Is filler as simple as just that: it's filler?

[ABED]

Not dishonest. He didn't tell her he wouldn't have Gohan fight. Not even close to telling Piccolo "I can't win".

It was dishonest. He could have easily told her that he was during what's best for Earth and just flew away. Besides I honestly starting to doubt Goku could have 100% killed Fat Boo.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because Gohan comes back to the fight after he gets insulted doesn't make that the reason. It's illogical, Gohan cowers when Nappa tries to kill his allies but when Nappa says some mean words, that's what gets Gohan to stay?

It does makes it the reason cause had Nappa not said anything Gohan would have walked away with his head down. Like how he was during before Nappa insulted him.

What's the point, either way she's gonna react irrationally, she's Chichi. It's still not dishonest. He could've told her everything, but just because he didn't doesn't make it dishonest. He didn't say he wouldn't.

I agree that Goku couldn't have defeated Fat Buu, which is why I think he was honest when he told Piccolo, but was made a liar later on when Toriyama had him say he could.

It doesn't make a lick of sense. First off, the moment is filler if I recall, and secondly, Nappa throws a fireball at him. That is way more likely to get to Gohan than namecalling.

[ABED]

Close, but no cigar. It wasn't an outright lie, and not one that put the world in danger either.

Yeah, during the battle with the Saiyans he developed. The filler however did nothing.

It showed us Gohan's development. It didn't just go from point A to Z. There was a lot in the middle. Gohan didn't just progress as the fight went along, there was a big change between Raditz kidnapping him and the start of the battle.

You ever think you just don't understand Goku. He's not Superman.

Why is that the go to response? Did I ever claim he was the paragon of virtue or make a Superman comparison? No, I'm simply saying that Toriyama wrote him two different ways because he didn't plan ahead.

The more virtuous person wouldn't have let Freeza or Vegeta or Piccolo live.

[dbzfan7]

It showed us Gohan's development. It didn't just go from point A to Z. There was a lot in the middle. Gohan didn't just progress as the fight went along, there was a big change between Raditz kidnapping him and the start of the battle.

Yeah, it's called spending time with Piccolo, not some brats and a robot.

Why is that the go to response? Did I ever claim he was the paragon of virtue or make a Superman comparison? No, I'm simply saying that Toriyama wrote him two different ways because he didn't plan ahead.

Toriyama years later still writes Goku the same way he did last time in the Boo saga. That alone should tell you that he didn't make a mistake. He re-read the manga and thought that's how Goku acts, and kept that writing for BOG. It's one of Goku's lovable traits that no matter what he does people will still love him.

[ABED]

He didn't spend that entire year with Piccolo. In the first six months he learned to use his powers.

That alone should tell you that he didn't make a mistake.

That doesn't tell me he didn't make a mistake when the inconsistency is within that one arc. Goku can't defeat Buu when the plot demands it, but can when the writer needs him to.

[DBZAOTA482]

The more virtuous person wouldn't have let Freeza or Vegeta or Piccolo live.

I think the virtuous person would let Piccolo live just not with a secondary ulterior motive in mind.

[ABED]

The more virtuous person wouldn't have let Freeza or Vegeta or Piccolo live.

I think the virtuous person would let Piccolo live just not with a secondary ulterior motive in mind.

I don't find mercy virtuous. Piccolo didn't deserve leniency, he was dangerous.

At least with Goku getting what he wants, the hero is driven to make himself better, which has added benefits to the world at large.

[dbzfan7]

He didn't spend that entire year with Piccolo. In the first six months he learned to use his powers.

The first six months were for survival, he didn't develop his powers until he trained with Piccolo. We got worthless filler that should have showed have been replaced with Gohan and Piccolo filler, not stupid kids and a robot. Gohan and Piccolo filler would have done much better for development.

That doesn't tell me he didn't make a mistake when the inconsistency is within that one arc. Goku can't defeat Buu when the plot demands it, but can when the writer needs him to.

Goku was pretty ambiguous and dodgy. I don't see how Goku lying is such a bad thing. He's not a saint.

[ABED]

He didn't spend that entire year with Piccolo. In the first six months he learned to use his powers.

The first six months were for survival, he didn't develop his powers until he trained with Piccolo. We got worthless filler that should have showed have been replaced with Gohan and Piccolo filler, not stupid kids and a robot. Gohan and Piccolo filler would have done much better for development.

That doesn't tell me he didn't make a mistake when the inconsistency is within that one arc. Goku can't defeat Buu when the plot demands it, but can when the writer needs him to.

Goku was pretty ambiguous and dodgy. I don't see how Goku lying is such a bad thing. He's not a saint.

He did develop his powers during those six months. He learned to harnass them.

I'm not making him out to be a saint, but being honest fits with his characters. It fits with his lack of tact and why would he lie? What is he attempting to evade or gain?

[TheGmGoken]

What's the point, either way she's gonna react irrationally, she's Chichi. It's still not dishonest. He could've told her everything, but just because he didn't doesn't make it dishonest. He didn't say he wouldn't.

Cause he didn't tell her the trtuh. He just flew away. Dishonest. If someone ask a murder did he murder someone and the murder just runs away. What the first then you're going to think.

I agree that Goku couldn't have defeated Fat Buu, which is why I think he was honest when he told Piccolo, but was made a liar later on when Toriyama had him say he could.

He had a reason to lie. He said the kids having the potential to surpass him. They even have fusion and MYSTIC. Someone the kids fucked it up. Hence why I think Goku gave up that crap and just want someone stronger than himself for a challenge.

It doesn't make a lick of sense. First off, the moment is filler if I recall, and secondly, Nappa throws a fireball at him. That is way more likely to get to Gohan than namecalling.

Since we're talking about filler. I brought up other fillers. The filler during Gohan's training supposedly made him "brave". But he was ready to walk away from the fight. He only jumped back in because of an insult.

It showed us Gohan's development. It didn't just go from point A to Z. There was a lot in the middle. Gohan didn't just progress as the fight went along, there was a big change between Raditz kidnapping him and the start of the battle.

Gohan had Development in it yes. To bad it was a lie and just resorted back into pussy Gohan. As I said. I liked the filler. Just later fillers contradicts it. Gohan made HUGE progress during the Saiyan fight. Not the training for the fight,

No, I'm simply saying that Toriyama wrote him two different ways because he didn't plan ahead.

He wrote him fine. He wanted his SONS to take his place. Goku's dead. He doesn't want to save the Earth while he is dead. THe ending of Cell Arc made Gohan the hero. Once the kids failed him Goku realize he just needs someone stronger than him so he can challenge himself. Now that Goku is alive again.

Goku can't defeat Buu when the plot demands it, but can when the writer needs him to.

The plot never demands it. Goku lied so the next generation can figh. Not a DEAD MAN

but being honest fits with his characters. It fits with his lack of tact and why would he lie? What is he attempting to evade or gain?

Goku isn't 100% honest all the time. He's unintentional blunt at times yes. But he has lied before. He lied so the kids could fight. He SAID that in the manga

[ABED]

The plot never demands it. Goku lied so the next generation can figh. Not a DEAD MAN

Then why not just say that? Actually he did say that, in fact he told Piccolo right afterwards that even if he could win, he would want the kids to do it. It was a lie brought on by a retcon.

Cause he didn't tell her the trtuh. He just flew away. Dishonest. If someone ask a murder did he murder someone and the murder just runs away. What the first then you're going to think.

He didn't tell her anything. At worst, he evaded an unpleasant conversation. Still not a lie.

Are you honestly comparing Goku not telling Chichi his plan to a murderer evading capture? If anything, by running away, the murderer is telling you he's guilty.

[dbzfan7]

He did develop his powers during those six months. He learned to harnass them.

I'm not making him out to be a saint, but being honest fits with his characters. It fits with his lack of tact and why would he lie? What is he attempting to evade or gain?

A little yes as he had to survive. He didn't get an actual understanding until he trained with Piccolo.

So the next generation can take over. He can't save earth while he's dead.

[TheGmGoken]

Then why not just say that? Actually he did say that, in fact he told Piccolo right afterwards that even if he could win, he would want the kids to do it. It was a lie brought on by a retcon.

So you want Goku to tell Piccolo that he could have beaten Boo but didn't because he wanted the kids to do it? Okay tell someone this. I could have killed the killer but I wanted my son to kill the killer. See how they react(Not in real life. Like in a video game people take seriously)

He didn't tell her anything. At worst, he evaded an unpleasant conversation. Still not a lie.

Still dishonest though....

Are you honestly comparing Goku not telling Chichi his plan to a murderer evading capture? If anything, by running away, the murderer is telling you he's guilty.

Exactly. Goku could have easily told Chi Chi and just flew away just like how a killer could say he did kill him then run. But that would be telling on yourself.

[ABED]

Then why not just say that? Actually he did say that, in fact he told Piccolo right afterwards that even if he could win, he would want the kids to do it. It was a lie brought on by a retcon.

So you want Goku to tell Piccolo that he could have beaten Boo but didn't because he wanted the kids to do it? Okay tell someone this. I could have killed the killer but I wanted my son to kill the killer. See how they react(Not in real life. Like in a video game people take seriously)

He didn't tell her anything. At worst, he evaded an unpleasant conversation. Still not a lie.

Still dishonest though....

Are you honestly comparing Goku not telling Chichi his plan to a murderer evading capture? If anything, by running away, the murderer is telling you he's guilty.

Exactly. Goku could have easily told Chi Chi and just flew away just like how a killer could say he did kill him then run. But that would be telling on yourself.

It's not dishonest. Just because he could have told her, he's not required to. Chichi is so irrational, and he had to leave. Goku owes her nothing and unlike the case with the murder, Goku isn't evading the consequences of being evil.

He didn't hide unpleasant truths from Piccolo before, why now? He didn't hide that he wanted to fight the cyborgs depsite being able to stop them beforehand, and knowing what would happen if they didn't. He didn't lie to Kuririn about his reasons for letting Piccolo or Vegeta go. Granted they were there to witness it, but I don't see why that should matter. Goku has nothing to gain by lying to his friends.

[TheGmGoken]

It's not dishonest. Just because he could have told her, he's not required to.

It is dishonest. He could have easily said he was doing what's best for the Earth and flew away. Chi Chi would just faint and Ox King would do his thing.

Chichi is so irrational, and he had to leave. Goku owes her nothing and unlike the case with the murder, Goku isn't evading the consequences of being evil.

So a mother worried about her son's life is irrational? A mother doesn't have the right to know if her son MIGHT die. Goku was being dishonest. End of story.

[dbzfan7]

It's not dishonest. Just because he could have told her, he's not required to.

I hope you don't become a parent then. Gohan is Chi Chi's son and she has every damn right to know what he will be put through. A mother has every right to know what their 10 year old son is doing.

[DBZAOTA482]

It's not dishonest. Just because he could have told her, he's not required to. Chichi is so irrational, and he had to leave. Goku owes her nothing and unlike the case with the murder, Goku isn't evading the consequences of being evil.

Wouldn't this have made a sound argument 2 arcs earlier?

[soulnova]

I also enjoyed the scene where Gohan fights Vegeta after they get off Namek when Vegeta was insulting Goku. Thought it added to Gohan's character a lot.

I found that scene to be horrible filler. The very next episode Vegeta is standing right there by the tree and suggests to bring the souls of Krillin and Goku to Earth to be resurrected and Gohan offers him his hand to thank him, which Vegeta slaps away nonchalantly. They broke off from canon in ways even my 10 year old sister asked me wtf just happened.

[Revolution]

I also enjoyed the scene where Gohan fights Vegeta after they get off Namek when Vegeta was insulting Goku. Thought it added to Gohan's character a lot.

I found that scene to be horrible filler. The very next episode Vegeta is standing right there by the tree and suggests to bring the souls of Krillin and Goku to Earth to be resurrected and Gohan offers him his hand to thank him, which Vegeta slaps away nonchalantly. They broke off from canon in ways even my 10 year old sister asked me wtf just happened.

Yeah I couldn't agree more in regards to that filler to be honest... I liked the added filler where Raditz explained the ways of the Saiyans to Goku like showing him being sent to Earth etc..

[KentalSSJ6]

Didnt King Kai explain the majority of the Saiyan history to Goku and we get that what if image of Goku in Saiyan armor?

[TheGmGoken]

Didnt King Kai explain the majority of the Saiyan history to Goku and we get that what if image of Goku in Saiyan armor?

Yup. Even though the animation or the art work made Goku look awkward as fuck in Saiyan Armour.