Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[TheMightyOzaru]

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

Goku and Vegeta could have sparred frequently in these 2 years allowing their powers to skyrocket. Vegeta's pride tends not get in the way anymore.

[dbzfan7]

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

My question is why is SSJ Goku putting up a better fight then everyone. SSJ3 is debatable but fighting Bils and matching him blow for blow for even a little bit in SSJ is ridiculous.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If you think Gohan is stronger that's fine but please, don't go around saying "Gohan is best and that's a fact!".

For now, it's a fact. We know that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SS3 Goku in Boo arc. As for the movie, everything is speculation.
Besides, Gohan has all of his dormant power unleashed by Rou Kaioshin, plus a lot more power on top of that (meaning that Ultimate Gohan > Fully Trained Raged SS3 Gohan, IMO). Gohan is stated to have more dormant power than Goku, so I don't believe that Goku can ever reach U. Gohan's power through Super Saiyan 3, which brings Goku's dormant power to its limits.

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

We have barely seen anything from their battles. We know that Birusu is playing with all of them after all.

[Hellspawn28]

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

It could be that Goku always been a deus ex machina character in the DBZ movies expect for DBZ Movie 1, 9 and 11. Toei sure loves making Goku the main winner in nearly everything.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If you think Gohan is stronger that's fine but please, don't go around saying "Gohan is best and that's a fact!".

For now, it's a fact. We know that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SS3 Goku in Boo arc. As for the movie, everything is speculation.
Besides, Gohan has all of his dormant power unleashed by Rou Kaioshin, plus a lot more power on top of that (meaning that Ultimate Gohan > Fully Trained Raged SS3 Gohan, IMO). Gohan is stated to have more dormant power than Goku, so I don't believe that Goku can ever reach U. Gohan's power through Super Saiyan 3, which brings Goku's dormant power to its limits.

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

We have barely seen anything from their battles. We know that Birusu is playing with all of them after all.

Well obviously Gohan during the Buu saga is stronger but that's not what we are discussing. I don't abide by the idea that one has an end limit. That ultimately contradicts Goku's character which is to be able to break any limit. I think you can expand your potential or dormant power, if you will, by training.

[mikey41]

If Ultimate Gohan is in the movie then why is Goku putting up a better fight? Let alone Vegeta putting up a better fight.

My question is why is SSJ Goku putting up a better fight then everyone. SSJ3 is debatable but fighting Bils and matching him blow for blow for even a little bit in SSJ is ridiculous.

Yea, and not only is Goku putting up a better fight but hes putting up a better fight then Ultimate Gohan and Fat Buu together. I know we haven't seen all the scenes but I think we can all expect Gohan to get knocked out of the fight right away just like he was in movie 13.

[dbzfan7]

Well obviously Gohan during the Buu saga is stronger but that's not what we are discussing. I don't abide by the idea that one has an end limit. That ultimately contradicts Goku's character which is to be able to break any limit. I think you can expand your potential or dormant power, if you will, by training.

I believe potential can't expand but can only be realized. I believe they can always get stronger, but they need a new way of doing so. Goku would need train in several new ways to get much stronger. Normal methods such as gravity and weights would have to be super charged to make a difference at this point. Sparring with the same partner also only works for so long. I believe the only way to truly surpass limits is to find new training regiments. Unless Goku somehow found an amazing and quick way to boost power. I don't think he could get too much stronger. Kinda like how he said using the rosat again was pointless.

Yea, and not only is Goku putting up a better fight but hes putting up a better fight then Ultimate Gohan and Fat Buu together. I know we haven't seen all the scenes but I think we can all expect Gohan to get knocked out of the fight right away just like he was in movie 13.

I wouldn't be surprised. I love Goku and all, but they seem to be taking lessons from Goku Time (GT). I hope they keep things consistent though. Seeing the trailer worries me.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That ultimately contradicts Goku's character which is to be able to break any limit.

The theme of Dragon Ball was always to get stronger & stronger, not break limits.

I think you can expand your potential or dormant power, if you will, by training.

That's just your opinion, not a fact.

[Sinestro]

Fan: しかも悟飯は超サイヤ人になる必要性がないんですが。
Besides, Gohan needn't have transformed into a Super Saiyan.

いい加減なGTスタッフもそうでしたが、完全に忘れてましたよね。老界王神の潜在能力解放を。
We, as well as Dragon Ball GT's staff, totally forgot about "Old Kai's Unlock Ability".

This is hilarious. Thank you.

[TheMightyOzaru]

When Goku said the ROSAT was pointless he meant he had a plan and that plan was Gohan. The idea that potential cannot be expanded is rather illogical IMO. Think about. If potential cannot be expanded, Goku's ssj3 power up would be weaker than his other ssj forms after reaching a certain level of strength in his base form. The daizenshuu statement that ssj3 brings out the dormant power of the Saiyans to the max is a rather generic one. The SEG also implies it's a general 4x. Does Gotenks have the same amount of dormant power as Goku. I would imagine not. Ssj3 could likely be referring to the maximum potential of the ssj form itself, that being 400x.

[Insertclevername]

One thing I want to know is why his bang comes out? Since he isn't SSJ in this movie any more (which is awesome!), why would his bang need to come out? I was under the impression that it only comes out in SSJ.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That ultimately contradicts Goku's character which is to be able to break any limit.

The theme of Dragon Ball was always to get stronger & stronger, not break limits.

I think you can expand your potential or dormant power, if you will, by training.

That's just your opinion, not a fact.

You can't get stronger if there is a limit now can ya? I thought not. I'm aware it's my opinion, I never claimed it be fact did I? No I distinctly see the term "I think" in there.

[dbzfan7]

When Goku said the ROSAT was pointless he meant he had a plan and that plan was Gohan. The idea that potential cannot be expanded is rather illogical IMO. Think about. If potential cannot be expanded, Goku's ssj3 power up would be weaker than his other ssj forms after reaching a certain level of strength in his base form.

Toriyama even said Ki is the only way of overcoming your limits. The body can only hold a certain amount of ki. Eventually like Toiryama said the body will reach the limit for how strong it can become just as will how much ki it can hold.

Goku even said going in a second time would just be damaging your body and not training. Hence why Vegeta couldn't surpass him after another years worth of training.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Goku: “It’s quite tough on the body inside there, even when you’re not doing anything. It’s better for me to be able to get plenty of rest.”
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”

In other words going in again would not make much of a difference as training in there again would give small to minimal gains if he went in a second time.

[Influence]

I would love if the last battle went down like this, it'd be epic. It most likely won't happen though.

1. During their second battle in space, Vegeta joins Goku and finally turns into SSJ3 along with Goku.
2. They both tag team Bills as SSJ3 and the fight goes on for a while, but he's still far stronger.
3. They resort to fusion into SSJ3 Gogeta, he is able to put up a fight against Bills.
4. Bills turns the table and reveals his transformation, becoming far stronger than Gogeta and overpowering him.
5. Gogeta is defeated and they're both de-fused back into base form and pummeled even further.
6. Bills does something to trigger Goku's SSJ god transformation (Makes him angry or something)
7. Either the fight is close with Goku winning or he straight up destroys Bills/calms him down so peace is restored.

There'd be 3 new transformations if it were to end like this, and Vegeta definitely deserves SSJ3 so I'm hoping we see this.

I still don't understand how Bills is able to stop SSJ3 Goku with simply a finger and then we later see Goku putting up a fight with him in space as only an SSJ. Only conclusion is that Goku got stronger since the first fight somehow.

Also am new, hello guys.

[TheMightyOzaru]

When Goku said the ROSAT was pointless he meant he had a plan and that plan was Gohan. The idea that potential cannot be expanded is rather illogical IMO. Think about. If potential cannot be expanded, Goku's ssj3 power up would be weaker than his other ssj forms after reaching a certain level of strength in his base form.

Toriyama even said Ki is the only way of overcoming your limits. The body can only hold a certain amount of ki. Eventually like Toiryama said the body will reach the limit for how strong it can become just as will how much ki it can hold.

Goku even said going in a second time would just be damaging your body and not training. Hence why Vegeta couldn't surpass him after another years worth of training.

First off no Toriyama said nothing like that about Ki. What he said was the body had a limit and that limit had to be overcome by Ki. He said nothing about a limitation on Ki. Goku may have said that because maintaining ssj can only get you so powerful.

[Herms]

]

いい加減なGTスタッフもそうでしたが、完全に忘れてましたよね。老界王神の潜在能力解放を。
We, as well as Dragon Ball GT's staff, totally forgot about "Old Kai's Unlock Ability".

It's not "we forgot", it should be "you forgot". Basically, this fan on Twitter is accusing Watanabe of having forgotten about the Elder Kaioshin's power-up, just like the GT staff did, and Watanabe responds by saying that Gohan doesn't actually become a Super Saiyan in the movie. There's a proper translation of the whole thing by Julian on the main site.

There seems to be some confusion about this, so to reiterate: Watanabe didn't call the GT staff "careless" or say that anyone forgot about the Elder Kaioshin's power-up. Rather, a random fan on Twitter said those things. Watanabe then reassured this fan that Gohan would not be Super Saiyan in the movie.

[AnimeMaakuo]

]

いい加減なGTスタッフもそうでしたが、完全に忘れてましたよね。老界王神の潜在能力解放を。
We, as well as Dragon Ball GT's staff, totally forgot about "Old Kai's Unlock Ability".

It's not "we forgot", it should be "you forgot". Basically, this fan on Twitter is accusing Watanabe of having forgotten about the Elder Kaioshin's power-up, just like the GT staff did, and Watanabe responds by saying that Gohan doesn't actually become a Super Saiyan in the movie. There's a proper translation of the whole thing by Julian on the main site.

There seems to be some confusion about this, so to reiterate: Watanabe didn't call the GT staff "careless" or say that anyone forgot about the Elder Kaioshin's power-up. Rather, a random fan on Twitter said those things. Watanabe then reassured this fan that Gohan would not be Super Saiyan in the movie.

Argh! I must have missed that. >.< It was done really fast. Sorry about that.

- Fixed.

[dbzfan7]

When Goku said the ROSAT was pointless he meant he had a plan and that plan was Gohan. The idea that potential cannot be expanded is rather illogical IMO. Think about. If potential cannot be expanded, Goku's ssj3 power up would be weaker than his other ssj forms after reaching a certain level of strength in his base form.

Toriyama even said Ki is the only way of overcoming your limits. The body can only hold a certain amount of ki. Eventually like Toiryama said the body will reach the limit for how strong it can become just as will how much ki it can hold.

Goku even said going in a second time would just be damaging your body and not training. Hence why Vegeta couldn't surpass him after another years worth of training.

First off no Toriyama said nothing like that about Ki. What he said was the body had a limit and that limit had to be overcome by Ki. He said nothing about a limitation on Ki. Goku may have said that because maintaining ssj can only get you so powerful.

Kaioken is the definition of too much ki for your body can strain you. Same applies for everything else. Gokus body can't hold an unlimited amount of ki. His body will or already has hit its limit and so will the amount of ki his body can hold. Unless you believe he can hold an unlimited amount of ki ala fanboys of Broly believe he can. Ki is what overcomes the bodies limit, but the body can only hold a certain amount of ki before it becomes a strain on it.

And no Goku said it because training under the same conditions can only work for so long. It's the same in real life as I bet eventually 10 pound weights became nothing after a while and useless to you. Do you think Goku would get a huge increase training in 100x gravity again. I doubt it as it is now a pointless training regiment unless he ups the gravity.

Anyways lets put another thread in the in-universe section for this so we don't flood the thread.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think the problem with most people is that they place the gap between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Goku too wide.

There is a very wide difference between them. Goku (who had experienced Fusion, and could guess how strong he would become) expected SS Gotenks to be strong enough to defeat Innocent Boo, while at that time he wasn't sure if he could beat Innocent Boo with SS3 (he confirmed that he could after seeing Pure Boo's power). Gotenks got stronger inside the RoSaT, and even achieved SS3 as well, which would make SS3 Gotenks over 4 times stronger than SS3 Goku. SS3 Gotenks was stated to be at least equal to Evil Boo, while Ultimate Gohan was way stronger than Evil Boo. When Evil Boo absorbed Gotenks & Piccolo, he should be about more than 2 times stronger than he was before, and SS3 Gotenks as well (assuming that his absorption works as an addition). That Boo was also way stronger than Ultimate Gohan. This means that the difference between SS3 Goku & U. Gohan is very big, over 5 times I would say. I don't think that Goku can become 5 times stronger in 2 years of training on Earth, because it has never happened before by just training on Earth.

Even with all that in mind its still possible for Goku (who lives for training) to surpass Gohan (who has little to no care for fighting) even if it is just 2 to 3 years. Look at the gap between Piccolo and Raditz in the beginning of Z then Look what happened to piccolo's power in just 6 months to a years worth of training on Earth. He not only got stronger but he became more than twice as strong as Raditz someone who dwarfed him just a year before and was still no match for Nappa.

Piccolo at the Beginning - 416

Raditz - 1,500

Piccolo one year later - 3,500

While it doesn't really matter who's the strongest between the two since Bils stomps both of them, I still have my money on Goku surpassing his son post Boo arc.

[sbk]

It's pathetic how happy it makes me that Gohan won't be Super Saiyan. I mean really... what's wrong with me? Haha.

Lmao, I feel the same way.