Super Buu vs Kid Buu

[Bussani]

Funny how people completely change someone's quote to fit their belief.

Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

How did anyone change that quote? Here's some other quotes from the English manga.

Kaioshin: "Two were killed quickly... The gods of the north and west... Then the strongest, the burly god of the south, was the next to go...
Elder Kaioshin: "...And Buu turned into that muscle man we just saw?" <- referring to "Buff Buu" here, obviously.
Kaioshin: "...Yes... The next to be absorbed was the chubby by gentle Great Lord of Lords. Before this, Buu was pure evil, a failure that Bibidi himself couldn't handle. But afterwards, he calmed down to the point that Bibidi was able to bring him under control..."

This seems to imply that it was the Dai Kaioshin who tamed him, if you ask me.

[Rocketman]

The only times a Buu gets hurt is when Good Buu fights Kid Buu and when Super Buu fights Gohan.

Vegetto completely obliterates part of Super Buu.

[rereboy]

The only times a Buu gets hurt is when Good Buu fights Kid Buu and when Super Buu fights Gohan.

Vegetto completely obliterates part of Super Buu.

Ah yes, I forgot Vegetto VS Gohan-Buu.

That fight also follows the logic of only a much more powerful opponent being able to actually hurt a Buu.

If there's no plural you can't say they definitely were talking about both, since it works both ways. They don't say anything about him becoming weaker or more controllable after only absorbing the south Kaioshin. Just that after he absorbed the fat one he calmed down.

You said yourself, you can't say definitely each one or both they are talking about, yet you concluded they're talking about Dai Kaioshin.

Since they don't specify each Kaioshin is safe to assume they're talking about both absorbed by Buu.

No. South Kaioshin only increased his power. Dai Kaioshin was the only absorption that actually changed his nature and restricted his power, as Kaboom has said.

As for wrath buu (do you mean Grey Buu?) he is all that was Evil in Fat Evil Buu. I don`t see any logic for him to be restricted in power.

[Senzu_Bean]

How did anyone change that quote?

Considering the quote I posted is clearly referring to Chibi Buu and people are claiming is referring to Fat Buu. That is how!

[rereboy]

The quote is talking about Kid Buu in relation to Fat Evil Buu, only. It basically compares the two.

And Bussani has already quoted what the english manga exactly says in that moment.

[Dayspring]

Since they don't specify each Kaioshin is safe to assume they're talking about both absorbed by Buu.

Actually, its safe to assume they meant the one they directly referrenced. Considering that 1) no comment was made about Buu's power dropping after absorbing the South Kaioshin and 2) Super Buu's power increased when he became Buff Buu it's 99% certain that only the Dai Kaioshin weakened him.

I was never aware this was a debate. 1) The reasons Xyex mentioned. 2) We see Buff Boo's power is an increase from Super Boo and THEN we learn Buff is merely Kid after absorbing South Kaioshin. When he reverts to Kid Boo, everybody breathes a sigh of relief because of how his power is going back down. This prooves that South Kaioshins presence strengthed Boo, not weakened.

[Senzu_Bean]

The quote is talking about Kid Buu in relation to Fat Evil Buu, only. It basically compares the two.

And Bussani has already quoted what the english manga exactly says in that moment.

The quote is referring to Chibi Buu only.

"Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…
Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

See the bold words?! That's Chibi Buu they are talking about, not Fat Buu or whatever.

When he reverts to Kid Boo, everybody breathes a sigh of relief because of how his power is going back down.

Never happened!

[Savage68]

Senzu, I'm pretty sure the 'sigh of relief' thing was only a figure of speech.

Goku & Vegeta were visibly far less concerned after Buu's transformation into Kid was complete, in stark contrast to their expressions when Super Buu's initial reversion to the 'Buff' Buu was going on.

[rereboy]

The quote is talking about Kid Buu in relation to Fat Evil Buu, only. It basically compares the two.

And Bussani has already quoted what the english manga exactly says in that moment.

The quote is referring to Chibi Buu only.

"Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…
Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

See the bold words?! That's Chibi Buu they are talking about, not Fat Buu or whatever.

When he reverts to Kid Boo, everybody breathes a sigh of relief because of how his power is going back down.

Never happened!

They are talking about how Kid buu became after he absorbed the Kaioshins... With the South Kaioshin he became even stronger, with the Dai Kaioshin, his nature changed and he calmed down and his power went down.

Therefore, they are talking about Kid Buu in relation to Fat Evil Buu (and also in relation to Muscle Buu). That much is obvious.

And Bussani has already pointed out to you what the english manga exactly says right before that moment:

Kaioshin: "Two were killed quickly... The gods of the north and west... Then the strongest, the burly god of the south, was the next to go...
Elder Kaioshin: "...And Buu turned into that muscle man we just saw?"
Kaioshin: "...Yes... The next to be absorbed was the chubby by gentle Great Lord of Lords. Before this, Buu was pure evil, a failure that Bibidi himself couldn't handle. But afterwards, he calmed down to the point that Bibidi was able to bring him under control..."

I don`t have the manga here right now but assuming those quotes you said are from the english manga please note that in doesn`t say that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu of all. It says its the most troublesome. Why? Because he is the wildest. The most dangerous. And Elder Kaioshin had good reason to say that, he destroyed the Earth moments later because he felt like it...
And the last line is only comparing him with Fat Evil Buu, because that was the only absorption that made him weaker.

[verto]

[Kid/Chibi Buu is] the most troublesome. Why? Because he is the wildest. The most dangerous. And Elder Kaioshin had good reason to say that, he destroyed the Earth moments later because he felt like it...
And the last line is only comparing him with Fat Evil Buu, because that was the only absorption that made him weaker.

I've never understood how people could misinterpret this quote. What rereboy has written here is what was obviously intended. Even if the point about him being dangerous because he's the personification of evil wasn't there, it would still be up to interpretation since strength isn't mentioned once (in comparison to Super Buu anyway).

[Senzu_Bean]

The quote I posted was translated by Herms. And again, Chibi Buu was the one who too lowered his power through absorption. Not the muscled Buu but the "this small Majin Boo now". Heck, just look at the quote!

And, again, there isn't nothing that suggest Buu got stronger after absorbed South Kaioshin.

[verto]

Kaioshin: "...Yes... The next to be absorbed was the chubby by gentle Great Lord of Lords. Before this, Buu was pure evil, a failure that Bibidi himself couldn't handle. But afterwards, he calmed down to the point that Bibidi was able to bring him under control..."

It clearly states that Buu was pure evil and didn't get weaker until the Grand Supreme Kai/Dai Kaioshin was absorbed. It also heavily implies that he never got weaker until this time, and I assume Buu would only absorb people strong enough to increase his power, that worked until he got to the GSK whos gentle and pure nature conflicted with Buu's evil nature and weakened him.

[Senzu_Bean]

Again and last time:

"Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

His (Chibi Buu) heart which he (Chibi Buu) obtained by lowering his (Chibi Buu) power through absorption, has returned to normal (to Chibi Buu)...

Who did "this small Majin Boo now" absorbed? Yep, he absorbed South Kaioshin, not Dai Kaioshin.

[Amigo Ten]

He absorbed them both. That's like saying Super Boo never absorbed Gohan because it was actually Piccolo Boo that did it. All that "His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption" says is that Boo gained a heart and lowered his power without specifying which absorption. But it's definitely clear that the fat Kaio gave him a heart and lowered his power, while it's not clear that the burly Kaio did either of those.

[Xyex]

The quote is referring to Chibi Buu only.

No, it's not.

"Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…

Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

See the bold words?! That's Chibi Buu they are talking about, not Fat Buu or whatever.

Except that they are talking about Fat Buu also. See the italicized words? That's a reference to Fat Buu. You know, the one who's power was lowered by absorbing the Dai Kaioshin?

Never happened!

Um, yes, it did, as has already been shown. Goku said Super Buu was too much for them, they freaked over Buff Buu, Goku then refused fusion against Kid Buu.

Kaioshin: "Two were killed quickly... The gods of the north and west... Then the strongest, the burly god of the south, was the next to go...

Elder Kaioshin: "...And Buu turned into that muscle man we just saw?"

Note that the "muscle man we just saw" was stronger tha Super Buu. Kaioshin makes no "but not as strong" comment in reference to him which means since Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu who's weaker than Buff Buu that South Kaioshin boosted Buu's power.

Kaioshin: "...Yes... The next to be absorbed was the chubby by gentle Great Lord of Lords. Before this, Buu was pure evil, a failure that Bibidi himself couldn't handle. But afterwords, he calmed down to the point that Bibidi was able to bring him under control..."

Note, again, that Kaioshin is talking only about after the Dai Kaioshin was absorbed did Buu calm down and stop being pure evil.

And again, Chibi Buu was the one who too lowered his power through absorption. Not the muscled Buu but the "this small Majin Boo now". Heck, just look at the quote!

Look at the quotes again yourself, you're missing the part where Kaioshin says that Buff Buu was still pure evil. Kaioshin is saying that the EVIL Buu lowered his power through absorption. Buff Buu was still evil.

And, again, there isn't nothing that suggest Buu got stronger after absorbed South Kaioshin.

Goku said Super Buu was too much for them, they freaked over Buff Buu, Goku then refused fusion against Kid Buu.

I think that makes it pretty obvious.

His (Evil Buu's) heart which he (Evil Buu) obtained by lowering his (Evil Buu's) power through absorption, has returned to normal (to being pure Evil)...

I fixed this for you.

Who did "Evil Buu" absorbed? Yep, he absorbed the Dai Kaioshin, as he already had the South Kaioshin absorbed.

Fixed this, too.

[VegettoEX]

Please use the actual quote function and/or credit where the quote is coming from. It's very easy to do, and there's no reason why it should be left blank.

Is anyone else peering in on this conversation and seeing absolutely nothing constructive going on? It's just circles of "It means this" going into "No, you're reading it wrong" going into "Nuh uh" going into "Yeah huh". These kinds of conversations are absolutely unwelcome here. If you can't follow the rules and avoid these pointless back-and-forths, the moderators simply will not allow any further conversation on the matter. It's all just arrogant dick-waving strength discussions that seem to be going nowhere.

[Senzu_Bean]

Is anyone else peering in on this conversation and seeing absolutely nothing constructive going on?

That is synonymous with "Majin Buu strength". Everytime someone debates who's the stronger Majin Buu this always happen.

That's why I don't go any further replying to this topic.

[Godo]

Myself, I don't see why there is something to discuss here. For me it was really clear. Maybe that has got to do with me not picking favorite villains or favorite forms of them.
When it comes to Buu, the problem with picking favorites becomes a bigger problem. If you like Kid Buu more, you'll try to read the quotes to his favor, and if you like Super Buu more, you read the quotes only to his favor.

I can try to add my opinion on the matter, but that won't end that well, since it will pull the "debate" further into the same direction, which is nothing I desire.

But in the end, I think we all can agree on that Buu, regardless of his forms, was a horrifying opponent, without any goals, bent on destruction. His power and regeneration made him almost impossible to defeat, making even the strongest fighters useless. Except for Vegetto.

[Senzu_Bean]

Myself, I don't see why there is something to discuss here. For me it was really clear. Maybe that has got to do with me not picking favorite villains or favorite forms of them.

It isn't that simple. I don't have any favorite character in the whole Dragonball world and is still no clear to me.

[Xyex]

Myself, I don't see why there is something to discuss here. For me it was really clear. Maybe that has got to do with me not picking favorite villains or favorite forms of them.
When it comes to Buu, the problem with picking favorites becomes a bigger problem. If you like Kid Buu more, you'll try to read the quotes to his favor, and if you like Super Buu more, you read the quotes only to his favor.

My favorite's Kid Buu and I still realize he's the 4th weakest.

I think the main issue comes from the fact that Buu doesn't follow the same formula as most other enemies. IE: Weakest Form, Stronger Form, Strongest Form, Beyond Strongest Form. The only ones who come close are Vegeta (Oozaru Vegeta's stronger than tailless Vegeta), Ginyu (he's stronger in his own body than in Goku's), and Cell (reverting Semi-Perfect, even if he does get a "Beyond Strongest" out of it). People are used to villains only growing in power, not going backwards.