Unpopular DB opinions

[Kaboom]

To be fair, Bobbidi DID hold a grudge against Kaioshin for foiling and killing Bibbidi, and then sicced Majin Boo on him specifically.

[Zephyr]

The point I was getting at is that the Majin Boo Saga was an unstructured mess. At least GT made an effort to connect itself with Goku, and the dragonballs. I mean, what did Majin Boo have to with anything?

How does a greater level of connectedness to already established characters and lore equal more plot?

I tend to love what the Buu arc did.

- Vegeta fucks things up for everybody. Again. But dies for it this time.
- Gotenks seems like a complete jab at Vegeta as a character.
- A new transformation is reached! And it actually doesn't save the day.
- Somebody gets their potential unlocked. Again. And the repetitiveness of it is acknowledged by Goku.
- A Genki Dama actually works this time.

Despite the fact that the main antagonists of the arc have no connection with the characters, the excuses that Dragon Ball typically falls back on to up the stakes, or bring closure to an arc, are flipped on their heads. That gives it, in my opinion, a better out of universe connection to the series as a whole than any other arc.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

- Vegeta fucks things up for everybody. Again. But dies for it this time.

He died again in Freeza arc. He challenged Freeza to transform, and when he reached his final form, Vegeta died after crying... like a bitch.

[DBZAOTA482]

The point I was getting at is that the Majin Boo Saga was an unstructured mess. At least GT made an effort to connect itself with Goku, and the dragonballs. I mean, what did Majin Boo have to with anything?

How does a greater level of connectedness to already established characters and lore equal more plot?

I tend to love what the Buu arc did.

- Vegeta fucks things up for everybody. Again. But dies for it this time.
- Gotenks seems like a complete jab at Vegeta as a character.
- A new transformation is reached! And it actually doesn't save the day.
- Somebody gets their potential unlocked. Again. And the repetitiveness of it is acknowledged by Goku.
- A Genki Dama actually works this time.

Despite the fact that the main antagonists of the arc have no connection with the characters, the excuses that Dragon Ball typically falls back on to up the stakes, or bring closure to an arc, are flipped on their heads. That gives it, in my opinion, a better out of universe connection to the series as a whole than any other arc.

That's also one of the problems I have with the Majin Boo Saga. The fact that an author has to resort to bottom of the barrel ideas like mocking the clichés in his/her own work is an official sign of jumping the shark. That, and the unexplained shift of tone from Sci-Fi to Magic.

[Kaboom]

Yet that's why I personally like the Majin Boo arc so much. It was dramatic and action-packed like the other "Z" era stories, but at the same time, it seemed like Toriyama got to turn down the "serious business" approach of Freeza and Cell, and instead cut loose and return to some of his more comedy-loving roots. Things like returning to magic over technology, goofy self-referential in-jokes, Looney Tunes-esque gag characters like Gotenks... Despite all the "Majin Boo's gonna kill everyone and everything" drama, the arc had an almost irreverent atmosphere of "let's just have fun with it" and is a hoot to read.

Diff'rent strokes, I guess.

[penguintruth]

Eh, the Buu arc jerks the reader/viewer around too much. First it's a tournament arc with Gohan as the hero, then comes aliens and magic, then there's a rematch between Goku and Vegeta which leads to a supernatural blob monster and Gohan is seemingly killed. Vegeta is killed and Goku trains Goten and Trunks to be the heroes, so they're the heroes for a while, until they fail, and then Gohan, who it turns out survived, is the hero again, but he fails as well and Goku becomes the hero again. But he's not enough so Vegetto becomes the hero, but he's absorbed and Goku and Vegeta are the heroes, but then Vegeta sucks, so Goku is the hero again, and then it's a tournament arc again, except it's not because it ends right away and Goku abandons his family to train some poor kid he's just met while Gohan is just some nerd that does nothing for the rest of his life and that's the end of Dragon Ball forever and ever.

[Saiga]

Yeah, I really don't see why it's actually important to have a pre-established connection to the heroes. It's probably a bad thing to overdo the connections, really... because then it feels like it's the heroes' fault that villains exist in the first place.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I have mixed opinions about the Buu arc. The story itself doesn't even compare to the previous arcs however the character development in this arc more than makes up for it. I almost shed a tear when Vegeta committed suicide to save his entire family and the Earth. It was quite a phenomenal scene that really changes Vegeta for the better. Then there is Gohan whom I actually liked despite all the criticism. Seeing Gohan go to High School had a strange sense of charm to it. Saiyaman also has some sort of charm. Its fun to see Gohan act like such a fool . Then there is Mr Satan who went from a complete ass hole that you just despised with a passion to a pretty cool guy that actually saved the universe. The thing I disliked the most in this arc was Vegeta not becoming a SSJ3. I know call me a fanboy if you will but I really think it would have been cool to see Vegeta go SSJ3 against Kid Buu out of anger or something.

[Zephyr]

- Vegeta fucks things up for everybody. Again. But dies for it this time.

He died again in Freeza arc. He challenged Freeza to transform, and when he reached his final form, Vegeta died after crying... like a bitch.

True, forgot about that.
Though, this time he seems to want to atone for all of the times he was a crisis-causing asshole.

The fact that an author has to resort to bottom of the barrel ideas like mocking the clichés in his/her own work is an official sign of jumping the shark. That, and the unexplained shift of tone from Sci-Fi to Magic.

If the series had continued in that fashion for a couple more story arcs, I would agree with you. But it had been going for a decade, and this was its finale. Seems suitable to me as a one time thing for a finale. Toriyama had more than earned the right to make fun of his own series, and it sent the series off with a humorous tone, in a self-aware way. Although I can understand if one would dislike such treatment of a beloved series' finale.

As for sci-fi and magic, they seemed to be mixed together in the arc, rather than shifting back and forth. Aliens who use magic. Aliens who use magic to create monsters. Magical alien monster who turns people into candy. Magical fusing technique learned from dead aliens being put to use in an attempt to destroy said magical alien monster. Etc.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yet that's why I personally like the Majin Boo arc so much. It was dramatic and action-packed like the other "Z" era stories, but at the same time, it seemed like Toriyama got to turn down the "serious business" approach of Freeza and Cell, and instead cut loose and return to some of his more comedy-loving roots. Things like returning to magic over technology, goofy self-referential in-jokes, Looney Tunes-esque gag characters like Gotenks... Despite all the "Majin Boo's gonna kill everyone and everything" drama, the arc had an almost irreverent atmosphere of "let's just have fun with it" and is a hoot to read.

Diff'rent strokes, I guess.

Actually, I enjoyed the Majin Boo Saga...A LOT but the same time, it's a very annoying Saga.

However, as the characters are still likable and the action is still good...who am I to complain? Can't say the same about GT though.

[Vice]

Look, I get the point of this topic and I'm not trying to start an argument but I find myself disagreeing with pretty much everything Saiga has said.

[Ringworm128]

I prefer the hard rock soundtracks for some of the DBZ movies since they give them a really intense vibe and I think they're more fitting considering a lot of the movies are nothing but action.

[dbzfan7]

-I only like the character themes from Faulconer, Everything else sucks. (Cept Ginyu's Transformation)

-I prefer Yamamoto to Kikuchi (Several cases make me say other wise)

-I have Masako X tied with Sean Schemmel as favourite Goku. (Masako X needs to do a more accurate Goku more often like how he is portrayed in Death Battle, Though he tends to slip into a weird english lisp at some points)

-I don't see LK as good as Chris Ayres. He makes me laugh (in a really good way) more then I take him seriously. If I want humor then he is the better Freeza, if I want serious I go with Ayres (excluding Japanese voice even though he is the best)

-I like fusion reborn(I hear hate for this one for some reason)

-I don't like Kid Gohan that much (so many think he is so badass because of SSJ2, but I don't see it when he is more of a cry baby and a wuss) (Not his fault entirely though)

[Rory]

Yet that's why I personally like the Majin Boo arc so much. It was dramatic and action-packed like the other "Z" era stories, but at the same time, it seemed like Toriyama got to turn down the "serious business" approach of Freeza and Cell, and instead cut loose and return to some of his more comedy-loving roots.

Thing is, there was a definite tone set by the arcs that came before it, and to suddenly revert back to how it was in the beginning (or at least lean in closer to it), is pretty jarring. I do like the 'goofier' stuff that gets the story going, and the more light hearted first ten volumes, but it's odd to just go back to it, seemingly because Toriyama just didn't know where else to go, and it ultimately throws off the progression of the series. It takes away from how the series has grown from light hearted mystical adventure of a strange boy, to the action packed sci-fi battle arcs.
Different strokes indeed, but you can't say it doesn't throw the balance off the story in it's entirety somewhat.

[Cipher]

Yet that's why I personally like the Majin Boo arc so much. It was dramatic and action-packed like the other "Z" era stories, but at the same time, it seemed like Toriyama got to turn down the "serious business" approach of Freeza and Cell, and instead cut loose and return to some of his more comedy-loving roots.

Thing is, there was a definite tone set by the arcs that came before it, and to suddenly revert back to how it was in the beginning (or at least lean in closer to it), is pretty jarring. I do like the 'goofier' stuff that gets the story going, and the more light hearted first ten volumes, but it's odd to just go back to it, seemingly because Toriyama just didn't know where else to go, and it ultimately throws off the progression of the series. It takes away from how the series has grown from light hearted mystical adventure of a strange boy, to the action packed sci-fi battle arcs.
Different strokes indeed, but you can't say it doesn't throw the balance off the story in it's entirety somewhat.

I actually think it's the two previous arcs that feel out-of-tone and start to drag. The Boo arc feels refreshing in this regard, while still giving us a dire plot and taking the series to its next logical realms of power, villains, etc. Tonally, though, the Boo arc is a return to form, which, combined with the dire plot, is perfect for a real shit-hitting-the-walls ridiculous finale.

I can see how your mileage may vary though. At the end of the day, I think fans who prefer the Cell arc vs the Boo arc (those are really the extremes; the Saiyan and Freeza arc still feels like too steady a progression) enjoy the series for completely different reasons.

I guess I'm kind of glad Dragon Ball had a brief self-serious part before the end, because all the arcs work better together than they do apart, and the Boo arc also wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable were it not, in a lot of ways, a response to what came before it. As it stands, though, the best thing about the Boo arc is everything.

[Bussani]

That, and the unexplained shift of tone from Sci-Fi to Magic.

Did it need to be explained? Dragon Ball always had a mix of fantasy and super science. I don't think it ever really became solid science fiction, even in the Cell arc.

[Rocketman]

"I watched it murder my mother. A HOO HOO SUPER VOLLEYBALL YAAAAAAY"" - the Buu Arc

[Insertclevername]

That, and the unexplained shift of tone from Sci-Fi to Magic.

Did it need to be explained? Dragon Ball always had a mix of fantasy and super science. I don't think it ever really became solid science fiction, even in the Cell arc.

Do you think perhaps Science-fantasy would be a better term? But then that kind of seems too much Star Wars-y.

[DBZAOTA482]

That, and the unexplained shift of tone from Sci-Fi to Magic.

Did it need to be explained? Dragon Ball always had a mix of fantasy and super science. I don't think it ever really became solid science fiction, even in the Cell arc.

Actually, when it moved into the Piccolo Daimao Saga and began to develope it's own indentity it was first and foremost sci-fi action. In fact, Toriyama-sensei says the genre of sci-fi plays a huge influence in his work (I.E. Red Robin Army) but that sort of sidelines by the Majin Boo in favor of magic.

It's not a huge issue or anything but it's not consistent continuity.

[Bussani]

Do you think perhaps Science-fantasy would be a better term?

Pretty much, yeah.

Actually, when it moved into the Piccolo Daimao Saga and began to develope it's own indentity it was first and foremost sci-fi action.

What part of the Daimao arc was "sci-fi action"? They were fighting a demon who'd been sealed in a rice cooker. Even if we skip ahead to when Raditz showed up and we got aliens and other planets and stuff, the fantasy elements didn't just disappear. The story was a mix of the two from the very start, and focusing on one or the other at any given time just never felt strange to me.