Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:51 pm

- Why? Maybe I can make the gap bigger on their first battle, but I think the gap is just fine on the post, I assume Cell surely absorbed a lot of energy from people, and I assume if he absorbs a person with a power level of 5, his power level goes up by just 5. So in my opinion Cell only went looking for Piccolo and the androids when he was sure his power level was just high enough to be able to absorb 17 or 18.
- You are probably right about it, I've decided to just eliminate non-Ki users power levels from my list as I'm not good with those and they aren't characters taking part in major battles so it makes no sense to list their powers.
- I thought Toriyama stated that Piccolo surely trained, but he trained alone and didn't push himself as much as he did before the Cell games. Considering that by my list, Goku was able only to improve his base power by 1 milion, and he surely trained to push himself to the utter limits like we have seen him doing many times, so if Goku just got up by 1 milion, Piccolo probably was able to just stay in form. I will put him at 500,000,000 on Majin Buu saga too.
- You are right about Tagoma, I will make him weaker.

EDIT: Edited my older post with some tweaks, also added Potara multiplier both for Anime and Manga with different power levels for Vegito.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:13 pm

emperior wrote:- Why? Maybe I can make the gap bigger on their first battle, but I think the gap is just fine on the post, I assume Cell surely absorbed a lot of energy from people, and I assume if he absorbs a person with a power level of 5, his power level goes up by just 5. So in my opinion Cell only went looking for Piccolo and the androids when he was sure his power level was just high enough to be able to absorb 17 or 18.
- You are probably right about it, I've decided to just eliminate non-Ki users power levels from my list as I'm not good with those and they aren't characters taking part in major battles so it makes no sense to list their powers.
- I thought Toriyama stated that Piccolo surely trained, but he trained alone and didn't push himself as much as he did before the Cell games. Considering that by my list, Goku was able only to improve his base power by 1 milion, and he surely trained to push himself to the utter limits like we have seen him doing many times, so if Goku just got up by 1 milion, Piccolo probably was able to just stay in form. I will put him at 500,000,000 on Majin Buu saga too.
- You are right about Tagoma, I will make him weaker.

EDIT: Edited my older post with some tweaks, also added Potara multiplier both for Anime and Manga with different power levels for Vegito.

- While I don't care to much about gaps(unless lines like "I'm only using _% of my power" get thrown around) I don't think absorbing a single human with a PL of 5 would just add 5 to Cell's power level. Not only would Cell have to absorb an insane amount of people, Cell doesn't just siphon off Ki from others like 19 and 20 did. He literally eats people from the inside out and converts their bio-mass to energy, so I'd say he gets a boost greater than what their power level is. Whatever that boost is is up to you to decide.
- As for Mr. Satan, I generally stick him at 6 or 7. He's stronger than a regular human, but he's probably weaker than Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball, who is at a 10. His exact number would be 6.66. Geddit? 666? 'Cause he's Mr. Satan? I'll go away now.

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:16 pm

6.66 for Mr Satan is funny, definitely suits him.

As for Cell, no one knows how many humans he absorbed. You are probably right his power gets boosted more than just by the power level of the people he absorbs. But Cell is able to travel at extremely high speeds so he can probably absorb milions of people in a short time. We don't know how many people he absorbed though, I just assume he absorbed enough just to surpass Piccolo and the androids, as he immediately rushed to the battle when he realized Piccolo was fighting the androids.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:27 am

=Dragon Ball Z= (ignoring scouter/official numbers)
Saiyan Saga

Goku: 85,000 (weighted)

170,000

Gohan (Pre training): 1

287,284 (upset)

555,475 (enraged)

5,554,750 (Oozaru)

Piccolo: 83,000 (weighted)

166,000

Krillin: 13,500 (pre-training)

650,000

Yamcha: 11,500 (pre-training)

616,250

Tenshinhan: 28,000 (pre-training)

765,000

Muten Roshi: 1,000

Chiaotzu: 5,200 (pre-training)

350,000

Yajirobe: 5,800 (pre-training)

414,000

Goku (post-training): 2,187,664 (suppressed)

3,500,000

4,750,000 (Kaio-ken)

7,000,000 (Kaio-ken x2)

10,500,000 (Kaio-ken x3)

14,000,000 (Kaio-ken x4)

Gohan (post-training): 450,000

950,000 (upset)

1,190,000 (enraged)

10,190,000 (Oozaru)

Piccolo (post-training): 900,000

Raditz: 510,000

Saibamen: 510,000

Nappa: 1,700,000

Vegeta: 5,686,789 (suppressed)

7,874,016

78,740,160 (Oozaru)

Namek Saga

Goku: 5,000,000 (pre-training)

36,923,293 (suppressed)

49,218,750

99,439,600 (Kaio-ken x2)

Gohan: 950,000 (pre-unlocked potential)

1,190,000 (pre-unlocked potential;enraged)

6,000,000 (post-unlocked potential; initial)

15,000,000

Krillin: 650,000 (pre-unlocked potential)

4,500,000 (post-unlocked potential; initial)

10,000,000

Vegeta: 14,000,000 (1st zenkai)

17,500,000 (2nd zenkai)

30,523,438

Kiwi: 9,000,000

Dodoria:12,000,000

Zarbon: 13,000,000 (base)

16,000,000 (monster form)

Gurd: 2,000,000

Recoom: 21,875,000

Butta: 23,000,000

Jheese: 24,000,000

Captain Ginyu: 61,523,438

14,857,143 (Goku's body)

Freeza Saga

Coming soon...

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:34 am

What's even the point in ignoring scouter levels on DBZ? I can understand with Dragon Ball, but your levels are already getting way too high.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:52 am

emperior wrote:What's even the point in ignoring scouter levels on DBZ? I can understand with Dragon Ball, but your levels are already getting way too high.

I dunno, but I'm putting Saiyan Arc Piccolo at 42 trillion. Because mah powah levals is bettah than that there mangas.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:05 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
emperior wrote:What's even the point in ignoring scouter levels on DBZ? I can understand with Dragon Ball, but your levels are already getting way too high.
I dunno, but I'm putting Saiyan Arc Piccolo at 42 trillion. Because mah powah levals is bettah than that there mangas.

You mean saiyan arc yamcha? Piccolo at saiyan arc must be like around 100 quintillion units Because ..................

Anyways, I don't have any being in trillions in entire Z , & entire GT (except gogeta & omega).
Even super vegetto is just 400 billion in my list.

Kuririn Fan · Post by **Kuririn Fan** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

I have Freeza at 100 quintillion, because he's a naisu gai.

LightBing · Post by **LightBing** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:35 pm

Why are you guys being so unpleasant? One can use whatever formula he/she likes, it doesn't have to follow any scouter numbers.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:33 pm

LightBing wrote:Why are you guys being so unpleasant? One can use whatever formula he/she likes, it doesn't have to follow any scouter numbers.

Yes, but a list ignoring official sources would be just another random list with random numbers, generating no appeal for the readers

SSJ2FutureGohan · Post by **SSJ2FutureGohan** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:40 pm

I don't really see how one could make a battle powers list for early Dragon Ball without going into decimals. I honestly think Toriyama really goofed up with having beginning-of-Z Goku and Piccolo at around 400, but that's just me I suppose.

LightBing · Post by **LightBing** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:41 pm

Noah wrote:
LightBing wrote:Why are you guys being so unpleasant? One can use whatever formula he/she likes, it doesn't have to follow any scouter numbers.
Yes, but a list ignoring official sources would be just another random list with random numbers, generating no appeal for the readers

The moment anyone makes up a number, even if it follows the "manga logic", they're already throwing random stuff up. There was only one place in this entire forum to share that list, here. DBZAOTA482 didn't share the reasoning behind the list, however mocking it for honestly no good reason at all is..., unpleasant.

Sorry for the off-topic, it's just one of those things that go against what this forum stands for. No matter how mild it was, I felt the need to question it.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:16 am

LightBing wrote:
Noah wrote:
LightBing wrote:Why are you guys being so unpleasant? One can use whatever formula he/she likes, it doesn't have to follow any scouter numbers.
Yes, but a list ignoring official sources would be just another random list with random numbers, generating no appeal for the readers
The moment anyone makes up a number, even if it follows the "manga logic", they're already throwing random stuff up. There was only one place in this entire forum to share that list, here. DBZAOTA482 didn't share the reasoning behind the list, however mocking it for honestly no good reason at all is..., unpleasant.

Sorry for the off-topic, it's just one of those things that go against what this forum stands for. No matter how mild it was, I felt the need to question it.

I made this as I believe the numbers given at the beginning of DBZ were too low given the implied gaps in OG Dragon Ball.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:09 am

I also believe that in BoZ scouter numbers, the power gap between roshi & krillin , roshi & tien , tien & piccolo / goku was too low & it doesn't fit daimao , god & popo easily.

It must've been like this:

roshi - 120
Tien - 300
Krillin - 260
Yamcha - 240

Young daimao - 220

Popo - 360
Kami - 480
Goku & piccolo - 650

Raditz could still be same & every issue is solved, but now we already have manga numbers, they indicate that the gaps weren't too big.
Same as BoG , where base saiyans were nothing to freeza (bar gohan), even though many people believe that they surpassed piccolo.

Khin · Post by **Khin** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:13 am

Actually,if you put BOZ Goku at 910 like how V-Jump have them at,everything would be fine.The moment Raditz check unweighted Piccolo and Goku's power level is when they just removed it,so it could be that they're not at full power at time.I'm planning to change my PL list and have them that way.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:39 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Actually,if you put BOZ Goku at 910 like how V-Jump have them at,everything would be fine.The moment Raditz check unweighted Piccolo and Goku's power level is when they just removed it,so it could be that they're not at full power at time.I'm planning to change my PL list and have them that way.

or power levels were measuring just physical power level, and the total ki level goku & piccolo had, were higher. Like goku resisting the nuclear bomb-like attack from piccolo, & piccolo resisting mega kamehameha.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:47 am

Tier list:

DB:

1. Regular human
2. Thugs / guards , bear thief etc
3. BoDB yamcha , krillin
4. BoDB goku
5. Krillin's bully (oorin temple) , bacterian
6. 21st TB yamcha , giran , panput
7. 21st TB krillin , nam , ninja mursaki
8. General blue , major metallitron
9. 21st TB goku , 21st TB jacky chun , mummy man
10. Goku (pre karin) , Bora , akkuman
11. King chappa , 22nd TB chiatzu , cymbal
12. Grandpa gohan , tao pai pai , 22nd TB yamcha
13. 22nd TB krillin , 23rd TB chiatzu , karin
14. 22nd TB goku (match level) , tamburine , 22nd TB jacky chun
15. 22nd TB tien , 22nd TB goku , yajirobe
16. Drum
17. Old daimao (suppressed, unweighted) , cyborg tao
18. Old daimao , ozaru goku (BoDB)
19. Shenron
20. Young daimao , 23rd TB yamcha , post god water goku , 23rd TB krillin
21. Mr popo , 23rd TB tien
22. Kami
23. Goku & piccolo (23rd TB)

Saiyan invasion & namek trip

22. Kami
23. Goku & piccolo
24. Gohan (upset) , random freeza soldier , Yajirobe , chiatzu (trained)
25. Raditz , saibaman , yamcha , gohan (training)
26. Krillin , tien
27. Piccolo (trained)
28. Young namekians
29. Nappa
30. Goku , ozaru gohan , guldo
31. KK goku
32. Potential unlock krillin , gohan , KK x2 goku
33. Cui , vegeta (earth)
34. KK x3 goku , dodoria , zarbon
35. Vegeta (namek) , ginyu goku , krillin & gohan (vs goku)
36. Monster Zarbon , vegeta (post zarbon)
37. Recoome , jeece , butta , nail
38. Krillin (vs freeza) , filler tien
39. Namek goku , peak canon chiatzu
40. Cap ginyu , namek piccolo
41. KK goku , gohan (vs freeza)
42. Vegeta (vs jeece) , Peak canon yamcha
43. Vegeta (vs freeza) , 1st form freeza
44. Enraged gohan , zenkai gohan , 2nd form freeza (initial)
45. Weighted piccolo , 2nd form freea (full power)
46. Unweighted piccolo, enraged gohan, peak canon tien , peak canon krillin
47. 3rd Form freeza, pre death vegeta
48. Final form freeza , Goku base
49. Powered up freeza
50. No hands freeza
51. KK x10 goku
52. Yakon, #19 (pre vegeta)
53. KK x20 goku & 50% freeza, king cold
54. 70% freeza, dr gero
55. Namek SS goku , 100% freeza

Android & cell arc:

48. Final form freeza, piccolo , vegeta (trunks arrival)
49. Base goku , gohan (post trained)
50. Base Goku , gohan (cell games)
51. #19 (pre goku)
52. #19 (pre vegeta)
53. King cold , 50% freeza
54. Dr gero (post) , vegeta (post)
55. Piccolo (unfused) , SS future trunks
56. SS vegeta
57. Cell (pre) , weighted kamiccolo , Future androids
58. Unweighted kamiccolo , #18 , #17
59. #16 , Cell (post)
60. SS vegeta , trunks (HTC) , intital semi cell
61. Semi-cell FP
62. Super vegeta, super trunks
63. Initial PC, "around half" goku
64. Cell games piccolo
65. Cell games trunks , vegeta , cell jrs
66. Perfect cell (vs goku, gohan) ,CG SS goku , gohan
67. Perfect cell (full power)
68. SS2 gohan (adult)
69. SPC , SS2 kid gohan

Buu arc:

52. Base saiyans, yakon
65. SS trunks , goten
66. Piccolo , SS gohan
67. Goku , vegeta SS , kaioshin , base gotenks (pre)
68. SS2 gohan , Dabura
69. SS2 kid gohan ,SS2 pre majin vegeta , initial fat buu
70. Majin vegeta , SS2 goku
71. SS gotenks (post) , base gotenks (pre) , SS2 Z sword gohan
72. Fat buu , Mr buu
73. Evil skinny buu
74. SS gotenks (post) , Kid buu , SS3 goku
75. Super buu , SS3 gotenks
76. Gohan, buff buu
77. Buutenks , buuhan
78. -----------
79. SS vegetto

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:00 pm

You guys forget in original Dragon Ball power levels weren't introduced, and it was more focused on: Skill, Power and Speed. Also fighters' body and experience made a big difference, and their techniques made a HUGE difference.
Scouters have a different way of measuring one's strength but you have to remember that when Goku fired a kamehameha against Raditz, it increased his power to 1000.

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:31 am

emperior wrote:You guys forget in original Dragon Ball power levels weren't introduced, and it was more focused on: Skill, Power and Speed. Also fighters' body and experience made a big difference, and their techniques made a HUGE difference.
Scouters have a different way of measuring one's strength but you have to remember that when Goku fired a kamehameha against Raditz, it increased his power to 1000.

Just like I posted above, I believe ki level & power level are twi different things, & it is what makes earthlings special.
Like goku & piccolo using their strongest attacks at 23rd TB & resisting with little damage, but being KO'd by raditz hits.
Or the scouter increase from KHH & SBC, maybe that was the total ki they can use, above physical PL.

When krillin got enraged (vs saibaman) , everyone (including piccolo) was amazed. Similarly, we see KK x3 goku stalemating galick gun, while he was thrashing around vegeta.

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:06 am

UPDATED LIST. MINIMUM Possible PLs. I just ignored the Daizenshuu levels of Freezer's Final Form being 120,000,000, and from there I tried to stay as low as I could. There might be some errors obviously, if you guys notice, please point them out. I could even go lower, and I will try, so it's possible this post might get heavily edited.

Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x base
SSJ - 50x Base
SSJ Grade 2 - 60x Base with 5% speed loss
SSJ Grade 3 - 80x Base with 10% speed loss
FPSSJ - 60x Base with no drawbacks
SSJ2 - 100x Base
SSJ3 - 150x Base

Fusions
Dance = [(A+B)] x 3
Potara (Manga) = Average of PL x300
Potara (Anime) = Average of PL x1500

Dragon Ball Z

Raditz Arc

Spoiler:

Saiyan Saga

Spoiler:

Namek Arc

Spoiler:

Freezer’s Saga

Spoiler:

Trunks Arc

Spoiler:

Android Saga

Spoiler:

Cell Saga

Spoiler:

Cell Games

Spoiler:

The Future

Spoiler:

Babidi Saga

Spoiler:

Buu Saga

Spoiler:

Kanzenshuu

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