Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs for starters, and maybe I should have said "evolving into it".Bussani wrote:What part of the Daimao arc was "sci-fi action"? They were fighting a demon who'd been sealed in a rice cooker.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Actually, when it moved into the Piccolo Daimao Saga and began to develope it's own indentity it was first and foremost sci-fi action.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
I fail to see how vomiting eggs makes it sci-fi.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs for starters
The fantasy elements I spoke of were, in fact, magic. Dragon Ball is full of magic. It was a mix of magic and comic book science from the get go. Sometimes it focused on the comic book science, e.g. the robots and powered armor of the Red Ribbon Army, and then, without warning, it would switch and be about witches who scout strong fighters from the great beyond. It's a story where someone can die fighting an alien and then travel through the afterlife to train under a god. I don't find it jarring in the slightest because, to me, that's how it always was.Anyways, fantasy is not automatically defined as magic.
1. The ability to vomit eggs is linked to biology, which is a sub-category of science.Bussani wrote:I fail to see how vomiting eggs makes it sci-fi.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs for starters
The fantasy elements I spoke of were, in fact, magic. Dragon Ball is full of magic. It was a mix of magic and comic book science from the get go. Sometimes it focused on the comic book science, e.g. the robots and powered armor of the Red Ribbon Army, and then, without warning, it would switch and be about witches who scout strong fighters from the great beyond. It's a story where someone can die fighting an alien and then travel through the afterlife to train under a god. I don't find it jarring in the slightest because, to me, that's how it always was.Anyways, fantasy is not automatically defined as magic.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Yes eating is indeed biology but Piccolo's way of producing and laying eggs is a fictional bending of the real-life confines of producing and laying eggs therefore it is science fiction.Saiga wrote:By that logic, eating is a form of biology and as such it has always been a Sci-Fi manga.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs isn't as important as the fact that he's from a demon clan, personified manifestation of the evil that Kami had to expel from himself. And the spirits of said demon clan's victims never go to the afterlife. All fantasy elements that far overshadow any sci-fi elements. As for "evolving into it", as others have said, the series always had it's fair deal of sci-fi from the very beginning.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs for starters, and maybe I should have said "evolving into it".
Anyways, fantasy is not automatically defined as magic.
1. The ability to vomit eggs that hatch full grown, powerful demon clan members. I'd say that's fantasy. Better yet, being able to reincarnate oneself by spitting your essence out in a egg is far more fantasy than sci-fi.DBZAOTA482 wrote: 1. The ability to vomit eggs is linked to biology, which is a sub-category of science.
2. Urani Baba is a minor character thus her being a witch has little to no impact on the overall tone of the narrative. That's like saying DBZ is a comedy series for having comedic reliefs character like Chi-Chi and Mr. Satan, plus Urani's story arc took place at a simpler time when Dragon Ball was still a gag series loosely based on the chinese folktale "Journey of the West".
3. Dying in combat and exploring the afterlife so you train with god isn't magic, just fantasy.
Zephyr wrote:Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs isn't as important as the fact that he's from a demon clan, personified manifestation of the evil that Kami had to expel from himself. And the spirits of said demon clan's victims never go to the afterlife. All fantasy elements that far overshadow any sci-fi elements. As for "evolving into it", as others have said, the series always had it's fair deal of sci-fi from the very beginning.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Piccolo's ability to vomit out eggs for starters, and maybe I should have said "evolving into it".
Anyways, fantasy is not automatically defined as magic.
Fantasy and magic more often than not go hand in hand.
[/quote]Zephyr wrote:1. The ability to vomit eggs that hatch full grown, powerful demon clan members. I'd say that's fantasy. Better yet, being able to reincarnate oneself by spitting your essence out in a egg is far more fantasy than sci-fi.DBZAOTA482 wrote: 1. The ability to vomit eggs is linked to biology, which is a sub-category of science.
2. Urani Baba is a minor character thus her being a witch has little to no impact on the overall tone of the narrative. That's like saying DBZ is a comedy series for having comedic reliefs character like Chi-Chi and Mr. Satan, plus Urani's story arc took place at a simpler time when Dragon Ball was still a gag series loosely based on the chinese folktale "Journey of the West".
3. Dying in combat and exploring the afterlife so you train with god isn't magic, just fantasy.
2. The tone isn't important. When figuring out if something is sci-fi vs fantasy it's the content that matters, not the tone. I really shouldn't need to explain why Uranai Baba's sub arc is nothing but magic/fantasy.
3. Whether you want to call it magic or fantasy, it's certainly not sci-fi, and said afterlife-exploration was one of the focuses of the first half of the Saiyan arc.
Even in the Cell arc there were a few major plot points that hinged on fantasy. The Namekian fusion and the RoSaT were both fantasy/magic.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.
Yeah! The collaboration between freeza and his gang and cell is epic.Sinestro wrote:I don't know how popular or unpopular it is, but I love it when they show the villains in Hell.
The Driving School filler episode was actually one of my favorites in the whole series. That wasn't action packed, but it did have a little in it.shreddinghead wrote:I even like those episodes which aren't action-packed.
It's funny how even the smallest connection to science can make it sci-fi for you, but witches and afterlifes and magical dragons aren't enough to make it not sci-fi.DBZAOTA482 wrote:1. The ability to vomit eggs is linked to biology, which is a sub-category of science.
Whatever you want to call it, it's not sci-fi.3. Dying in combat and exploring the afterlife so you train with god isn't magic, just fantasy.
DBZAOTA482 wrote: I know that already, but what I meant was that the Piccolo Daimao Saga was when the series had began transcending from a gag series to establishing it's own "more serious, action-orienated" style.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Uranai Baba's sub arc took place when it was still a gag series, and hadn't developed a style of it's own yet. Once you've finally established a style of storytelling in a particular work, it's most always imperative that you stick to it or else the story will suffer.
You seem to have this belief that Dragon Ball didn't become its own, have a true style, or have a solid style of storytelling until it became a more action focused series. Gonna have to disagree, but if you choose to see it that way that's fine. This is the topic for that after all.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Toriyama-sensei abandoned his roots by the Majin Boo Saga
Okay wrong words. What I mean is that at the beginning, it had a very basic plot that had no set direction. It was just a light-hearted reliteration of the chinese folktale "Journey of the West" but by DBZ, it's fully-established the direction it was heading to (Sci-fantasy action series where Goku's past comes back to nip him in the bud, and dying a hero along with his sins) and it became it's own thing except the few plot details that pay homage to Superman and Terminator.Zephyr wrote:DBZAOTA482 wrote: I know that already, but what I meant was that the Piccolo Daimao Saga was when the series had began transcending from a gag series to establishing it's own "more serious, action-orienated" style.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Uranai Baba's sub arc took place when it was still a gag series, and hadn't developed a style of it's own yet. Once you've finally established a style of storytelling in a particular work, it's most always imperative that you stick to it or else the story will suffer.You seem to have this belief that Dragon Ball didn't become its own, have a true style, or have a solid style of storytelling until it became a more action focused series. Gonna have to disagree, but if you choose to see it that way that's fine. This is the topic for that after all.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Toriyama-sensei abandoned his roots by the Majin Boo Saga
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
That's how I feel.shreddinghead wrote:Yeah! The collaboration between freeza and his gang and cell is epic.Sinestro wrote:I don't know how popular or unpopular it is, but I love it when they show the villains in Hell.
The only time the series was really a reference to Journey to the West was in the very first story arc. Even by the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc it was its own thing.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Okay wrong words. What I mean is that at the beginning, it had a very basic plot that had no set direction. It was just a light-hearted reliteration of the chinese folktale "Journey of the West" but by DBZ, it's fully-established the direction it was heading to (Sci-fantasy action series where Goku's past comes back to nip him in the bud, and dying a hero along with his sins) and it became it's own thing except the few plot details that pay homage to Superman and Terminator.
I did say the beginning, didn't I? Still, it didn't establish what direction the story was going at during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc as it was still light-hearted.Zephyr wrote:The only time the series was really a reference to Journey to the West was in the very first story arc. Even by the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc it was its own thing.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Okay wrong words. What I mean is that at the beginning, it had a very basic plot that had no set direction. It was just a light-hearted reliteration of the chinese folktale "Journey of the West" but by DBZ, it's fully-established the direction it was heading to (Sci-fantasy action series where Goku's past comes back to nip him in the bud, and dying a hero along with his sins) and it became it's own thing except the few plot details that pay homage to Superman and Terminator.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
