Kamiccolo9 wrote:16 did way more damage to Cell than the bug did to him. I'd say he was the stronger one.
I don't know about that. Cell practically tanked the strongest technique 16 could throw at him.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
apex_pretador wrote:Picolo arrived on namek AFTER vegeta & co started to fight freeza / after namek DB's turned to stone.
No,Piccolo arrived on Namek even before Freeza arrives.The part where Vegeta started to powerup against Freeza was right after the part where Piccolo merged with Nail.
Freeza was also suppressed at that point.
Why does it matter ? That just means that Vegeta [Suppressed] < 1st Form Freeza [Suppressed].And Vegeta [Full Power] < 1st Form Freeza [Full Power]
Anyways.I noticed that most of you have Piccolo merging with Kami a 2x boost.But most of you have Piccolo when he arrived on Namek lower than 300,000.Why is that ? Nail states that if Piccolo and Kami become one again.They can win against 1st Form Freeza.
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…
I'm planning to change my list because of this.I used to have Piccolo at 250,000.
Piccolo [Arrival on Namek] : 350,000 --- Merged with Kami [Hypothetical] : 700,000
Freeza [First Form] : 530,000
And also.
Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”
So my new list for Saiyan Arc Piccolo and Nappa would be.
Piccolo : 2,500 --- Merged with Kami [Hypothetical] : 5,000
Nappa : 4,000 --- ''Calmed Down'' : 7,000
I'd say Nappa was 4,000 against the Z Fighters.There's implication that put Nappa below 5,000 but there is also many implications that put him close to Goku.So to clear this mess.I'd follow what Toriyma said in an interview.Nappa probably got stronger while fighting Goku.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables.
ahill1 wrote:What do you think of these power levels?
Namek
Kuririn 285,000
Son Gohan 315,000
~ Enranged (vs 2nd form Freeza) 1,000,000
~ Zenkai 900,000
~ Enranged (vs 3rd form Freeza) 1,600,000
~ Masenko 1,800,000
Krilllin is way too high man. Even gohan is too high. They were implied to be MUCH weaker than suppressed first form freeza.
Piccolo (weighted) 270,000
~ W/o weights 324,000
~ Post fusion with Nail (weighted) 1,250,000
~ W/o weights 1,500,000
Piccolo was shitting himself at suppressed first form freeza. Nail flat-out told him that he'll die, and piccolo knew it.
Vegeta 480,000
~ Zenkai 2,400,000
Seems OK
Freeza (1st form) 530,000
~ 2nd form (initial) 1,060,000
~ 2nd form (vs Gohan) 1,200,000
~ 2nd form (full power) 1,400,000
~ 3rd form 1,850,000
~ Final form (initial) 2,400,000
~ Final form (speedup) 3,250,000
~ 50% 70,000,000
~ 70% 98,000,000
~ 100% 140,000,000
Initial final form is too low IMO.
Son Goku 3,000,000
~ Kaioken x10 30,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 60,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 150,000,000
OK
Trunks saga
King Cold 120,000,000
Too high, way too high.
Future Trunks 4,800,000
~ Super Saiyan 240,000,000
Wayyyyyy too high. He was directly compared equated to Namek goku.[.quote]
Son Goku 5,600,000
~ Super Saiyan 280,000,000[/quote] Way too high. Goku didn't even have the time to learn techniques. At best, he might've trained a little. Also, no power-up was noted by gohan.
Zombie wrote:Can I get feedback for these numbers?
Spoiler:
Cell [Imperfect form]: 270,000,000
-- After energy absorptions: 480,000,000
-- Semi-Perfect form: 675,000,000
-- Full power: 800,000,000
-- Perfect form: 925,000,000
-- Power up [vs Vegeta|Trunks]: 1,400,000,000
-- Power weighted form: 2,100,000,000
Future Trunks: 13,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 650,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Grade 2: 950,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Grade 3: 1,600,000,000
Vegeta: 14,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 700,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Grade 2: 1,000,000,000
Artificial Human No. 16: 480,000,000
Thanks for any feedback.
Seems legit.
Interestingly, my numbers put piccolo in cell games at EXACT same value, 480 million , which you used for #16.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
Why does it matter ? That just means that Vegeta [Suppressed] < 1st Form Freeza [Suppressed].And Vegeta [Full Power] < 1st Form Freeza [Full Power]
never mind.
Anyways , on next topic:
Anyways.I noticed that most of you have Piccolo merging with Kami a 2x boost.But most of you have Piccolo when he arrived on Namek lower than 300,000.Why is that ? Nail states that if Piccolo and Kami become one again.They can win against 1st Form Freeza.
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…
I'm planning to change my list because of this.I used to have Piccolo at 250,000.
Piccolo [Arrival on Namek] : 350,000 --- Merged with Kami [Hypothetical] : 700,000
Freeza [First Form] : 530,000
And also.
Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”
So my new list for Saiyan Arc Piccolo and Nappa would be.
Piccolo : 2,500 --- Merged with Kami [Hypothetical] : 5,000
I don't think we can use the same boost for piccolo & Nailccolo. Nail-piccolo in android arc was one million times stronger than Kami. I think the closer the powers, the bigger the boost.
Goku-gohan potara merging was implied to be about 2x boost. He was said to "MAY not need super saiyan where gohan was about 2-3 thousand times stronger than base goku, and kibitoshin seems like 2-3x boost.
Also, if you use 2x, then you must use it on BoZ piccolo, who was below 1000, which will result in below 2000 power level for son of kataz. Even better, use the 2x for DAIMAO and Kami. Daimao was like what? 200 in young age, and kami was close to 300 when he trained goku. I think at best, kami can be about 500 or so in his young age.
At best that would put him at 1400 in that case, around raditz level. I don't think that counts as being able to handle saiyans. Same for namek arc kamiccolo. I think 4x boost works better for saiyan & namek arcs.
(2600 + 300) x 4 = 11,600
(150,000 + 300) x 4 = 601,200
However, android arc is different case, due to nail's presence and power gap:
(100 M) x 2 = 200 M or wherever your numbers put him at.
Oh wait, did I mention that piccolo was shitting himself at the power of suppressed dinosaur Freeza.
Nappa : 4,000 --- ''Calmed Down'' : 7,000
I'd say Nappa was 4,000 against the Z Fighters.There's implication that put Nappa below 5,000 but there is also many implications that put him close to Goku.So to clear this mess.I'd follow what Toriyma said in an interview.Nappa probably got stronger while fighting Goku.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables.
Thoughts ?
But nappa was never pushed to limits against Z fighters:
Tien - He cleanly rips his arm. He TANKS KIKOHO.
Chiaotzu - He tanks blowing up, with a ki shield.
Gohan - He got kicked around ONCE when he was off-guard. He just punched away the strongest blast from gohan at 2800 by a mere punch, and his hand only slightly stung.
Piccolo - The strategist of U7 found him open to attacks when he's off-guard, and punched him when he was focused on someone else. Later, he uses almost all his ki in a last-ditch effort in a blast on nappa, and it barely burnt his back slightly. Got OH-KO'd by nappa.
Krillin - He nearly killed him with a keinzan. He dodged him once, hit him once when focused on someone else and off-guard. He used his full powered scattering attack and nappa flat-out tanked. Got nearly killed with a ki blast not even hitting him, but landing nearby.
Not to mention that nappa was never serious the entire time, and just toying around with them, and he was ealing with multiple enemies at once.
GOKU : At first, goku makes him look like fool, but later, nappa manages to get calm and serious, and get a close fight out of goku. He also worried him with his full-powered attack.
Nappa could one-shot any of Z fightrs but goku couldn't one-shot nappa.
ahill1 wrote:What gap do you guys have between Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga) and Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)?
vegeta is 120 % of trunks i.e. 20% higher.
IF vegeta is 6, trunks is 5. Vegeta can one-shot him with a galick gun or BBA.
This Gap decreases to about 5%-10% after 1st rosat, and ~0% after second rosat.
I think a 20% gap is way too much...
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Tenshinhan: “Th-this is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…”
Accroding to Tenshinhan, the three SSJ are on the same range of power.
SSJ Trunks
-- Start of the Buu arc: 19,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 21,000,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 47,500,000,000
SSJ Goten
-- Start of the Buu arc: 17,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 20,000,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 45,000,000,000
Piccolo
-- Start of the Buu arc: 12,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 12,000,000,000
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
