3)
  
  (Buu Arc) Evil Buu
  (Buu Arc) Gotenks (SSJ3)
  (Buu Arc) Gohan (Ultimate)
  
  (Buu Arc) Vegetto (Base)
  (Buu Arc) Vegetto (SSJ)
  (BoG) Vegetto (Base)
  (BoG) Vegetto (SSJ)

Buu arc SS3 goku - 2 billion, between fat buu & kid buu. Slightly above SS gotenks (post)
BoG SS3 goku - around twice his buu arc self, equal to SS3 gotenks, slightly below U gohan

Evil buu (I assume you mean super buu) = good buu + bad buu = 1.6x SS3 goku
Buu arc SS3 gotenks - 1.8x SS3 goku
U gohan - 2x SS3 goku.

Base vegetto = SS2 vegeta in both arcs
Super vegetto = less than 1% beerus in both arcs. About 8-10x buuhan in buu arc.

So is really Kaioshin more powerful than Piccolo or not? I always had this doubt

He is, most likely according to what piccolo thinks. He also contained SS2 gohan, & performed better than him vs fat buu.
He also never thought that mortals can surpass him, even though he's sensed SS2 gohan & SS goku before.


In other words, no matter how strong is he, he is an idiot.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Here are my numbers for the manga & Toriyama's new stories. Some notes first:

• I don't know if I'll make numbers for the arcs before Saiyan arc.
• I may use numbers/statements/feats from the anime & guidebooks, but only when I personally feel like they fit with the manga/scripts.
• The Son Goku and Friends Return!! numbers are based on the manga adaptation, since Toriyama was more involved with it than the anime special.
• The Battle of Gods & Resurrection "F" numbers are based on Toriyama's original scripts, not the movies or Super. So Shisami was never on par with Zarbon & Dodoria. We may not have the script for BoG, but based on the original promotional material, Toriyama's character designs, and how FnF turned out, my guess is that Gohan was originaly supposed to be a Super Saiyan against Beerus, so I'll go by that.
• For the 28th TB arc, I won't make guesses for Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Boo, and Kuririn, since they are gonna train & get stronger in Super. I will make guesses for Gohan, Goten, and Trunks however, because the guidebooks state that they haven't changed much in power since Boo arc, so I'll go by that until Super retcons this. Also, Gohan is Ultimate again, based on his appearance.

Spoiler:

Bardock - 5.000

• Oozaru - 50.000

Gine - 300

• Oozaru - 3.000

Raditz - 100

• Oozaru - 1.000

Kakarotto - 7

• Oozaru - 70

Vegeta - 4.000

• Oozaru - 40.000

Freeza - 530.000
Jaco - 250

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 416
Piccolo - 408
Son Gohan - 1

• Enraged - up to 1.307
  Oozaru - 13.070

Kuririn - 206
Yamcha - 177
Tenshinhan - 250
Chaozu - 155
Kame-sennin - 139

• Max Power - 250

Raditz - 1.250

• Oozaru - 12.500

Enma Daio - 2.000
Kaio of the North - 3.500

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 8.052

• Kaio-ken - 16.104
  Kaio-ken x3 - 24.156
  Kaio-ken x4 - 32.208

Son Gohan - 981

• Enraged - 1.150
  Oozaru - 11.500

Piccolo - 3.500
Kuririn - 1.770
Tenshinhan - 1.830
Yamcha - 1.480
Chaozu - 610
Yajirobe - 970
Kami of Earth - 220
Mr. Popo - 1.030
Vegeta - 18.000

• Oozaru - 180.000

Nappa - 7.900

• Oozaru - 79.000

Saibaimen - 1.200

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 9.000

• Post-training - 90.000
  • Kaio-ken - 180.000
    Kaio-ken x10 - 900.000
  Post-recovery - 3.000.000
  • Kaio-ken x10 - 30.000.000
    Kaio-ken x20 - 60.000.000
    Super Saiyan - 150.000.000

Son Gohan - 1.900

• Post-power-up - 14.000
  Post-recovery 1 - 30.000
  Against Freeza - 200.000
  • Enraged - 1.000.000
  Post-recovery 2 - 700.000
  • Enraged - 1.950.000

Vegeta - 24.000

• Post-recovery 1 - 29.900
  Post-recovery 2 - 250.000
  Post-recovery 3 - 2.300.000

Piccolo - 300.000

• Merged with Nail - 1.200.000

Kuririn - 1.800

• Post-power-up - 13.000
  Against Ginyu - 25.000
  Against Freeza- 75.000

Tenshinhan - 100.000
Yamcha - 80.000
Chaozu - 20.000
Nail - 42.000
Namekian Warriors - 3.000-10.000
Freeza

• First Form - 530.000
  Second Form - 1.100.000
  Third Form - 2.000.000
  True Form
  • Initially - 3.000.000
    50% Power - 60.000.000
    70% Power - 84.000.000
    Full Power - 120.000.000

Freeza Soldiers - 500-1.000
Appule - 3.000
Kewi - 18.000
Dodoria - 22.000
Zarbon - 23.000

• Transformed - 29.000

Gurd - 10.000
Reacoom - 42.000
Jheese - 42.000
Butta - 42.000
Captain Ginyu - 120.000

• In Goku's body - 23.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 3.500.000

• Super Saiyan - 175.000.000

Trunks - 3.400.000

• Super Saiyan - 170.500.000

Vegeta - 3.100.000
Piccolo - 2.000.000
Kuririn - 200.000
Tenshinhan - 130.000
Yamcha - 100.000
Chaozu - 25.000
Cold - 100.000.000
Mecha Freeza - 150.000.000

Spoiler:

• Son Gohan - 3.300.000
  • Super Saiyan - 165.000.000
  Trunks - 40.000
  • Super Saiyan - 2.000.000
  Artificial Human #17 - 300.000.000
  Artificial Human #18 - 290.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 4.500.000

• Super Saiyan - 225.000.000

Vegeta - 4.600.000

• • Super Saiyan - 230.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 19.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 950.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 1.330.000.000

Trunks - 4.000.000

• • Super Saiyan - 200.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 18.500.000
  • Super Saiyan - 925.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 1.295.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 1.665.000.000

Son Gohan - 2.800.000
Piccolo - 10.000.000

• Super Namekian - 400.000.000

Kuririn - 2.000.000
Yamcha - 1.100.000
Tenshinhan - 1.300.000
Chaozu - 100.000
Artificial Human #16 - 600.000.000
Artificial Human #17 - 400.000.000
Artificial Human #18 - 390.000.000
Artificial Human #19 - 4.000.000

• Post-absorption - 100.000.000

Artificial Human #20/Dr. Gero - 5.000.000

• Post-absorption - 7.000.000

Cell
First Form - 200.000.000

• Vs Piccolo - 300.000.000
  Vs #17 - 600.000.000

Second Form - 1.000.000.000
Perfect Form

• Suppressed - 1.400.000.000
  "Super Saiyan Grade 3" - 2.520.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 70.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 3.500.000.000

Son Gohan - 90.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 4.500.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 9.000.000.000
  • Enraged - 10.000.000.000

Vegeta - 40.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 2.000.000.000

Trunks - 39.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 1.950.000.000

Piccolo - 1.500.000.000
Mr. Satan - 7
Cell Juniors - 2.200.000.000
Cell

• Perfect Form - 4.400.000.000
  Power-Weighted - 8.000.000.000
  Super Perfect Form - 9.000.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 105.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 5.250.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 10.500.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 42.000.000.000

Son Gohan - 90.000.000

• • Super Saiyan - 4.500.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 9.000.000.000

• Post-Z-Sword training - 91.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 4.550.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 9.100.000.000

• Ultimate - 400.000.000.000

Son Goten - 65.000.000

• • Super Saiyan Full Power - 3.250.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 70.000.000
  • • Super Saiyan - 3.500.000.000

Vegeta - 92.000.000

• • Super Saiyan - 4.600.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 9.200.000.000

• After Babidi's power-up - 105.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 5.250.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 10.500.000.000

Trunks - 66.000.000

• • Super Saiyan Full Power - 3.300.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 70.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 3.500.000.000

Vegetto - 730.000.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 36.500.000.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 73.000.000.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 292.000.000.000.000

Gotenks - 768.000.000

• • Super Saiyan Full Power - 38.400.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 840.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 42.000.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 84.000.000.000
    Super Saiyan 3 - 336.000.000.000

Piccolo - 2.000.000.000
Kuririn - 2.100.000
Tenshinhan - 1.400.000
Kaioshin of the East - 6.000.000.000
Kibito - 80.000.000
Rou Kaioshin - 1.000
Kibito-Kaioshin - 9.000.000.000
Videl - 8
Babidi - 3
Yamu - 9
Spopovitch - 10
Babidi's Unnamed Henchman - 100.000
Puipui - 180.000
Yakon - 120.000.000
Dabra - 9.000.000.000
Majin Boo

• Innocent - 30.000.000.000
  Good - 10.000.000.000
  Pure Evil - 20.000.000
  Evil - 325.000.000.000
  Gotenks & Piccolo absorbed - 663.000.000.000
  Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed - 327.140.000.000
  Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed - 727.140.000.000
  Piccolo absorbed - 327.000.000.000
  Kaioshin of the South absorbed - 350.000.000.000
  Pure - 40.000.000.000
  Mr. Boo - 30.000.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 106.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 5.300.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 10.600.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 42.400.000.000

Vegeta - 106.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 5.300.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 10.600.000.000

Son Goten - 70.700.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.535.000.000

Trunks - 70.700.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.535.000.000

Gotenks - 848.400.000

• Super Saiyan - 42.420.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 339.360.000.000

Tarble - 3.000

• Oozaru - 30.000

Abo - 65.000.000
Kado - 65.000.000
Aka - 130.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 108.000.000

• • Super Saiyan - 5.400.000.000
    • With everyone's power - 217.900.000.000
    Super Saiyan 2 - 10.800.000.000
    Super Saiyan 3 - 43.200.000.000
    Super Saiyan God - 600.000.000.000.000

• Saiyan beyond God - 585.000.000.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 587.500.000.000.000
    Super Saiyan God - 600.000.000.000.000

Vegeta - 108.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 5.400.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 10.800.000.000
  • Enraged - 65.000.000.000.000

Son Gohan - 40.000.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 200.000.000.000

Son Goten - 71.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.550.000.000

Trunks - 71.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.550.000.000

Gotenks - 852.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 42.600.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 340.800.000.000

Piccolo - 2.200.000.000
Tenshinhan - 1.500.000
Beerus - 1.000.000.000.000.000
Whis - 1.500.000.000.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 610.000.000.000.000

• Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Blue - 762.500.000.000.000

Vegeta - 600.000.000.000.000

• Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Blue - 610.000.000.000.000

Son Gohan - 2.500.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 125.000.000.000

Piccolo - 2.250.000.000
Kuririn - 2.200.000
Tenshinhan - 1.550.000
Kame-sennin - 139

• Max Power - 250

Jaco - 200
Freeza's Soldiers - 50-1.000
Mercenaries - 70.000-150.000
Tagoma - 22.500
Shisami - 2.300.000.000
Sorbet - 5
Freeza

• • Fist Form - 500.000

• Post-training
  • First Form - 2.800.000.000.000
    Final Form - 450.000.000.000.000
    Golden Form - 850.000.000.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - ???
Son Gohan - 400.000.000.000
Son Goten - 73.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.650.000.000

Pan - 10.000
Vegeta - ???
Trunks - 73.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 3.650.000.000

Gotenks - 876.000.000

• Super Saiyan - 43.800.000.000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 350.400.000.000

Mr. Boo - ???
Piccolo - ???
Kuririn - ???
Oob - 10

• Enraged - 40.000.000.000

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 4.500.000

• Super Saiyan - 225.000.000

Son Gohan - 2.800.000
Piccolo - 10.000.000

• Super Namekian - 400.000.000

A few (two) nitpicks.

1. Why is Gohan so low? Goku said that he would make a good sparring partner once he turned into a Super Saiyan.
2. If Piccolo is at 10,000,000, you must have sick SS Goku at like 8,000,000?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

1. Why is Gohan so low? Goku said that he would make a good sparring partner once he turned into a Super Saiyan.

Gohan would have been a good sparring partner after doing training. He doesn't have any feats or statements about his power though, so his power could be anywhere.

2. If Piccolo is at 10,000,000, you must have sick SS Goku at like 8,000,000?

Why should Goku be weaker than Piccolo?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan would have been a good sparring partner after doing training. He doesn't have any feats or statements about his power though, so his power could be anywhere.

After becoming a Super Saiyan, Goku makes no mention of training to increase battle power.

Why should Goku be weaker than Piccolo?

Compare sick Goku's beatdown on Android #19 pre to Piccolo's beatdown on a considerably stronger Android #20 post.

[apex_pretador]

list

I disagree with most your numbers. Anyways, it is okay as everyone has different opinions, so me & you can have different opinions.

[ZombieVito]

DBZGTKOSDH, don't you think you have Kaioshin way to close to Super Saiyan Goku?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

After becoming a Super Saiyan, Goku makes no mention of training to increase battle power.

If base Gohan was close to base Goku, he wouldn't hold back Goku, since they would be able to spar in base. So, he should first become strong enough to become a Super Saiyan, and then become a Super Saiyan. If he was already strong enough, he wouldn't need any training in the first place to become a Super Saiyan, he would just have to get angry enough.

Compare sick Goku's beatdown on Android #19 pre to Piccolo's beatdown on a considerably stronger Android #20 post.

I never gave sick Goku a number because I never believed that a number would reflect the way he fought. Goku didn't have a sickness that lowered his BP, he had a sickness that turned him into shit in general. So, the way he fights doesn't reflect to his battle power, like Butta's speed doesn't reflect to his battle power.

DBZGTKOSDH, don't you think you have Kaioshin way to close to Super Saiyan Goku?

My bad, I actually have him above Super Saiyan Goku. Kaioshin realized that he was surpassed by mortals after he got a glimpse of SS2 Goku's power against Yakon.

[ZombieVito]

But Goku was going to kill Kaioshin with just regular Super Saiyan.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

After becoming a Super Saiyan, Goku makes no mention of training to increase battle power.

If base Gohan was close to base Goku, he wouldn't hold back Goku, since they would be able to spar in base. So, he should first become strong enough to become a Super Saiyan, and then become a Super Saiyan. If he was already strong enough, he wouldn't need any training in the first place to become a Super Saiyan, he would just have to get angry enough.

Compare sick Goku's beatdown on Android #19 pre to Piccolo's beatdown on a considerably stronger Android #20 post.

I never gave sick Goku a number because I never believed that a number would reflect the way he fought. Goku didn't have a sickness that lowered his BP, he had a sickness that turned him into shit in general. So, the way he fights doesn't reflect to his battle power, like Butta's speed doesn't reflect to his battle power.

DBZGTKOSDH, don't you think you have Kaioshin way to close to Super Saiyan Goku?

My bad, I actually have him above Super Saiyan Goku. Kaioshin realized that he was surpassed by mortals after he got a glimpse of SS2 Goku's power against Yakon.

I'm on my iPad, so excuse the lazy response.

1. Fine, I concede as I don't feel like debating it as the moment and your point is valid.
2. Piccolo flat-out says that Goku is fighting at full power, and just that his Chi is lower than it should be. No one ever comments that Goku is fighting off balanced either, only that he's being sloppy and rushing the match.

[supercat]

Off topic but I thought I'd put in my two cents regarding the whole Tagoma / Gohan debate.

Due to an absence of training, Base Gohan (formerly Ultimate Gohan) likely plummeted back down to where he was at during his Super Perfect Cell-busting days (SSJ2-tier). The fact that Tagoma sought out Gohan is enough of an indicator that the latter in his base form was noticably stronger than Piccolo, who by this point should at least be a notch or two below MSSJ Goku (against Super Perfect Cell). This in turn likely means that Tagoma now possesses a power at least a few tiers above the once awe-inspiring strength wielded by enraged SSJ2 Gohan. Now, seeing as how Ginyu was able to tap into an even greater source of power, I'm inclined to believe that the body swapping mutant could be anywhere between SSJ2 Gohan (against Super Perfect Cell) and any of the Buus; excluding Buutenks and Buuhan of course.

Despite the major decline in power, Gohan still had access to a rustier version of his former Ultimate incarnation, by simply going SSJ. It seems very plausible that this innate accessiblity was what granted our out of shape hero the power to beat down Ginyu.

Honestly, I'm baffled by fans who actually think SSJ Gohan is barely on par with his MSSJ self during the Cell Games. Really? Is that why Tagoma chose to take Base Gohan out over Piccolo...?

[DanielSSJ]

Off topic but I thought I'd put in my two cents regarding the whole Tagoma / Gohan debate.

Due to an absence of training, Base Gohan (formerly Ultimate Gohan) likely plummeted back down to where he was at during his Super Perfect Cell-busting days (SSJ2-tier). The fact that Tagoma sought out Gohan is enough of an indicator that the latter in his base form was noticably stronger than Piccolo, who by this point should at least be a notch or two below MSSJ Goku (against Super Perfect Cell). This in turn likely means that Tagoma now possesses a power at least a few tiers above the once awe-inspiring strength wielded by enraged SSJ2 Gohan. Now, seeing as how Ginyu was able to tap into an even greater source of power, I'm inclined to believe that the body swapping mutant could be anywhere between SSJ2 Gohan (against Super Perfect Cell) and any of the Buus; excluding Buutenks and Buuhan of course.

Despite the major decline in power, Gohan still had access to a rustier version of his former Ultimate incarnation, by simply going SSJ. It seems very plausible that this innate accessiblity was what granted our out of shape hero the power to beat down Ginyu.

Honestly, I'm baffled by fans who actually think SSJ Gohan is barely on par with his MSSJ self during the Cell Games. Really? Is that why Tagoma chose to take Base Gohan out over Piccolo...?

I'd probably put them a bit lower. Base Gohan would probably be about equal to his old Super Saiyan power rather than Super Saiyan 2, and Ginyu/Tagoma is about on par with Super Perfect Cell. Other than that, I agree totally.