Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

[Super Sonic]

True. Remember when DB started on Toonami, it had Thundercats and Johnny Quest on too. Now CN only cares about Canadian imports and reality shows.

[Hujio]

Haha, no I agree, he's right. But at least when I was a kid, we were actually given GOOD things to watch. There's no doubt that networks like Disney and Cartoon Network have gone downhill.

That's one of the most biased things I've read thus far in this, dare I say, discussion. Everything is always better in the past, that's just what most people think. Most tend to dwell on the past fondly, saying "When things were good". The reason things seem good to you when looking back into the past is because we naturally try to leave out anything that was bad about it. You can't say when we were kids the shows were actually GOOD, because you have nothing to base that on other than your own opinion. That argument doesn't make any sense. Penn & Teller's Bullshit did a great episode in their 6th season about the "Good Ol' Days", which really hammers this point home. I'd post a link, but there's nudity, so you can find it yourself.

Trust me, most of the 6-year-old's of today will be saying "we were actually given GOOD things to watch on Disney when I was young" 20 years from now. It's just gonna happen. Bias is bias, and this is bias.

[Big Momma]

Haha, no I agree, he's right. But at least when I was a kid, we were actually given GOOD things to watch. There's no doubt that networks like Disney and Cartoon Network have gone downhill.

That's one of the most biased things I've read thus far in this, dare I say, discussion. Everything is always better in the past, that's just what most people think. Most tend to dwell on the past fondly, saying "When things were good". The reason things seem good to you when looking back into the past is because we naturally try to leave out anything that was bad about it. You can't say when we were kids the shows were actually GOOD, because you have nothing to base that on other than your own opinion. That argument doesn't make any sense. Penn & Teller's Bullshit did a great episode in their 6th season about the "Good Ol' Days", which really hammers this point home. I'd post a link, but there's nudity, so you can find it yourself.

Trust me, most of the 6-year-old's of today will be saying "we were actually given GOOD things to watch on Disney when I was young" 20 years from now. It's just gonna happen. Bias is bias, and this is bias.

I have no problem saying that things were better before I was born. Children's programming when I was a child was worse than when my parents were young, and so on.

I'm not just saying that because "it's the thing everyone says". Let's take a look at Disney. When I was a kid, they aired shows like Goof Troop, Even Stevens, and Timon & Pumbaa. They did shows that truly felt like they were made FOR me, FOR the kids. The overall atmosphere of the channel is completely different nowadays. Shows like Hannah Montana, Wizards on Waverly Place, and The Suite Life of Zach and Cody (These "Pseudo-sitcoms" with overused laugh tracks) are nothing more than 30 minute advertisements, whoring out their latest music stars. The shows also convey very different messages then older shows.

I remember, on Goof Troop, of course Max would get into trouble every episode, but in the end, he would learn his lesson. And the show always conveyed good Morales about the importance of that Son-Father bond he shares with Goofy. Now, Hannah Montana isn't as bad, but Zach and Cody are completely horrible. They get into all the same shenanigans, but in the end, they don't really learn any lessons. It ends with them just joking about it, but they're really back where they started. Also, it seems like these boys have a new girlfriend every episode. That's my biggest irk with the series. Make fun of me all you want, but I hate this part of the show. They'll spend an entire episode fighting over/trying to get a girl, but the next week their on to something new. That's not the kind of thing we should be teaching kids. That it's okay to just move on from person to person if someone better/more convenient comes along? That, along with all the predictable, cliche-as-heck jokes, just really irks me.

And then there's Cartoon Network. For some reason, they've felt the need to change their very purpose. They've began airing these CN REAL blocks of programming that consist of Reality shows. I don't really have anything against these shows themselves (I've watched them, and they are pretty interesting) but they don't belong on the channel. It's called CARTOON Network. I remember when that's all it was: Cartoons 24/7. Ever since they've gotten rid of Toonami, their Cartoon Cartoon Fridays, and started airing these reality shows, the channel has drastically changed.

The 6-year olds now can say all they want in 20 years, and it'll probably true. I can completely agree that cartoons 20 years from now won't even be as good as cartoons now (They'll probably all be CGI, which is another can of worms I'm not gonna open). That doesn't change that cartoons/children's programming just progressively waters itself down over the years. Whether it be in 20 years, today, 20 years ago, or 50 years ago.

...oh wow, that was quite a rant.

Allow me to put some "on-topic"-ness into the post.

Regardless of what either side thinks, what FUNi did with the show at first way back when has already happen. And it worked. It doesn't matter if the show would have done well with the original score, they used a new score and it sold incredibly well, just as they expected it to.

[penguintruth]

Please, they could have added a soundtrack that was nothing but armpit farts and it still would have sold.

[Hujio]

Here's the thing. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, and it most certainly doesn't mean that whatever you personally like is better. It just means you don't like it. Period. A 6-year-old thinks different than a teenager. When you watched shows as you kid, you probably didn't think "OMG, how many girlfriends can these guys have?" because kids just don't think that way. You've learned these things over the years; it's called experience, or learning, or being educated, or maturing, etc. All I'm saying is that you can't say definitively that the Disney Channel or Cartoon Network were in-fact better in the past, most likely when you were a kid, than they are now. There's no basis for this since it's your opinion.

You can say, "IMO, I liked the shows more in the past than I do now". There's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, the original Japanese version is better than the dubbed version. In my opinion, the manga is better than the anime. In my opinion, DragonBall is better than DragonBall Z, and GT is just crap. Those are all opinions, not facts.

[Big Momma]

Here's the thing. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, and it most certainly doesn't mean that whatever you personally like is better. It just means you don't like it. Period. A 6-year-old thinks different than a teenager. When you watched shows as you kid, you probably didn't think "OMG, how many girlfriends can these guys have?" because kids just don't think that way. You've learned these things over the years; it's called experience, or learning, or being educated, or maturing, etc. All I'm saying is that you can't say definitively that the Disney Channel or Cartoon Network were in-fact better in the past, most likely when you were a kid, than they are now. There's no basis for this since it's your opinion.

You can say, "IMO, I liked the shows more in the past than I do now". There's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, the original Japanese version is better than the dubbed version. In my opinion, the manga is better than the anime. In my opinion, DragonBall is better than DragonBall Z, and GT is just crap. Those are all opinions, not facts.

Oh, haha, I understand that it is all my opinion, and I probably should have made it more clear in my post. (I did come close multiple times to putting "it's a fact, etc." in my post due to almost getting carried away, but I was able to refrain to doing so because it isn't true).

Didn't we just have a tangent about this a couple pages ago about stating "I believe" or "This is my opinion" before posts to make these things clear?

Please, they could have added a soundtrack that was nothing but armpit farts and it still would have sold.

Of course it would have. An all-armpit soundtrack would have been completely innovative/original/awesome at the time, and I sure as heck would have watched and loved every minute of it.

[penguintruth]

Of course it would have. An all-armpit soundtrack would have been completely innovative/original/awesome at the time, and I sure as heck would have watched and loved every minute of it.

I sort of want to hear an entire DBZ Abridged episode with just armpit noises as the soundtrack.

[russ869]

It's not Funimation's job to provide a score for a show.

I definitely agree. There is no need to alter the video or soundtrack or sound effects when translating a foreign film or TV show.

And, frankly, much like the dub script itself, I find the Faulconer music to be another sad commentary on the viewers. It's insulting the way they put in all this video game-sounding music to keep the attention of 9-year olds.

Yeah. It's pretty characteristic of the way hilariously bad dubs are typically done.

As far as I'm concerned, if they felt they couldn't sell DBZ as it was, without replacing the music, they shouldn't have done it at all.

This is exactly right. If it was true as you say that the difference between the success or failure of DBZ in America was dependent on something as simple as the music, then there wouldn't have a been enough of an interested market for it to even be worth licensing Dragon Ball for broadcast on US TV. Bruce Falconer didn't make Funimation successful.

[Sebastian (SB)]

Which is why they've changed their quota on dubbing. From Fruits Baskets and Yu Yu Hakusho to now, everything went swell for them, and they "didn't have to change a damn thing" to be successful. If not including the dub music on the Dragon Boxes is not evidence enough of this, I don't know what is. The Dragon Boxes being a whole other topic of "elevated interest".

[Pitzu]

I read some complaints about CN Real.

Slowly but surely, Cartoons are coming back to cartoon network.
I read on /co/ that it's projected that by Summer '10, CN will be mostly Cartoons with a few diminishing reality shows.

[Innagadadavida]

I read on /co/ that it's projected that by Summer '10, CN will be mostly Cartoons with a few diminishing reality shows.

Cartoons like Adventure Time, MOFO~ WOOO!

I'd like to see an action block with some Kai and some One Piece. I'd tune in and pretend I'm 13 again.

[Gotham22]

I first watched it that way. I love the rock music, etc.
The original music grewed on me but I perfer the dub more.

[B]

Way to necro, dude.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

Why must you criticise the members of the fandom who prefer the dub? It's like, all the time with both you and Penguin"truth."
Believe it or not, we dub-fans are aware of the changes in the script, tone, etc. Guess what, though, we still like it.
This whole "undying hatred for the dub" thing always boggles my mind. We're all getting the same uncut action, at the end of the day.

[Armymanis]

There are many reasons why I love the English Dubbed Version. The main one reason any of us can expect me to answer is because it is in English! I am very busy with school and other family obligations, so I do not have enough time to learn Japanese and be able to understand it.

If I did have the time, then I would learn Japanese and watch them on DVD. But since I don't then I will just stick with the English Dubbed series.

[VegettoEX]

Why must you criticise the members of the fandom who prefer the dub? It's like, all the time with both you and Penguin"truth."
Believe it or not, we dub-fans are aware of the changes in the script, tone, etc. Guess what, though, we still like it.
This whole "undying hatred for the dub" thing always boggles my mind. We're all getting the same uncut action, at the end of the day.

This boggles my mind.

You're the one who started the thread and asked the question in the the first place. If you don't like the answers you're getting, and pretty much knew what those answers were going to be when you even bothered to ask the question... why did you ask the question at all?

A pristine example of the asinine hypersensitivity that I'm talking about lately. You wanted to know why people are die-hard fans of the dub. You can't exclude others from telling their relevant stories, as much as you don't want to hear them.

It seems to me, if you'll allow me to dig a little deeper, that you're looking for validation -- you want someone to just tell you, "Hey man, it's cool... you're OK for liking the dub!" Here's that validation: go for it.

At the same time, keep in mind that Daizenshuu EX as a website is certainly not in the business of validating (never mind focusing on) FUNimation's English dub in any way, shape, or form. Due to that, our forum's community is heavily skewed in our same way, especially when you consider our hugely-international fanbase that certainly can't care any less about that one particular dub. It doesn't seem very logical to come here and wonder why the majority aren't dub fans (which I'd actually argue may not be entirely true, but it's far too difficult to accurately gauge...).

[laserkid]

Since this mess of a topic's come back up (and Mike's covered the sillyness already), I'm going to flatly answer your question.

No one is criticising anyone for liking the dub.

People are criticising the dub itself.

People are also criticising the oversensitivity of dub fans to afformentioned dub critiques.

People are also criticising dub fans who proclaim the dub is accurate for being uninformed.

Lastly, people are criticising dub fans who claim the changes don't matter, for being foolish.

NONE of these fall under the "criticising me for liking the dub".

You can like the dub all you want, but when you take negative responses to it too seriously, when you claim it as accurate, or claim the innacuracies don't matter, you're going to be argued with 'till the cows come home.

You just say you like the dub, and we'll smile and nod at you and wonder why you felt it necessary to tell us that. I don't go around telling you I love Megaman all the time, but it's just as discussable as the fact you like the dub so much.

[B]

Why must you criticise the members of the fandom who prefer the dub? It's like, all the time with both you and Penguin"truth."
Believe it or not, we dub-fans are aware of the changes in the script, tone, etc. Guess what, though, we still like it.
This whole "undying hatred for the dub" thing always boggles my mind. We're all getting the same uncut action, at the end of the day.

I criticize stupid things/things that don't make any sense. If a dub fan happens to exhibit those qualities, then so be it. I haven't seen any particular good reason from you or anyone else why the dub is a watchable program, and as long this is a discussion forum, I'm going to state my opinion and discuss. EX hit it on the head; all you want is for someone to tell you it's okay you like your dub. I'm not your mom and that isn't my problem. And, quite frankly, the fact that your clawing at every inch for your validation by namedropping Penguintruth and myself when he's not in this thread and I hadn't done anything but point out the new guy had revived a dead thread only shows me how insecure you are in your liking of the dub. YouTube is cluttered with insults towards the Japaense version, the version I like. I am not crying about it.

Lastly, I don't hate the dub. Sonny Strait kicks ass, takes names, and bones hot cyborgs.

[xzero]

YouTube is cluttered with insults towards the Japaense version, the version I like. I am not crying about it.

I'd hope not. Nothing worse than taking the grammatically incorrect criticisms of 11 year olds so seriously that you start to cry.

I haven't seen any particular good reason from you or anyone else why the dub is a watchable program

I think this statement is kind of the problem (and I'm not targeting you directly for any reason beyond your articulation of the sentiment). It's like sub fans want some objective reason from dub fans as to why they like the dub better, and the truth is that there is no objective reason.

Personally, I like the dub better. Why? Primarily nostalgia, but I also enjoy the Faulconer music (along with lots of other dub fans in America). This does not mean that I dislike the original version, and it does not mean that my argument is that the dub is inherently superior or that the sub is inherently inferior. Simply put, as a matter of preference, I like the dub. It's not perfect, as Goku and Freeza's season 3 lines will indicate, but overall, I find it to be a competent product. They generally stayed true to the spirit of the original despite the several changes (most of which have since been corrected by the partial redub).

My ultimate point is this: the objective reason as to why the dub is watchable is that it's still Dragon Ball Z. If you are one of the millions of people who enjoy Dragon Ball Z, there is no reason that the dub is unwatchable because it retains the spirit of the show. Yes, certain things were changed, and if Funi went back and redubbed the series line-by-line making it as good as pretty much every other anime they've licensed since 2003, I'd be happier. With or without that, this is still Dragon Ball Z, and the fact that we're even discussing it here is indicative of the fact that we're fans of Dragon Ball Z in general despite our differing preferences.

[LeprikanGT]

The first thing I could think of was "I'm a hardcore Dub fan for the same reason youre not fan of Dubbed Family Guy in Latin."

Meaning, I only speak English so thats what I prefer. I've watched the full series in both Jp and English, I'm still an English fan more than the JP.