Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Herms]

I'm curious, because I've never really understood where all the fuss over the title originated. I don't know any Japanese, yet I've been told that the "no" particle is more or less similar to the English possesive " 's", in terms of word structure.
So wouldn't it be something similar to "Fukkatsu's F", as in "Resurrection's F" or "Revival's F"? To be honest, when I first read the title, I thought it was "The F in Fukkatsu", as if we were to say "the word Fukkatsu starts with F", something which isn't so obvious in Japanese and also serves to mention Freeza. If it was "Revival of F", wouldn't it be "F no Fukkatsu"?

の/no has several different uses in Japanese. For instance, watashi no hon means "my book", but midori no hon means "green book". You could also translate the latter as "book of green" and it still works fine, but translating it as "green's book" doesn't, since it's being used to indicate a trait rather than possession (the book is green; green doesn't own the book). In DB we've got Nishi no Miyako, which you could translate as "Capital of the West", or simply "Western Capital"...or cut it down even more and just go with "West City". In a figurative sense, the west "owns" the capitol, but what's really meant is that the capitol is western. Likewise, Hebi ni Michi can be "Road of the Serpent" or "Serpentine Road" (a serpent-like road...it looks like a snake, in other words). Either way, there's no actual snake that owns the road; it's just a road with snake-like traits.

DBZ episode 42 is when Vegeta gets healed on Planet Freeza No.79, and the second half of the episode title reads 復活のベジータ/fukkatsu no Bejiita. You could translate that literally as "Vegeta of the revival" or "revival's Vegeta", but obviously that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Here の/no once again indicates a trait, rather than possession. Vegeta doesn't belong to the revival; he has been revived. So you can translate it as "revived Vegeta", or less literally "the revival of Vegeta", or simply "Vegeta revives".

It's pretty much the same thing with 復活の「Ｆ」/"Revival of F", but admittedly it's very context dependent. We know from the news about the movie so far that the F stands for "Freeza" and that the plot of the movie centers around Freeza being brought back to life, so that's how we know to translate 復活の「Ｆ」 as "Revival of F". But if you just handed someone a piece of paper with 復活の「Ｆ」 written on it and asked them to translate it, there's a good chance they'd assume the の/no is simply indicating possession and translate it as "Fukkatsu's F" or "The F in Fukkatsu". After all, if you've got nothing else to go on, then it's natural to assume that the F mentioned must be the F in fukkatsu. That's the problem with ANN's translation; they're not taking into account what we know of the movie when translating the movie's title, so hilarity ensues.

[Chuquita]

Some googling suggests Cinecom Walker does not have a website. Anyone know what issue the one linked a few pages back world be?

The page is too blurry to tell if it's just copy pasted text that's been on the db15 site, or if it's new info.

Edit 2:
Text is too long and missing the 1000 to be a copy paste from the site alone.
(ﾟロﾟ) !

[Lord Beerus]

I agree with you in the sense that he shouldn't survive the film, but "Goku knows better than to let a character like that go alive"?

He DID try to let him go alive

And he learned his mistake. He killed Freeza & Cold (or would have, if Trunks hadn't interfered), had no problem with Gohan killing the Cell Jrs, even yelled at Gohan for not killing Cell, didn't have a problem with Vegeta killing Pui Pui, killed Yakon with a smile, and trained Goten & Trunks to kill Boo, and eventually killed Boo by himself. Goku has went past the "No, you don't have to kill him!" phase, he is fine now with killing bad guys.

But if Freeza offers Goku a Pizza, and he may just look the other way, you never know. And if the Pizza has stuffed crust then all bets are off.

[UltimateHammerBro]

Thank you very much VegettoEX and Herms. It's all crystal clear now
It has also multiplied my respect for the people who know Japanese by tenfold.

[Chuquita]

Any word on when (if?) Julian could get a copy of this Cinecom Walker?

[SaiyaJedi]

Any word on when (if?) Julian could get a copy of this Cinecom Walker?

Working on it. It's a pain to get to the nearest cinema complex that offers it, but there's always the option of ordering online....

[Chuquita]

Any word on when (if?) Julian could get a copy of this Cinecom Walker?

Working on it. It's a pain to get to the nearest cinema complex that offers it, but there's always the option of ordering online....

I didn't know it was a theater only magazine. O_O Was under the impression it was offered at conveniences stores. Though I guess if it had been convenience store available, a full scan would have leaked at full size already, since eight days have passed.

Lots of appreciation!!

It may work out if the plot info is there instead. It means Kanzenshuu can break the news, so no 'Bills' or 'Revival's F'.
There'll be accuracy.

[dbzfan7]

I can certainly see justification in his death if it were, say... at the hands of Vegeta, a character that sorely deserves it after suffering endless humiliation at Freeza's hands.

Vegeta doesn't deserve shit. He was a horrible person back then and deserved everything Freeza did to him. Vegeta was no different than Freeza back then. He was cold and brutal by Saiyan standards. Vegeta got his karma back then by having Freeza make his life miserable like Vegeta did to everyone else he slaughtered or killed. Vegeta gleefully slaughtered entire worlds and ate up their remains. He was never remorseful in the least. The only way Vegeta deserves shit is if he was being tortured for the past he may be trying to make up for. If it weren't for Freeza and his men, then Vegeta would probably be the evil monarch without question and have been just as horrible as Freeza. Vegeta was a bastard, so another bastard made his life miserable. Freeza got what's coming to him years later. Vegeta killing Freeza out of revenge for his past is ludicrous. If anything he should realize he deserved all of that misery as that's exactly what he wrought on other worlds. From this realization he shouldn't kill Freeza and realize just how things would be if Freeza never were around. If Freeza weren't around, perhaps his path would have been different entirely. He may never have settled on earth, met Bulma, had kids. His life may have been extremely different. He had a humiliating past, but he sure as hell deserved it.

[Herms]

Thinking about it more, I guess I halfway understand where ANN is coming from. Sort of. Like I explained above, "The F in Fukkatsu" may be a total mistranslation when you look at the context of what we know about the movie's plot and Toriyama's explanation about the title, but looking just at the title 復活の「Ｆ」, it's not a bad first guess. And ANN covers tons and tons of different anime, meaning they have to translate tons and tons of different titles. When you have to deal with that many titles, it probably makes sense to just use quick, first guess translations and then switch to whatever title is used if/when it gets licensed for an English release. They probably don't have time to put a great deal of thought and research into every single translation. They may seem stubborn sticking to their guns even after it's been pointed out why their translation is mistaken, but from their perspective it's probably just easier to wait for some official translation. After all, if they stopped and changed their translation every time some fan complained, it might never end, and the fans would probably be wrong half the time anyway. Verifying that the complaint is valid and that there's something objectively wrong with their translation would take at least a little while, too long for them to bother with each and every title. So from where we're sitting it looks ridiculous because they're totally wrong about the title of the latest DBZ movie, but for them being wrong about one or two titles is just the price they have to pay in order to be able to cover hundreds of titles and be right most of the time. I suppose.

[RandomGuy96]

Freeza on the other hand is unarguably evil and destructive toward the whole of creation, and any manner of redemption on his part would never come off as entirely sincere, either on his behalf or on the behalf of the writer, I believe.

His clone was able to become a "good guy", so I don't see what's so unbelievable about it. Not that I would like if he got to continue living past this movie, but I'm just pointing out that it's been done before.

would agree that his resurrection comes off as unnecessary and almost pointless at face value, to a certain extent, especially if they just were to kill him off again. However, I do believe that something legitimately interesting could be told here if we give it a chance. I can certainly see justification in his death if it were, say... at the hands of Vegeta, a character that sorely deserves it after suffering endless humiliation at Freeza's hands.

As dbzfan7 said, Vegeta doesn't deserve anything. Well, he does, but it's not revenge.

So, here's hoping the writers have the balls to take the win from Goku and give it to Vegeta. God knows he deserves a win at this point.

He defeated Saibaman, Goku, Gohan, Yajirobe, Cui, Appule, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Jeice, Goku again, Android 19, Semi-Cell, Goku again, Goten, Trunks, and Pui Pui. He also fought to a drawn with 1st form Freeza and a Cell Jr, and got to yank Mr. Buu's pod out of Super Buu. Where are you getting the idea that he "deserves" more wins?

[KaiserNeko]

Freeza on the other hand is unarguably evil and destructive toward the whole of creation, and any manner of redemption on his part would never come off as entirely sincere, either on his behalf or on the behalf of the writer, I believe.

His clone was able to become a "good guy", so I don't see what's so unbelievable about it. Not that I would like if he got to continue living past this movie, but I'm just pointing out that it's been done before.

would agree that his resurrection comes off as unnecessary and almost pointless at face value, to a certain extent, especially if they just were to kill him off again. However, I do believe that something legitimately interesting could be told here if we give it a chance. I can certainly see justification in his death if it were, say... at the hands of Vegeta, a character that sorely deserves it after suffering endless humiliation at Freeza's hands.

As dbzfan7 said, Vegeta doesn't deserve anything. Well, he does, but it's not revenge.

So, here's hoping the writers have the balls to take the win from Goku and give it to Vegeta. God knows he deserves a win at this point.

He defeated Goku, Gohan, Yajirobe, Cui, Appule, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Jeice, Goku again, Android 19, Semi-Cell, Goku again, and Pui Pui. He also fought to a drawn with 1st form Freeza and a Cell Jr, and got to yank Mr. Buu's pod out of Super Buu. Where are you getting the idea that he "deserves" more wins?

Yes, he's gotten plenty of victories... back when he was evil, murderous Vegeta. As of now, he's not the person he was before Cell, or even before Buu, and he's trying to do the right thing. Every attempt he's ever made at being a hero has ended with him losing; he was stomped by Perfect Cell in his fit of rage over Trunks, every form of Buu he fought, and Beerus knocked him out the moment he got serious. Of course, in that respect, I'd say Piccolo deserves a win more than Vegeta... but it's more appropriate that Vegeta should beat Freeza. He deserves to be rewarded for coming as far as he has, and I can see no better reward than being able to put down Freeza himself.

I don't care about Vegeta's past, because neither does anyone else. That was a essentially a lifetime ago for him. Vegeta has shown that he's a good person, who would humiliate himself and put his own life at risk for the people around him. I think he deserves to defeat Freeza, the man who made his life a living hell, then proceeded to torture and murder him, regardless of what anyone says.

Also: Freeza's "clone"? Are you talking about Vegeta?

[RandomGuy96]

Yes, he's gotten plenty of victories... back when he was evil, murderous Vegeta. As of now, he's not the person he was before Cell, or even before Buu, and he's trying to do the right thing. Every attempt he's ever made at being a hero has ended with him losing; he was stomped by Perfect Cell in his fit of rage over Trunks, every form of Buu he fought, and Beerus knocked him out the moment he got serious. Of course, in that respect, I'd say Piccolo deserves a win more than Vegeta... but it's more appropriate that Vegeta should beat Freeza. He deserves to be rewarded for coming as far as he has, and I can see no better reward than being able to put down Freeza himself.

The fact that he was brought back at all rather than staying in Hell is too much of a reward as-is.

Cell wasn't an attempt by him to be a hero, he was just pissed that Cell would dare attack his son out of a sense of pride (the son he was plenty willing to emotionally and physically abuse himself). Not to mention that he DID get to distract Cell for the final blow, so he was hardly a failure there. Even though that sequence was completely illogical, since Piccolo should have done the same thing earlier. He also got to smack around Beerus, even though that sequence was completely illogical, and got to create the plan that destroyed Buu, even though that sequence was completely illogical, and was the one to rip out Mr. Buu's pod, even though that sequence was completely illogical.

He's the opposite of someone who deserves more opportunities to shine. The series, both the movies and the manga, have both trampled on their own internal logic countless times to make him look better. Both before and after he "stopped" being evil.

Also: Freeza's "clone"? Are you talking about Vegeta?

Yep.

I don't care about Vegeta's past, because neither does anyone else. That was a essentially a lifetime ago for him. Vegeta has shown that he's a good person, who would humiliate himself and put his own life at risk to save his own life from the indestructible god. I think he deserves to defeat Freeza, the man who made his life a living hell, then proceeded to torture and murder him, regardless of what anyone says.

If it was supposedly a different lifetime, then why do you want Vegeta to beat Freeza? He tortured Evil!Vegeta. It's hardly a lifetime ago, though. The last time he murdered tons of people was just four years ago in-universe by the time of BOG. He has consistently been a horrible person for his entire life, and I'd argue that still is the case by BOG. Freeza's "torture" of Vegeta was just an asshole being a dick to another asshole. If Vegeta was in Freeza's position, he would have done the exact same things at every turn. So why does Vegeta "deserve" anything?

[EmmaWinters]

After all, if they stopped and changed their translation every time some fan complained, it might never end, and the fans would probably be wrong half the time anyway. ... for them being wrong about one or two titles is just the price they have to pay in order to be able to cover hundreds of titles and be right most of the time

While you make a good point, this is Dragon Ball, not some flash in the pan new series.
It's important that they get it right, or at the very least make note of the "two" meanings.

It's one thing if a fan nitpicks or complains for the sake of complaining.
It's another thing altogether when a fan explains why you're wrong, and provides
links to interviews & comments by the author himself that contradicts what you use.

[sailorspazz]

I'm not one who normally cares to speculate about how the fights will go, but how about THIS for an ending: Gokuu, Vegeta, and maybe Beerus (if he feels like it) work together and give Freeza a good beat down (after whatever number of power ups are necessary occur on both sides). As Freeza curses to himself and wonders how to overcome his opponents, a voice calls out "Hey Freeza!" from behind him. Feeling a nagging sense of deja vu, he turns around to discover Trunks coming down from above him, sword in hand. "Oh, not this again..." are the final words he ever mutters as he's--once again--hacked to pieces by the half-Saiyan boy.

It may be incredibly dumb/a cop-out/whatever, but the mental image made me laugh It would be nice if the reason we haven't heard anything about Trunks & Goten yet is because their role will be to show up only briefly but do something incredibly badass in that short appearance.

[KaiserNeko]

Yes, he's gotten plenty of victories... back when he was evil, murderous Vegeta. As of now, he's not the person he was before Cell, or even before Buu, and he's trying to do the right thing. Every attempt he's ever made at being a hero has ended with him losing; he was stomped by Perfect Cell in his fit of rage over Trunks, every form of Buu he fought, and Beerus knocked him out the moment he got serious. Of course, in that respect, I'd say Piccolo deserves a win more than Vegeta... but it's more appropriate that Vegeta should beat Freeza. He deserves to be rewarded for coming as far as he has, and I can see no better reward than being able to put down Freeza himself.

The fact that he was brought back at all rather than staying in Hell is too much of a reward as-is.

Cell wasn't an attempt by him to be a hero, he was just pissed that Cell would dare attack his son out of a sense of pride (the son he was plenty willing to emotionally and physically abuse himself). Not to mention that he DID get to distract Cell for the final blow, so he was hardly a failure there. Even though that sequence was completely illogical, since Piccolo should have done the same thing earlier. He also got to smack around Beerus, even though that sequence was completely illogical, and got to create the plan that destroyed Buu, even though that sequence was completely illogical, and was the one to rip out Mr. Buu's pod, even though that sequence was completely illogical.

He's the opposite of someone who deserves more opportunities to shine. The series, both the movies and the manga, have both trampled on their own internal logic countless times to make him look better. Both before and after he "stopped" being evil.

Also: Freeza's "clone"? Are you talking about Vegeta?

Yep.

I don't care about Vegeta's past, because neither does anyone else. That was a essentially a lifetime ago for him. Vegeta has shown that he's a good person, who would humiliate himself and put his own life at risk to save his own life from the indestructible god. I think he deserves to defeat Freeza, the man who made his life a living hell, then proceeded to torture and murder him, regardless of what anyone says.

If it was supposedly a different lifetime, then why do you want Vegeta to beat Freeza? He tortured Evil!Vegeta. It's hardly a lifetime ago, though. The last time he murdered tons of people was just four years ago in-universe by the time of BOG. He has consistently been a horrible person for his entire life, and I'd argue that still is the case by BOG. Freeza's "torture" of Vegeta was just an asshole being a dick to another asshole. If Vegeta was in Freeza's position, he would have done the exact same things at every turn. So why does Vegeta "deserve" anything?

Goku defeated Freeza. Trunks defeated Freeza. Two people who had absolutely no history with him, besides the limited interaction Goku and his friends/family had. Vegeta's history was painful, bloody, and torturous to the last second. Despite his behavior, despite his previous victories, he is a good person now, and if Freeza, of all villains, is coming back? I do not see why Goku should get a second win against him. Vegeta deserves it more from a storytelling standpoint, flat out.

[RandomGuy96]

Goku defeated Freeza. Trunks defeated Freeza. Two people who had absolutely no history with him. Vegeta's history was painful, bloody, and torturous to the last second. Despite his behavior, despite his previous victories, he is a good person now, and if Freeza, of all villains, is coming back? I do not see why Goku should get a second win against him. Vegeta deserves it more from a storytelling standpoint, flat out.

In Dragon Ball, it's normal for someone who has no connection to the villain to beat them. See Vegeta himself, Piccolo, Freeza, Buu, and Cell. Vegeta doing so would be considered outside the norm. We have no evidence that Vegeta's history was "bloody, painful, and torturous". By contrast, he seemed like he enjoyed being a smug murderous bastard, and despite gleefully indulging in mass murder and betraying the heroes several times, he got to retire on Earth, with the gang giving him all the free shit he could ever want. In the final arc, he even manages to escape retribution for his crimes, effectively defeat the main villain, and keep his magical power-up, AFTER he won more victories than pretty much any other character except maybe Goku. All because the characters around him are idiots and because the universe will bend its own laws to make Vegeta look better.

So, again, why does he deserve more?

[VegettoEX]

Thinking about it more, I guess I halfway understand where ANN is coming from. Sort of. Like I explained above, "The F in Fukkatsu" may be a total mistranslation when you look at the context of what we know about the movie's plot and Toriyama's explanation about the title, but looking just at the title 復活の「Ｆ」, it's not a bad first guess. And ANN covers tons and tons of different anime, meaning they have to translate tons and tons of different titles. When you have to deal with that many titles, it probably makes sense to just use quick, first guess translations and then switch to whatever title is used if/when it gets licensed for an English release. They probably don't have time to put a great deal of thought and research into every single translation. They may seem stubborn sticking to their guns even after it's been pointed out why their translation is mistaken, but from their perspective it's probably just easier to wait for some official translation. After all, if they stopped and changed their translation every time some fan complained, it might never end, and the fans would probably be wrong half the time anyway. Verifying that the complaint is valid and that there's something objectively wrong with their translation would take at least a little while, too long for them to bother with each and every title. So from where we're sitting it looks ridiculous because they're totally wrong about the title of the latest DBZ movie, but for them being wrong about one or two titles is just the price they have to pay in order to be able to cover hundreds of titles and be right most of the time. I suppose.

Contrary to what I make it appear to be, I do actually understand that perspective. In a vacuum, sure, I can see getting that translation of the title.

The thing is, the same spiel they wrap up each news post with literally spells out the Maximum the Hormone and "F" connection. They covered that news. They include it each time in each subsequent story. It's right there in the same article each time. The connection is already written right there.

And OH GOD... I absolutely HATE to be "that guy"... and I'm totally being that guy... but I do question their news translation ability sometimes. I'll just chock it up to the overwhelming amount of stuff, and like you said, the non-granular nature of what they do. It's a lot. It really is. It's totally minutia-level stuff, but things like when they originally translated it as "Toriyama had this idea when originally writing the manga" versus what we corrected them on, which was "wrote it AS IF he were still writing the manga". In the grand scheme of things that's a minor distinction, but to us that's huge.

Finally, the fact that they've already changed how they translate the title once before (from "F is for Fukkatsu" to "The F in Fukkatsu"), I don't see why it can't be "changed" again. I don't actually know their news staff at all (not that I know their editorial staff, either), so I don't really know how many people it might be and what the review process is.

Maybe don't even translate it. They already say that "fukkatsu" means "resurrection", so just be non-committal and say something like: "Fukkatsu no F" ("fukkatsu" meaning "resurrection", and the "F" coming from "Freeza"). Yeah, it's kinda unwieldy, but it sure gets the job done better.

And it makes me happy, which is clearly the only thing that matters...!

(I LIKE ANIME NEWS NETWORK. I LIKE THEIR CONTENT A LOT. THEY HAVE BEEN SUPER NICE TO DAIZENSHUU EX / KANZENSHUU OVER THE YEARS. NO ILL WILL. WHY AM I EVEN SAYING THIS. WE'RE ALL REASONABLE ADULTS.)

[KaiserNeko]

Goku defeated Freeza. Trunks defeated Freeza. Two people who had absolutely no history with him. Vegeta's history was painful, bloody, and torturous to the last second. Despite his behavior, despite his previous victories, he is a good person now, and if Freeza, of all villains, is coming back? I do not see why Goku should get a second win against him. Vegeta deserves it more from a storytelling standpoint, flat out.

In Dragon Ball, it's normal for someone who has no connection to the villain to beat them. See Vegeta himself, Piccolo, Freeza, Buu, and Cell. Vegeta doing so would be considered outside the norm. We have no evidence that Vegeta's history was "bloody, painful, and torturous". By contrast, he seemed like he enjoyed being a smug murderous bastard, and despite gleefully indulging in mass murder and betraying the heroes several times, he got to retire on Earth, with the gang giving him all the free shit he could ever want. In the final arc, he even manages to escape retribution for his crimes, effectively defeat the main villain, and keep his magical power-up, AFTER he won more victories than pretty much any other character except maybe Goku. All because the characters around him are idiots and because the universe will bend its own laws to make Vegeta look better.

So, again, why does he deserve more?

I know that it's a running theme for Goku, I wasn't criticizing that at all. Although to be fair, with Cell, that was a somewhat different story, nothing like the others.

As far as Vegeta's history goes, it's pretty easy to determine that Freeza was probably excessively violent with anyone that disobeyed him; despite Vegeta's own personal taste toward violence, that sort of control via fear is pretty terrible. I'm not saying Vegeta was anything less that a terrible person, very much up until the Cell Saga. Hell, if you ever watch our show, we absolutely love to spit in the face of the dub trying to flower him up by saying it was "FREEZA WHO MADE ME THIS WAY!" Regardless, it's still completely personal for Vegeta, who's entire race of people were forced into slavery, including himself, who was also tortured, then murdered, by the man in cold blood.

I'll repeat myself: Vegeta deserves it, from a storytelling perspective, more than Goku.

Goku doesn't really NEED this win against Freeza. Again, he already beat him. Trunks already beat him. Nobody else deserves this win OVER Vegeta at this point, to me.

[dbzfan7]

I don't care about Vegeta's past, because neither does anyone else. That was a essentially a lifetime ago for him. Vegeta has shown that he's a good person, who would humiliate himself and put his own life at risk for the people around him. I think he deserves to defeat Freeza, the man who made his life a living hell, then proceeded to torture and murder him, regardless of what anyone says.

Vegeta's humiliation was also a lifetime ago, yet that still matters and not his horrible deeds? Hell Vegeta killed a bunch of people like 5 years prior to BOG and was one of the solely responsible people for bringing Boo back to life who went on to kill everyone on Earth. Wanting Vegeta to get the kill or whatever because Goku and Trunks already did is one thing, but he does not deserve revenge when it's that treatment that put him on the path he is on today. Without that humiliation Vegeta wouldn't be a good guy today. Vegeta's moment above anything should be accepting his past and realizing he deserved what happened to him and that Freeza in a way set him on the path to having his own family. Back then he'd kill his own kind if they were weak.

Only way Vegeta deserves anything is if his family is involved. Say Trunks getting in trouble since Freeza should remember that the guy who killed him looks just like that boy. Vegeta doesn't deserve revenge for a past he deserved. Even then I don't feel comfortable with him killing Freeza as he in a way owes Freeza for putting him on this path.

[KaiserNeko]

I don't care about Vegeta's past, because neither does anyone else. That was a essentially a lifetime ago for him. Vegeta has shown that he's a good person, who would humiliate himself and put his own life at risk for the people around him. I think he deserves to defeat Freeza, the man who made his life a living hell, then proceeded to torture and murder him, regardless of what anyone says.

Vegeta's humiliation was also a lifetime ago, yet that still matters and not his horrible deeds? Hell Vegeta killed a bunch of people like 5 years prior to BOG and was one of the solely responsible people for bringing Boo back to life who went on to kill everyone on Earth. Wanting Vegeta to get the kill or whatever because Goku and Trunks already did is one thing, but he does not deserve revenge when it's that treatment that put him on the path he is on today. Without that humiliation Vegeta wouldn't be a good guy today. Vegeta's moment above anything should be accepting his past and realizing he deserved what happened to him and that Freeza in a way set him on the path to having his own family. Back then he'd kill his own kind if they were weak.

Vegeta's humiliation is personal between Freeza and him.

Vegeta has a history with Freeza.

If Freeza is coming back, then I don't see anyone who deserves the win more. Goku getting a second win against Freeza is BORING TO ME, unless they somehow found a way to make it compelling. Vegeta, who is finally, 100% a good guy who is doing his best to protect the people cares about, would be far more interesting to me given the circumstances. Hell, he could even beat Freeza, refuse to kill him, then be forced to ALA Goku. I think that would be wonderful.

That's my opinion.